WWYD - HUGE off prop tree leaning toward your house?

[Midpack]

Just behind our property there are lots of wild trees, three are huge deciduous 50-60 footers. Two are leaning away from our house but the biggest one is leaning directly at our house. They’re all alive, but not thriving with growth at top but no lower branches except near the top. Our HOA owns a buffer zone all around our neighborhood and I believe the trees are on HOA prop.

A tall but thin off prop live evergreen tree fell on our neighbors house in high winds, and did serious damage. Scared the bejebbers out of his small children who were upstairs the afternoon it happened and repairs took months. That’s why I’m asking, but it’s too soon to ask them about it, and if the HOA acted.

I politely asked our outside management HOA rep about it. He said they won’t do anything proactive with a live tree (not surprising), but he wouldn’t say what they’d do it if died. I guess I could volunteer to pay to take it down, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it ran $5K or more because of size and location (steep slope).

So I guess I wait and hope, and speak up quickly and often if it dies standing. Any other suggestions?

 

[Brat]

If it leans over your property you can have that section removed.

 

[Idnar7]

Our neighbor had a pine tree blow down on our fence and against our tree. We were surprised to find that it the responsibility of the owner where it falls, not where it was located. Moot point because the neighbor cut it down himself.

 

[braumeister]

If it leans over your property you can have that section removed.

Yes, you are certainly within your rights, AFAIK, to cut off the part that is over your property. Might be worthwhile asking a local tree service for an estimate on that kind of trimming job. Of course I would talk with the owner of the tree first. They might be willing to do that for you.

 

[Midpack]

Our neighbor had a pine tree blow down on our fence and against our tree. We were surprised to find that it the responsibility of the owner where it falls, not where it was located. Moot point because the neighbor cut it down himself.

That prompted me to read further. I wrongly assumed the tree owner would be liable in all cases if their tree fell on our house. Turns out the tree owner is only liable if there’s obvious neglect or they try to cut it down without using a pro. If it’s a live tree, the homeowner is liable.

I’m a little uncomfortable just waiting and hoping, but it doesn’t appear the HOA has any responsibility as long as the trees are at all alive.

When a tree falls over onto a neighbor's property, that neighbor should submit a claim to his or her insurance company immediately. The insurance company is usually responsible for taking care of the damages. This is true if the tree fell over due to an act of nature. For example, a healthy tree that falls over during a tornado, hurricane, wind storm or winter storm would not be the responsibility of the homeowner. Since the homeowner living on the property where the fallen tree was rooted did not intentionally push the tree over, nature is responsible. This means that the neighbor's insurance policy should cover it under perils.

However, there are some cases where a homeowner could be held liable. If the tree fell on the neighbor's home when the homeowner was trying to cut down the tree without professional help, the damage would be the homeowner's responsibility. Also, if the tree was dying, unstable or diseased and the homeowner knew about it, he or she could be liable if it falls over on its own. He or she could also be liable if it falls over during a very light storm that would not normally knock over a tree. When homeowners know they have dying, diseased or unstable trees, it is their responsibility to take steps to prevent them from causing severe damage.

 

[Jerry1]

This is a story with a bad ending. Seen it a couple times. No one will do anything proactive. Had an obvious issue with a tree at my Mom's house. It was their neighbor's but my mom was worried about it. Neighbor and city would do nothing. Thankfully, when the tree did fall, it destroyed only the neighbor's house. Thankfully, no one was hurt but the house suffered significant damage. Probably $50K easy. I wish people would take this more serious before these trees get so large. My daughter has a neighbor with two very large trees in her back yard. They should have never been allowed to get that big. Now, they'll either fall and do serious damage or the cost to remove will be prohibitive. Not many in blue collar suburbia are going to drop a few to several thousand proactively.

Maybe some proactive timing, to the extent anyone will let you do it, would be a good plan. Especially if you can take enough off that if they fall, they won't reach your house.

Good luck.

 

[JoeWras]

Welcome to the South. We warned you about our trees.

My tree is your tree. We all share trees. In the '96 hurricane, my neighbor's trees (about 20) fell on my property, but mine fell on the next guy's. One common tree collective. We all helped each other do the clearing, and each individual insurance paid for our own structures.

Yes, in almost all situations, a tree falling from property rooted outside yours is still your problem if it damages your property. Even if the tree is decayed.

If, however, you have an arborist tag it and prove it is a danger before the event, then it will be the problem of the owner where it is rooted. This is a rare event, because you don't typically have permission to inspect a neighbor's tree.

The city comes around and occasionally tags trees that are in the city's easement. Those instantly (usually) become the homeowner's problem with all blame assigned to any damage they cause being on the homeowner. Nice, huh? City gets off even though they may have planted it on the easement.

 

[Hermit]

After a major huricane at our previous house in Virginia, the HOA came through and cut down all the leaners on common property. I would be really upset if a tree did damage after the HOA had been notified and chose to do nothing.

 

[Midpack]

Welcome to the South. We warned you about our trees.

