Who changed it to 20%

[ChiliPepr]

I agree that "anyone" could be a server... I completely disagree that anyone could be a "good" server. After living and working in Boston and then moving to the suburbs, there is an absolute difference between servers that do it for a living and those who do it for cash.


I start out at 20% if the service is average I may drop it to 15% and round up to nearest 5. If I go out to dinner with someone that will only tip 10% for good service I will make up the difference and then no go to dinner with them again. Only invite them over or go to their place.


Do people realize that out of the tips a server receives they take a portion of that and tip out the bartenders and the bussers? Also if a restaurant has food runners, they get tipped out as well.

 

[Music Lover]

Don't believe everything you read on reddit

Canada Revenue Agency states that the employer has no legal right to direct tips:

"Direct tips are paid directly by the customer to the employee. The employer has no control over the tip amount or its distribution. The employer is merely a conduit for the tip from the customer to the employee.The following are some examples of direct tips:
- a customer leaves money on the table at the end of the meal and the server keeps the whole amount
- a guest gives a tip directly to a bellhop, door person, car attendant, porter, etc.
- the employees and not the employer decide how the tips are pooled or shared among employees
- a customer includes an amount for a tip when paying the bill by credit or debit card and the employer returns the tip amount in cash to the employee at the end of the shift. In exceptional situations the cash tips could be paid out the day after, for example, if there was not enough available cash on hand"

The employer is allowed to share "controlled tips". Controlled tips are mandatory tips added to bills. As far as I know very few places have mandatory tips...but those still have to give a cut to the server, and that doesn't prevent people from giving them a direct tip.

 

[RobbieB]

Of course tipping is optional, you don't have to do it and the police won't arrest you for not tipping.

So feel free to stiff all servers. Pinch those pennies. Tighten that wad. Live large!

 

[jkern]

I still believe that 15% is the standard tip. I usually tip about 18%, sometimes higher when I'm pleased with the service. If the service is atrocious, I will tip zero.

 

[sengsational]

Given that there are instances where a formerly tip-based establishment changed over to a non- tip protocol, there should be enough data to ascertain the true market rate for jobs that received tip income. This presumes that the employees and management worked out a deal that was about the same to each party, before and after the change over. I wonder if there are any case studies with actual numbers. The two jobs are a bit different, though. The tipped server job has an element of risk; you're not sure what your hourly rate will come to when you get hired. I imagine management would predict high totals, and other servers maybe have a more realistic total. But the wage only server doesn't need to worry about it. There's still risk in not getting enough hours, but knowing the hourly rate might attract a different kind of employee. I recall once I was offered a job where part of my salary was a percentage of revenue. It was a very complicated formula, so I asked around and learned that one threshold was pretty much guaranteed. That level was just a bit under the other pay scale option, so I went the commission route. Wow, I got way off track! I'm glad everyone is too busy arguing about how generous or cheap they are to notice my ramble.

 

[cathy63]

Given that there are instances where a formerly tip-based establishment changed over to a non- tip protocol, there should be enough data to ascertain the true market rate for jobs that received tip income. This presumes that the employees and management worked out a deal that was about the same to each party, before and after the change over. I wonder if there are any case studies with actual numbers...

Not sure if this counts as an actual case study, but here are a couple of interviews (audio and transcripts) with Danny Meyer just as he started the no-tip policy at his restaurants: The No-Tipping Point (Ep. 239) - Freakonomics Freakonomics and a few years later: Why Does Tipping Still Exist? (Ep. 396) - Freakonomics Freakonomics He has some really interesting observations.

 

[wanderingwheelz]

I’m not famous by any stretch, but as long-time business owners my wife and I are well known in our area, including many of the servers at local restaurants. We never tip less than 25% (usually more) when we dine locally figuring it’s a business expense, anyway.

Out of town we tip traditionally with the baseline being 20%.

 

[Amethyst]

That is interesting. When it mentioned Uber, it reminded me of something I've been wondering.

I always tip the Uber driver 10%. I give cash tips, rather than using the app, because I suppose people prefer cash in hand to money they have to wait for.

But now I wonder: obviously, Uber checks app data to see if drivers get tips and if so, how much. Would it factor this data into each driver's employee rating? If so, then I would want to use the app.

Not sure if this counts as an actual case study, but here are a couple of interviews (audio and transcripts) with Danny Meyer just as he started the no-tip policy at his restaurants: The No-Tipping Point (Ep. 239) - Freakonomics Freakonomics and a few years later: Why Does Tipping Still Exist? (Ep. 396) - Freakonomics Freakonomics He has some really interesting observations.

