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Old 07-28-2010, 12:35 AM   #21
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$41K?

Why would anyone get a volt instead of a prius? Is there something special about the volt that I don't know?
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Nords View Post
I'm agnostic on the brand & model, but in 4-6 years I'm hoping to buy a three-year-old one from someone who's totally disillusioned with the concept.
My rule on acquiring new technologies is similar. Let the suckers who have to be the first adapters run in and pay the big bucks while making all of the mistakes. If you wait a bit you will buy a better product for a lot less money.

The week after everyone was standing in line to get their iPhone 4 saw me down at AT&T getting a 3GS for a really nice price. And my phone doesn't have to have an iCondom to get a signal.

But on the EVs I think I will wait quite a while before jumping in. I know you want to tinker with the damn thing, but me, I just want to drive it. And I think there will be a lot of sorting out of all the issues before an EV is cheap enough, reliable enough, and supported well enough before I go shopping.

Meanwhile, I'm shopping for a used 911 Carrera that's 5 or so years-old. Compared to my eleven-year-old 5.6 liter truck, the 25 MPG will be phenomenal - I expect Al Gore to send me a thank you note. In another ten years or so it might be the right time to trade in the Porsche and get a EV. All of you engineer types ought to have it all sorted out by then, and the market place should have prices reasonable as well.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:15 AM   #23
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25 years for the entire light vehicle fleet? That seems kinda "optimistic." I'd bet we've got a much longer time to work out the power grid issues.
It is Extremely optimistic. I basically used 25 years to give FireDreamers position the strongest 'benifit-of-the-doubt' I could.
I agree, it will most likely take longer
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:00 AM   #24
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My rule on acquiring new technologies is similar. Let the suckers who have to be the first adapters run in and pay the big bucks while making all of the mistakes. If you wait a bit you will buy a better product for a lot less money.
I'm with Leonidas on this one. That said the idea of the Volt is very intriguing and I like the concept of most driving being electric, while retaining the longer range of gasoline power when needed. The claimed all-electric 40-mile range almost matches DW's normal driving perfectly.

But the price will have to be cut nearly in half before I'd seriously consider buying one and I'll want to see real-world reliability results for a number of years. And I do believe that the energy density of batteries will get much better and cheaper very soon. The progress being made in that field is rapid and promising.

So while I'm a long way from plunking down any cash for one I'll be watching closely.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:37 AM   #25
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A 40-mi. range more than covers my average day of driving, but I'm looking at spending about half of $40k on ANY new car...
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:01 AM   #26
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GM and the UAW still leave a bad taste in my mouth, I get that subsidies encourage adoption by consumers, but having that crew be the benificiary of more taxpayer money has me p o'd.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:06 AM   #27
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40 miles just about covers my monthly mileage.

i've seen bumper stickers on the back priuses that say, "your SUV makes you look fat."

i want a shirt that says, "your prius makes you look lazy."

my trusty schwinn's get me to and fro with no problem. $40k?! no way. i've been riding the same bike since i was 14.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:20 AM   #28
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$41K?

Why would anyone get a volt instead of a prius? Is there something special about the volt that I don't know?

Yes... it is made by your government...
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:17 AM   #29
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Why would anyone get a volt instead of a prius? Is there something special about the volt that I don't know?
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Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
But on the EVs I think I will wait quite a while before jumping in. I know you want to tinker with the damn thing, but me, I just want to drive it.
In our case it's a niche. We already own a Prius. 40 miles is a great neighborhood car, we live on a 30x40 island so a 40-mile EV could do some town driving, and we'd recharge it from our photovoltaic array. Not having to buy gas would drop our expenses about $1000/year (at today's $3.25/gal).

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Meanwhile, I'm shopping for a used 911 Carrera that's 5 or so years-old.
Funny you should mention that model-- it's such a favorite for aftermarket & DIY EV conversions that Porsche is considering an EV version of the Boxster.

Electric Porsche,Ev,ELectric car,battery cars,conversion,EVporsche, boxster,911,greencar,hybrid,

Electric motor torque ratings mean that if you stomp on a Porsche EV's accelerator you'll get the same G forces as a gas hog. But I'm afraid that I don't know if you get the same reaction from hot chicks.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:33 AM   #30
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I just dont see the point of this car at this time. Unless you want to "go green" and dont mind paying a very hefty fee to do so, it doesnt make sense to get this car. Even used you'll need to worry about battery replacement and disposal which isnt cheap. How long would i be to break even money wise on gas savings? Modern gasoline cars are getting amazing fuel economy now.

I'm currently car shopping and this, or any EV isnt on my list. Neither is the Prius style hybrids. The cars doing hybrid right, in my opinion, are the very nice Ford Fusion Hybrid and possibly the upcoming Hyundai Sonata Kia Optima hybrids.