My tree is your tree. We all share trees. In the '96 hurricane, my neighbor's trees (about 20) fell on my property, but mine fell on the next guy's. One common tree collective. We all helped each other do the clearing, and each individual insurance paid for our own structures.

Yes, in almost all situations, a tree falling from property rooted outside yours is still your problem if it damages your property. Even if the tree is decayed.

If, however, you have an arborist tag it and prove it is a danger before the event, then it will be the problem of the owner where it is rooted. This is a rare event, because you don't typically have permission to inspect a neighbor's tree.

The city comes around and occasionally tags trees that are in the city's easement. Those instantly (usually) become the homeowner's problem with all blame assigned to any damage they cause being on the homeowner. Nice, huh? City gets off even though they may have planted it on the easement.

I think I’ll look into that option, I’m pretty sure the tree is on HOA prop. If the tree was on my prop, I’d take it down proactively, did so at our last house several times. Maybe even wouldn’t have bought the house - but didn’t think about an off prop tree until it happened to a neighbor, and I wrongly assumed it would be the tree owner’s responsibility.

 

[JoeWras]

Because of all of the above, I don't have further suggestions for you. You did ask the HOA kindly, which was worth it.

BTW, "tall but thin" evergreens are typical around here. Sometimes their strength will surprise you. Because they are so common, they are rarely declared a hazard unless you find beetle damage, root rot or the like. It is just what the weedy pines do. These are first generation growers, typically Loblolly pines, and they can easily grow over 3 ft. per year if conditions are right. Give them a little crowding, and they get spindly. Cut the trees next to them, and they'll bow over a bit. Ice storms love to take them out. We haven't had a good ice storm in these parts for nearly 20 years.

 

[Midpack]

Because of all of the above, I don't have further suggestions for you. You did ask the HOA kindly, which was worth it.

BTW, "tall but thin" evergreens are typical around here. Sometimes their strength will surprise you. Because they are so common, they are rarely declared a hazard unless you find beetle damage, root rot or the like. It is just what the weedy pines do. These are first generation growers, typically Loblolly pines, and they can easily grow over 3 ft. per year if conditions are right. Give them a little crowding, and they get spindly. Cut the trees next to them, and they'll bow over a bit. Ice storms love to take them out. We haven't had a good ice storm in these parts for nearly 20 years.

Yep, we’ve watched these tall but very thin spindly evergreens wave wildly all over in high winds like a whip antenna. I’m used to evergreens that look like Christmas trees, most of the mass down low, no matter how big they get. I’d never have guessed how much damage a spindly evergreen could do until one hit our neighbors. That tree was about 50 feet tall but the trunk was probably no more than 9” diameter. The deciduous tree that I’m worried about is about 60 feet tall with a trunk that’s about 3’ in diameter - it’s massive.

 

[JoeWras]

I think I’ll look into that option, I’m pretty sure the tree is on HOA prop. If the tree was on my prop, I’d take it down proactively, did so at our last house several times. Maybe even wouldn’t have bought the house - but didn’t think about an off prop tree until it happened to a neighbor, and I wrongly assumed it would be the tree owner’s responsibility.

You can also offer a 1/2 and 1/2 payment. I'm not saying your HOA will accept, just saying a lot of people have good luck with that when it is neighbor to neighbor.

Neighbor tree problems are one of the most popular topics here on the Nextdoor forum site. This is where I learned about the arborist certification of a dangerous tree thing. I presume it is correct.

BTW, just like people budget for snow removal up north, I budget for tree here. I have to put aside about $1500 per year. Many years it is zero. Some years I've spent close to $5000 dealing with these suckers.

 

[Masquernom]

I had this exact situation. A large tree behind our house was mostly dead. I thought it was on city property, so I called the city. They sent out an arborist that worked for the city. He checked the maps and it turned out the tree was on the HOA of the next door subdivision. Luckily, he declared the tree as officially dead and actually notified the owners of the property. At that point, they would be liable for any damage. I also called and emailed the HOA to make it official. The HOA hired a tree service and cut the tree down pretty promptly.

There was a dead tree on the empty lot between our house and the neighbors. I commented to my wife that it looked worse than the one we'd just had cut down. A wind storm a couple of weeks later brought that tree down onto the neighbors garage. A lot work fixing that one. The empty lot was owned by some realty company and for sale. I don't know what the neighbor did about it. I assume their insurance covered it.

In your situation, I'd see if your city has an arborist. Ask them to take a look at the tree. I would think if they decided the tree was unstable, and you notified the owner in writing of their opinion, you might have legal recourse if anything happened. At least it's worth it have them take a look.

 

[Harrald]

Trimming a tree that overhangs your property is what you should look into. There is a problem though. When trimming large trees they must be balanced too. Trimming to much off one side may cause the tree to fall after time. It sounds like your HOA would then try to place the blame at your feet.
This isn't an easy problem. Carefully read the HOAs rules and good luck.


Harrald

 

[calmloki]

check your insurance - ask about "act of God". Written notice to HOA regarding tree so the insurance company can sue them. Keep insurance paid up. cross fingers.