 

[BeachOrCity]

In Europe many restaurants are moving to app based ordering. No wait staff

To dine there you have to have a smart phone. You order on the app and give your table number. The food is then delivered fairly quickly. Works great.

Frankly while it has some problems (including discrimination against people who tend not to have smart phones) I think this is the way to go. They should just allow you to order and put at the counter if you do t have smart phone.

No one tips in Europe much, but if casual restaurants in USA go this way I think tipping would minimal..... or maybe wishful thinking.

 

[Midpack]

If tipping is so bad in so many ways, shouldn't somebody try to stop it? Indeed they should, and they are. I first got interested in this topic after wandering into Seattle Coffee Works, a cafe and coffee tasting room near Pike Place Market. There's a sign outside explaining that they have a no tipping policy and that they pay their employees fair wages. It turns out they're part of a no-tipping movement whose most high-profile proponent is billionaire restaurateur Danny Meyer, founder of Shake Shack and Gramercy Tavern, among many others. Meyer has eliminated tipping at 11 of his restaurants. And celebrity chef David Chang opened Momofuku Nishi as a no-tip restaurant in New York in 2016.

But within a few months, Chang was forced to change his policy and begin accepting tips at Momofuku Nishi. The same thing happened to the Joe's Crab Shack chain, which eliminated tips at 18 restaurants but wound up reversing that policy at most of them. Why? Because if you get rid of tips and start paying a fair wage, the only way to pay for it is either by raising prices or adding an automatic service charge to every check. Even though most would have paid the same total with a tip, diners balked at the higher prices or extra charges. In fact, no-tipping restaurants found themselves faced with more negative online reviews than before they instituted the policy.

That points up a fundamental problem with the no-tipping movement: Eliminating tips is a great idea, but it will only be feasible once more restaurants are doing it. As one restaurant owner put it, "It's kind of like competing in sports without performance-enhancing drugs. It's the right thing to do but it doesn't work if you are the only one."

And it’s FAR easier to adopt a no tip policy at a (famous) upscale restaurant. There’s no way it could happen at an ordinary value restaurant without blanket legislation. Customers kill it off when restaurant owners try it.

And some of us here, self included, didn’t know this:

...as of last year, it's illegal for restaurant owners to pool these tips and distribute them among servers and other employees unless they pay everyone the full--not tipped--minimum wage.

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/no-tipping-tip-free-restaurants-discrimination-harassment.html

 

[ShokWaveRider]

If Restaurant owners simply paid their staff a "Living Wage" and stopped using them to line their own pockets, the problem would be solved.

 

[Amethyst]

The argument "If tipping went away, restaurants would have to raise prices" has, to me, an inherent flaw. If restaurants raise prices 20% (say), then all customers pay the higher price. But if they rely on tips, then the person who tips 30% is subsidizing the lunch of the person who only leaves 10%. To my way of thinking, that is unfair. Sure, it may be no big deal in the great scheme of things, but it's not right.

As I've said before, the whole matter is a muddle, wherein nobody can state authoritatively What Everybody Should Be Doing. The studies mentioned by Cathy63 seem to confirm this point of view.

And it’s FAR easier to adopt a no tip policy at a (famous) upscale restaurant. There’s no way it could happen at an ordinary value restaurant without blanket legislation. Customers kill it off when restaurant owners try it.

And some of us here, self included, didn’t know this:



https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/no-tipping-tip-free-restaurants-discrimination-harassment.html

 

[Midpack]

If Restaurant owners simply paid their staff a "Living Wage" and stopped using them to line their own pockets, the problem would be solved.

OK, you’re a restaurant owner, how exactly would you proceed? There’s plenty of history of restaurants that have chosen to adopt no tip policies over the past 20 years, most unsuccessful. A few examples above.

 

[24601NoMore]

In Europe many restaurants are moving to app based ordering. No wait staff

To dine there you have to have a smart phone. You order on the app and give your table number. The food is then delivered fairly quickly. Works great.

Frankly while it has some problems (including discrimination against people who tend not to have smart phones) I think this is the way to go. They should just allow you to order and put at the counter if you do t have smart phone.

No one tips in Europe much, but if casual restaurants in USA go this way I think tipping would minimal..... or maybe wishful thinking.

