Why are people poor???

[rescueme]

The callousness of some of the people on this board never ceases to amaze me.

It's one thing to admit that you believe that anything you worked for is yours and yours alone, and that you did it without any help from anyone or from the government. If you can really justify a philosophy that feels good about stepping over bodies on the street because you believe that they had the same opportunities of you but were too lazy to capitalize on them, then live in your dream world. You are making questionable judgments about the mental, emotional, and spiritual state of other people, but at least there is no empirical evidence to the contrary since all is part of the "inner word." Of course, this ignores the question of such people's children and their "original sins."

However, to argue that poverty and it's attendant suffering doesn't really exist, and furthermore and that it's all much ado about nothing--this blows me away.

Some of you must lead very sheltered, unobservant lives. Keep your blinders on and keep telling yourself you are where you are due to your own merits.

Excellent! I don't have to respond to the OP, since your response says it all IMHO ...

 

[Hamlet]

All this talk of cheap food and no one mentions the lowly potato?

Potatoes are a cheap source of calories, and they are also very nutritious.

You can eat healthy and pretty cheap, but you have to know which foods are healthy, and you have to know how to cook.

You also have to be willing to expend the time and energy to cook. That usually ends up being my problem.

 

[audreyh1]

All this talk of cheap food and no one mentions the lowly potato?

Potatoes are a cheap source of calories, and they are also very nutritious.

You can eat healthy and pretty cheap, but you have to know which foods are healthy, and you have to know how to cook.

Unfortunately, cheap starch-rich foods like potatoes and grains are terrible for your blood sugar - not exactly "healthy". If you rely on them for most of your caloric intake you are looking at obesity/type-2 diabetes and be malnourished at the same time!

Audrey

 

[Enuff2Eat]

Unfortunately, cheap starch-rich foods like potatoes and grains are terrible for your blood sugar - not exactly "healthy". If you rely on them for most of your caloric intake you are looking at obesity/type-2 diabetes and be malnourished at the same time!

Audrey

Agree, no wonder [-]french[/-] freedom fries are so cheap..

 

[TheSweetLife]

Potatoes are a daily staple when you're poor. Fried, scalloped, baked, mashed, french fries, potatoe soup...made it seem like you were eating something different everyday. Breakfast was a bowl of white rice with a bit of milk or a piece of toast torn up in a bowl with a bit of milk. Nutrition wasn't thought about much. It was all about filling your stomach as cheap as possible.

 

[Alan]

Potatoes are a daily staple when you're poor. Fried, scalloped, baked, mashed, french fries, potatoe soup...made it seem like you were eating something different everyday. Breakfast was a bowl of white rice with a bit of milk or a piece of toast torn up in a bowl with a bit of milk. Nutrition wasn't thought about much. It was all about filling your stomach as cheap as possible.

At home Mam would always buy a big paper bag of potatoes (56lb) every year at harvest time when they were least expensive and the bag would sit at the back of the pantry. We'd have potatoes every day while that bag was in the pantry . As kids we'd take a potato with us into the woods and make a fire and cook it. We'd eat it completely, blackened, charcoaled skin and all.

 

[mews]

My father's mother would cook potatoes for the children in the morning - walk to school in winter in Canada with hand-warmers and eat upon arrival!

ta,
mew

ps: my father's comment was "As kids, we were poor, but so was everyone, so we didn't know and didn't mind. TV makes you envy others."

 

[thriver1000]

"Why are people poor?"

The answer to this question wouldn't be because other people have the money, would it?

 

[tmm99]

Just curious, when you are really really poor and you eat a lot of potatoes, do you get to eat any protein (besides the obvious beans and such that have a lot of carbs)? You get to eat chicken only on special occasions like birthdays and such?

 

[ls99]

Poor? Reasons? Some are just born into the wrong caste. Spend a little time in Calcutta. Or any large city in India. Gives a little different perspective on the problem.