 

[Gumby]

I just talk to my neighbors about the trees. Two years ago, we had five older maples taken out that were right on the property line. We spit the cost. This year, we are splitting the cost to have the big oak tree trimmed. I'm sure that the neighbor on the other side and I will soon end up talking about two of the big maples on that side, which also straddle the property line, and I'm sure we'll split the cost to take them down. We all try to be good neighbors to each other.

 

[MRG]

My suggestion is to not worry about it. Look the tops of trees are mostly air. A friend used to say 80% air when he hit one with a golf ball. I know they're mostly air from personal experience. When I was 17 I logged this job with my brother and "Crazy Barry", I was only working half days while the others were full time.

In the morning Crazy Barry would cut the trees down, top them and wait for my DB to hook the chokers around the logs for DB to skid out to the landing. When I showed up at noon, DB started hauling logs to the mill and I took over skidding. Crazy Barry knew my inexperience and didn't wait to hook the chokers up and would get way ahead of me. Then he would go roll a big phatty and get stoned. Me running the small dozer suddenly became Crazy Barry's entertainment, how close could he fall a tree to where I would be. I've been hit by many treetops and can say for sure they are mostly air.[emoji849]

If you are still concerned call an arborist.

 

[pb4uski]

My suggestion is to write to your HOA Board expressing concern over the tree and its ailing health and the risk that it will fall on your property and damage it. Include pictures (you can tilt the camera a bit if you want) and send it by certified mail so they can't claim that they didn't receive the letter.

If they fail to act and it does fall and damage your property then you (or your heirs) can sue for damages that they were negligent. If they fail to act you may want to send them a similar letter with pictures by certified mail every year or so. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[JoeWras]

My suggestion is to write to your HOA Board expressing concern over the tree and its ailing health and the risk that it will fall on your property and damage it. Include pictures (you can tilt the camera a bit if you want) and send it by certified mail so they can't claim that they didn't receive the letter.

If they fail to act and it does fall and damage your property then you (or your heirs) can sue for damages that they were negligent. If they fail to act you may want to send them a similar letter with pictures by certified mail every year or so. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Sure, he can do this. But... There are so many top heavy and leaning trees in NC that you could write letters all day long. It won't prove that it is a dangerous tree.

Ya need the certified person to say it is so to really stand up.

 

[pb4uski]

Sure, he can do this. But... There are so many top heavy and leaning trees in NC that you could write letters all day long. It won't prove that it is a dangerous tree.

Ya need the certified person to say it is so to really stand up.

Perhaps, but if you write to them expressing concern the potential liability effectively forces them to at least look into the situation (unless they are totally clueless, which would not be unusual with a HOA board). If it falls the burden of proof will be on them to demonstrate that they at least evaluated the situation.... and perhaps had a certified person evaluate it and conclude that it was not a danger.

I don't see it would hurt other than perhaps the board might prefer the conversation be initiated verbally rather than by certified letter because then they cn more easily ignore it.

 

[Midpack]

I think I’ll pay an arborist to assess the situation first (great suggestion I hadn’t thought of). The tree is alive but if he/she says the tree is questionable I will approach the HOA. My first experience with our HOA rep at a neighborhood meeting wasn’t bad, but I know HOAs can be a PITA. Our last neighborhood HOA wasn’t even handed, but the residents acted like morons at the meetings I attended so “we” probably got what we deserved from that HOA board.

Removing the tree would be terribly expensive but I’m thinking it could just be dropped in place, should be way less expensive. There are dozens of downed and broken trees in the woods from storms already, it’s not maintained at all.

 

[omni550]

Midpack,

Would it make any sense to call your insurance company, explain the situation, and ask for their input? They probably have a lot of experience with trees and the damage they can cause...and possible mitigation before-the-fact.

omni

 

[Midpack]

Midpack,

Would it make any sense to call your insurance company, explain the situation, and ask for their input? They probably have a lot of experience with trees and the damage they can cause...and possible mitigation before-the-fact.

omni

Agreed. I’ll probably do that too. Thanks.

 

[Jerry1]

Midpack,

Would it make any sense to call your insurance company, explain the situation, and ask for their input? They probably have a lot of experience with trees and the damage they can cause...and possible mitigation before-the-fact.

omni

Agreed. I’ll probably do that too. Thanks.

That seems such a logical thing to do but in my sample of one (my mom's house), they just shrugged and said to call them when it falls. Insurance is kind of like that. Until there's damage, they don't have much in their quiver.

 

[pb4uski]

That seems such a logical thing to do but in my sample of one (my mom's house), they just shrugged and said to call them when it falls. Insurance is kind of like that. Until there's damage, they don't have much in their quiver.

If I was the insurer, even if I felt fairly certain that the tree will fall sometime in the next 10 years, I'd have to overlay that with the likelihood that I'll still be the insurer at the time it falls.... people change insurers or houses all the time... so I'd be hesiant to invest time and effort into getting a dangerous tree removed unless it was a clear and present danger.