It actually surprises me this hasn't already happened more in the US. Seems to have a lot of advantages over server-based ordering - for example..we've frequently asked a server if a particular dish has something in it that one of us doesn't like (mushrooms for both of us and any kind of pepper for the wife). Frequently, the answer is "I'll have to check"..so much easier for a smartphone app to have a list of ingredients and a picture for each dish. Plus, ordering from an app allows you to specify things you want/don't want on your order - eg: omit the peppers. Lots of times we've asked servers to customize a dish for us, and it only works consistently 80'ish % of the time.

Even better - apps would significantly lower cost for the owners of restaurants by reducing the number of servers needed.

Hopefully we'll see more of this coming as it's always mystified me why we "have" to tip someone to explain the menu to us and carry food to the table. That's a prime opportunity for using technology to make the dining experience a whole lot better while also reducing costs to both the restaurant owners and the patrons..

 

[Midpack]

In Europe many restaurants are moving to app based ordering. No wait staff

To dine there you have to have a smart phone. You order on the app and give your table number. The food is then delivered fairly quickly. Works great.

Frankly while it has some problems (including discrimination against people who tend not to have smart phones) I think this is the way to go. They should just allow you to order and put at the counter if you do t have smart phone.

No one tips in Europe much, but if casual restaurants in USA go this way I think tipping would minimal..... or maybe wishful thinking.

I had not heard of that. Is it in fast food, casual sit-down and/or upscale restaurants? And do you have to download an app for each restaurant (no thanks), or is there a universal app (maybe)? We might end up with nothing but fast food at every price point - I can't imagine going to TFL and ordering off an app...

Tipping may well be eliminated in the US, but it's not going to happen by some restaurant owners taking the initiative - customers have pushed back hard on most restaurants that have tried to implement same. If it happens it will happen through legislation and increasing the minimum wage for ALL (former) tipped employees, so customers can't retaliate by taking their business elsewhere. Prices will go up in restaurants to cover the increased labor costs, and some diners will eat out less often - restaurant owners know they will experience a dip in sales when implemented. You might say customers are paying the same whether it's a higher minimum wage or tips (and they are), but lots of customers don't stop to think about it, there's plenty of history to show that in failed no tip experiments. They just see a significant price increase...

 

[travelover]

............Frankly while it has some problems (including discrimination against people who tend not to have smart phones) I think this is the way to go. They should just allow you to order and put at the counter if you do t have smart phone............

No need for a smart phone - some restaurants now have an electronic interface right at the table.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

No need for a smart phone - some restaurants now have an electronic interface right at the table.

Yes, maybe, but their servers still will expect tips, in the US anyway.

My personal view is folk should be paid what a job is worth, defined by supply and demand. Tips IMHO are just another way to hoodwink the American consumer to thinking they are getting something cheaper than it really is. And yes as mentioned, some folk cannot seem to see that. Cruise ship staff Tips is another one. The American Consumer (we) are so fixated on getting something we perceive is cheaper, we do not seem to mind being nickel and dimed at the other end, it is either ignorance or tolerance one of the two. Either way we pay, so let us make it above board.

You can take this example to insurance deductibles, copays and coinsurance, as long as the initial price is low, we all seem to fall for it.

One other comment, who thinks a Grocery Store Clerk who collects your food and delivers it your car works any less or harder than a restaurant server? Methinks the Walmart clerk that trots around the store picking groceries and delivering them to your car works a lot harder, JMHO but I could be wrong.

 

[CRLLS]

So assuming we are ordering on a smart phone, what if you have a question about how today's special is prepared or want to ask if they contain certain ingredients you may be allergic to? Could you order a server to show up to your table on the app? I often ask the server if they have eaten a certain offering or what they personally would recommend and why?

I abhor table kiosks and will not knowingly frequent a restaurant, fast food or otherwise where this is taking up table space. Even when I do go to McDonalds, I always step up to order from a live person as opposed to their kiosks.

 

[jollystomper]

This thread has caused me to run out of bacon-flavored popcorn. Off to the store for more...

 

[24601NoMore]

So assuming we are ordering on a smart phone, what if you have a question about how today's special is prepared or want to ask if they contain certain ingredients you may be allergic to? Could you order a server to show up to your table on the app? I often ask the server if they have eaten a certain offering or what they personally would recommend and why?

As a former IT guy, that's all pretty easy..the app has a button that shows you all ingredients in a dish. If there's a special, they describe it and how it's prepared.