 

[TheSweetLife]

Just curious, when you are really really poor and you eat a lot of potatoes, do you get to eat any protein (besides the obvious beans and such that have a lot of carbs)? You get to eat chicken only on special occasions like birthdays and such?

Yes, I did have meat growing up, just not on a daily basis. We had 3 "expected" suppers every week. Every Thursday we ate beans and cornbread, Friday was potatoe soup and hamburgers, Saturday was biscuits with gravy or homemade white syrup (sugar and water). We had chicken about twice a month. We ate a lot of vegetables, because we had a large garden. My mom canned a lot of vegetables to help get us through the winters. She made so many things for us; jelly (I remember prying off the wax top), pickles, apple pie (about 5 a year, apples from our big apple tree), homemade donuts (once a month - deep fried and then rolled in sugar). She did her best to give us those kind of treats when she could. My mom and dad did the best they could. I'm the kind of person to always try to find the "rainbow" in any given situation. Growing up poor provided many good things in my life. It taught me not to judge people that are in a lower social circle than me. You may have no idea the reasons for their lack of money or social skills, etc. As an adult who has done well financially, it taught me to never think I was any better than anybody else. It taught me to help others that are trying to help themselves. It taught me to appreciate so many things in life. It taught me to give back. It also provided for some unique opportunities....I saw the mountains and the ocean with my kids for the first time. While I try to find the good, obviously I would never want to return to that kind of life. It was tough.

 

[Bikerdude]

"Why are people poor?"

The answer to this question wouldn't be because other people have the money, would it?

The main advantage of money is having more of it than the other guy.

 

[Hamlet]

Potatoes have some protein, but not a lot.

If you pair potatoes with whole milk though, you have a pretty complete diet nutritionally.

It's not an exciting diet, but you shouldn't suffer from malnutrition.

Just curious, when you are really really poor and you eat a lot of potatoes, do you get to eat any protein (besides the obvious beans and such that have a lot of carbs)? You get to eat chicken only on special occasions like birthdays and such?

 

[Hamlet]

At least the potatoes have a large amount of nutritional content along with the starch, compared to a lot of the alternatives like bread and pasta made with bleached white flour.

Unfortunately, cheap starch-rich foods like potatoes and grains are terrible for your blood sugar - not exactly "healthy". If you rely on them for most of your caloric intake you are looking at obesity/type-2 diabetes and be malnourished at the same time!

Audrey

 

[Bikerdude]

Potatoes have some protein, but not a lot.

If you pair potatoes with whole milk though, you have a pretty complete diet nutritionally.

It's not an exciting diet, but you shouldn't suffer from malnutrition.

Very true. However some people will not be happy until all the poor people shop at "Whole Foods".

 

[thriver1000]

Why people are poor:
YouTube - The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class

I think it's time for me to save and exercise more. Of course, it was always time for that. I can definitely buy more cashmere and less house now. No more guilt.

 

[haha]

This is a very impressive woman and a very impressive body of work.

Ha

 

[ls99]

Just finished watching the clip. Excellent data presented. She did not explain why people are poor.

She did make an excellent case for why middle class types not might but will become poor.

The first item that struck me was the cost and size of initial fixed expense as a function of the initial large house purchase (which in the seventies and before would have been the the third or fourth house bought or traded up to), followed by the child care and the gotta do pre-school expense. Third, the health care expense was a biggie as well. The first two essentially wipes out any economic benefit of one of the working partners in the hypothetical 2 worker 2 kid unit.

A lot of arguments can be made for the first two items on my list, I put it in the negative of greed and the want it now mentality. Seems the middle class of the last 20 or so years is/was not into LBYM.

Splendid presentation.

 

[haha]

A lot of arguments can be made for the first two items on my list, I put it in the negative of greed and the want it now mentality. Seems the middle class of the last 20 or so years is/was not into LBYM.

Splendid presentation.

IMO, many on this board have unusual life experience that does not aquaint them with the challenges faced by most ordinary people.