As it stands though, I'll be getting the 2011 Optima, a hell of a lot more car for 25k and ... well look at it!

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Old 07-28-2010, 10:43 AM   #31
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One concern I have about the Volt, is what if you end up relying on the electricity for so long that the gasoline eventually goes stale? For instance, I work about 4 miles away, and don't really go very far. And if I was going on a long trip I'd take a bigger, more comfortable vehicle anyway. So in my case, it's entirely conceivable that the gasoline could go bad.

How long does gas last nowadays, anyway? Back in the day, I used to hear that after a year or so, it would start to turn to varnish. But then I hear stories about someone finding a 1952 DeSoto or whatever in a barn that hasn't been started in 20 years, and supposedly fires right up on that ancient gasoline!

I think most gasoline nowadays is actually a blend, with 5-10% ethanol, and it tends to go bad faster than "pure" gasoline.

But, that aside, I probably won't be buying a Volt anytime soon. Considering my commute is so short, I don't buy much gasoline anyway. I could probably commute in an out-of-tune Hemi Roadrunner and my monthly fuel bill would still be negligible!
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:18 AM   #32
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Don't forget the $7500 tax credit that you get by purchasing a Volt. $33,500 is still a hefty price, though.

The concept is cool, but I'm not going to be buying one.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:20 AM   #33
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... I get that subsidies encourage adoption by consumers, ...
I don't like the ideas of subsidies either. If these things can't stand on their own merits, they can't stand, period. Making me pay for my neighbors car doesn't change the payback equation, it just changes who pays for it. If I don't want to pay for one for myself, I certainly don't want to pay for someone else's.

I've talked about it before, but I think the 'adoption rate' boost is overstated. In fact, it might even slow down progress in EVs (hey, if they can sell them with limited range due to this false increased value with the subsidy, there is less incentive to improve range).

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One concern I have about the Volt, is what if you end up relying on the electricity for so long that the gasoline eventually goes stale?
I'm pretty sure there is a maintenance mode where it runs the ICE through a cycle every two weeks or so. And with the sealed gas tanks we have today, I think stale gas is less of a problem.

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Old 07-28-2010, 11:25 AM   #34
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Not a problem - buy yourself a gasoline-powered generator.
The Volt has a gas generator built in, rather than a gas combustion engine for when you run out of electrons.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:25 AM   #35
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Don't forget the $7500 tax credit that you get by purchasing a Volt. $33,500 is still a hefty price, though.
Anyone who buys one should be required to loan it out to the public 9.5 weeks a year for the life of the car. After all, if we paid for 18% of their new car, shouldn't we get 18% ownership?

I just don't get why some of us should pay for another's car/appliance, etc.

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Old 07-28-2010, 11:56 AM   #36
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I still like smaller diesels, but most companies are not bringing them to the US. A diesel hybrid may be cool, but I don't know any in the works.

I do plan to check out the new Ford Fiesta, under $15K and close to 40MPG.

I have a 75 mile round trip commute. I may be looking to move closer to work!
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:57 AM   #37
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I read the announcement yesterday and after reading the details, realized that this was essentially an admission of failure. I don't see how anyone could consider this a serious car at that price and with those specs unless they are trying to make some kind of statement. Unfortunately, we will be subsidizing the statement-makers . . .
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:03 PM   #38
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...
I just don't get why some of us should pay for another's car/appliance, etc.

-ERD50
The basics are the same as the reason I am required to pay for the education of my neighbors kids, the rescue of people I don't even know, the firefighters who put out fires no where near me.

The answer to your question is very tricky, where do you draw the line?
I am happy topaz taxes to support education as it is relatively easy to see how that helps society as a whole.
Paying for a local museum most people will never see? I don't think so, but I am paying for that as well.
EVs in my opinion will provide a better quality of life for society as a whole, so I think it 'fits' in with education, emergency services, etc.
However, I am sure some don't. Which is, supposedly, why we have elections.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:30 PM   #39
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I bet 5-10 year from now, the thought of making a car that only runs on gasoline will seem so archiac. A comparison is the thought of the process of film photography rather than digital.

I think the Volt is a statement. That a car made by a non-foriegn company can do it too ... even though, late at the party.

From a consumer standpoint, this is good news because it's only a matter of time before there are more and more choices and competition. Supply and demand.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:45 PM   #40
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I see the Volt being an economic failure for GM (and the taxpayer owners) - people buying them will be those trying to make an environmental statement. Smarter folks will do the math and buy a conventional 40 mpg car.

I have a problem with front row parking spaces being reserved for hybrids and some public facilities providing plug-ins.
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