And if you want someone to answer questions, the app has a "need help" or similar button..

It's probably only a matter of time until we see more technology in restaurants..it lowers cost for both the owner and the customers..and, truth be told, I've had so many experiences over the years (we used to eat out a LOT before ER) where the server didn't even understand their own menu or what was in each dish, that it would in most cases improve the customer's overall experience..

 

[braumeister]

In Europe many restaurants are moving to app based ordering. No wait staff

To dine there you have to have a smart phone. You order on the app and give your table number. The food is then delivered fairly quickly.

I'm reminded of something vaguely similar here. When I was in Atlanta about 3-4 years ago there was a restaurant I liked near my hotel. You downloaded the app (not theirs, but a general purpose app used by a number of restaurants). Then you interacted with the waiter as usual, but if you told him you were using the app, he entered a code on his terminal.

Then, when you were finished, instead of having to find your server, get the bill, etc., you just paid through the app, entering whatever tip amount, and walked out.

I don't know if it ever caught on, but I've never seen it anywhere else, and eventually deleted the app from my phone. It certainly worked well for me at the time, since it was a very popular restaurant and it save quite a bit of time at the end of the meal. The European version seems to have taken the concept one step farther.

 

[Midpack]

So assuming we are ordering on a smart phone, what if you have a question about how today's special is prepared or want to ask if they contain certain ingredients you may be allergic to? Could you order a server to show up to your table on the app? I often ask the server if they have eaten a certain offering or what they personally would recommend and why?

I abhor table kiosks and will not knowingly frequent a restaurant, fast food or otherwise where this is taking up table space. Even when I do go to McDonalds, I always step up to order from a live person as opposed to their kiosks.

It won't happen quickly but it's only a matter of time until you use kiosks, or maybe you won't eat there. Once there aren't enough non kiosk customers to justify paying a counter person, they won't be there. And they will have employees multi-task to cover the counter and other duties as needed in the transition, versus having someone standing there full time - some fast food restaurants are already doing it. I like the kiosk, no waiting, what's not to like?

Same thing is happening with self service checkout in grocery, and many other big box stores (e.g. Costco, Target, Home Depot). I am disappointed when I have to wait in a line these days, I'd much rather do self checkout.

If you don't believe it, think full service gas stations. In most states, there's nothing but self serve gas stations now, despite folks who once insisted they'd never pump their own gas...you'll adapt. When I drive to New England, I make a point of filling up before or after New Jersey to avoid being forced to use full serve. They got me once, but never again.

 

[BeachOrCity]

I had not heard of that. Is it in fast food, casual sit-down and/or upscale restaurants? And do you have to download an app for each restaurant (no thanks), or is there a universal app (maybe)? We might end up with nothing but fast food at every price point - I can't imagine going to TFL and ordering off an app......

It was in the uk at restaurants that were like the level of a Friday’s or Chili’s over here in the US.

And for those wondering if you could ask something extra of the food runners it was definitely no. My mother wanted more “chips”. No way to get it !

 

[Music Lover]

It won't happen quickly but it's only a matter of time until you use kiosks, or maybe you won't eat there. Once there aren't enough non kiosk customers to justify paying a counter person, they won't be there. And they will have employees multi-task to cover the counter and other duties as needed in the transition, versus having someone standing there full time - some fast food restaurants are already doing it. I like the kiosk, no waiting, what's not to like?

Same thing is happening with self service checkout in grocery, and many other big box stores (e.g. Costco, Target, Home Depot). I am disappointed when I have to wait in a line these days, I'd much rather do self checkout.

If you don't believe it, think full service gas stations. In most states, there's nothing but self serve gas stations now, despite folks who once insisted they'd never pump their own gas...you'll adapt. When I drive to New England, I make a point of filling up before or after New Jersey to avoid being forced to use full serve. They got me once, but never again.

I still avoid the kiosks and self service checkouts. If someone is willing to work a till then they have my respect and I'll wait a little longer if need be. I probably can't change "progress" but I can do my small part to help save a job.

Up here virtually all the gas stations have someone that will pump your gas even though they also have self serv pumps. I always let someone pump my gas and there's no penalty for this...the prices are exactly the same as self serv. Pumping gas at -30 sucks and I always tip a gas jockey $20 during my fill before Christmas. I figure they make less in tips all year than most servers make in a week.

 

[Kelor]

Ironically, I'm watching the first season of Larry David and he's complaining about tipping the Captain 10% in addition to 20% for the waiter.