To take the metro where I live, there are really only 2 or three areas where a upward striving couple would allow their children to attend public school. Most of the others have schools that are either dangerous, or useless. So many on this board are without children that this really does not compute for them.

In these "good school" neighborhoods a 1500 sq ft 50s bungalow with significant upkeep and repair issues even now sells for $400,000 +.

In the area where I grew up, the main city has seen it's schools destroyed, while across the river in a different state with a quality school district 1920s bungalows like the one that was my blue collar parents starter home in 1938 are now occupied by lawyers and GS-13s. Same home, only 70 years older and much more expensive in real dollars.

It's not "need it now" at all, IMO.

Ha

 

[ls99]

She did explain that many people will go into hock big time to "buy the school". It makes sense from a parenting view, but does immensly improve the likelyhood of way overspending, moving into negative savings territory and thus becoming insolvent if one partner looses earning.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In my elementary school in the old country 45 to 50 kids in grades one trough eight were the rule. It was true in the majority of the schools.

 

[haha]

In my elementary school in the old country 45 to 50 kids in grades one trough eight were the rule. It was true in the majority of the schools.

I understand. Similarly, my first grade class in Catholic school had 70 pupils. But we learned, partly because if we didn't we got the crap beat out of us first by the nun, next by our parents. Those of us who transferred to public high school found out that we were way ahead.

Do you have school age children now? If so you may understand that class size is the least of the problems in our modern public school system, though it is one that teachers are allowed to discuss.

Ha

 

[ls99]

No. In a long ago previous post I noted that I raised 2 of my late brother's daughters to adulthhood. True that was a while back.

I think arguing the merits of schools and what to do about the state of them could be good. That subject is beyond my fixing.

IMHO the main thrust of the video was why is it likely that middle class may/will become poor. She made an excellent data based argument that the middle class is likely to become poor.

I accept your argument that parents feel compelled to give the best available start to the kids. However that need to give the best start is what can be their downfall. Only the parents today can aswer that by taking the risk they do. If they fail as unit because of wanting the best, it is their gamble and have to live with the consequences.

Once they fail, they will get to experience a far worse environment, both in living conditions and schooling, than if they choose the somewhat less then best. The shock to them is usually immense.

 

[Alan]

very good lecture - thanks for posting.

 

[Independent]

IMO, many on this board have unusual life experience that does not aquaint them with the challenges faced by most ordinary people.

To take the metro where I live, there are really only 2 or three areas where a upward striving couple would allow their children to attend public school. Most of the others have schools that are either dangerous, or useless. So many on this board are without children that this really does not compute for them.

In these "good school" neighborhoods a 1500 sq ft 50s bungalow with significant upkeep and repair issues even now sells for $400,000 +.

In the area where I grew up, the main city has seen it's schools destroyed, while across the river in a different state with a quality school district 1920s bungalows like the one that was my blue collar parents starter home in 1938 are now occupied by lawyers and GS-13s. Same home, only 70 years older and much more expensive in real dollars.

It's not "need it now" at all, IMO.

Ha

I was struck by the bolded part. I think that "ordinary" people live in "ordinary" communities. According to this source, the median selling price of a single-family house is about $178,000.

Metropolitan Median Prices

 

[Keim]

I was struck by the bolded part. I think that "ordinary" people live in "ordinary" communities. According to this source, the median selling price of a single-family house is about $178,000.

Metropolitan Median Prices

Thats the problem with doing comparisons based off of personal experience, and not objective facts. HA HAs experience in a metro area is vastly different from mine in a rural area. IN my areas a decent home costs about $200-$250k $400k buys a very nice home. And all the public schools in my area are quite good. Yet, neither of us can argue that our experiences are applicable to the "ordinary" person.

To echo your point, people often think they live in the norm, but rarely do. Or, as my college science teacher used to say: A sample of one is not a sample.

As an aside: I've always wondered why people would choose to live in places like HA HA describes (Where schools are shoddy or houses are prohibitively expensive). Unless the pay is great at work (So you can afford the house and private schooling), whats the point?