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Old 09-20-2010, 04:15 PM   #61
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I knew lots of people's families are dysfunctional but I would hate to think that your 98/2 statistic reflects the true state of affairs.

Don't give me credit for that statistical quote of 98/2%. Give it to John Bradshaw who's written tons of books and had a tv program on helping folks like Dr. Phil has. You can find his books in any book store in the self-help section.
Went out with him in Houston, and he gave me that little quote. I've been stealing it ever since to use.
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:34 PM   #62
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I've served in submarines with at least two of those guys, and I'm not talking about Ghandi...
Oog. We had one on board who finished a run 'under restraint.' I didn't know that the corpsman had a supply of straitjackets and enough horse tranquilizer to keep someone down for 'the duration'. There was a whole lot of 'who's next' for the rest of the run.

I guess he wasn't 'borderline' any more.

Of course, this was all in the interest of avoiding a really hostile workplace, and I'm not sure it would be justified for handling Uncle Ray should he get a bit rambunctious at the next Thanksgiving dinner.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:28 PM   #63
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I just read through the wikipedia description of BPD. I kept looking for my exMIL's photo there.

I married into an extremely dysfunctional family, and was astounded at how the mother would manipulate the father and the 4 siblings. I smartly walked away from the button-pushing and then avoided her completely unless we were all in public. That approach never failed me.

I always told my late huband "You must have been hatched" because he just couldn't be related to these people.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:50 PM   #64
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Please tell me I'm not the only person on this board who likes my parents and siblings.
Nope - mine are enjoyable and functional as well! Brother is an idiot - but not in the drama sense - he's just the little brother, and it is my job to dislike him - but I'd do nearly anything for him if requested!

Very relieved I do not have energy sucking relatives as many here do. Wishing you all the best!
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:08 PM   #65
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Oog. We had one on board who finished a run 'under restraint.' I didn't know that the corpsman had a supply of straitjackets and enough horse tranquilizer to keep someone down for 'the duration'. There was a whole lot of 'who's next' for the rest of the run.
They don't call it the "silent service" for nothing...

I always thought that the "special" boats should get some sort of extra-special pay to make up for the special situations they kept getting into.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:50 AM   #66
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Am I the only one wondering how many guys on submarines lose it each year on a voyage and get the straitjacket treatment? I always wondered about that, by the way.
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:07 AM   #67
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Am I the only one wondering how many guys on submarines lose it each year on a voyage and get the straitjacket treatment? I always wondered about that, by the way.
I was also wondering if vitamin D deficiency has been recognized as an issue and is it being addressed.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:42 PM   #68
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I come from a severely disfunctional family. However, I never felt a need to let them know that I think they are a bunch of nutters, basically all I did was not make any effort to contact my mother or one of my siblings and sure enough I don't hear from them. Saw my sister last year for the first time in 7 years, there is no connection between us and I don't feel the need to try and pretend and maintain any contact. If my mother was to die tomorrow I don't even know if I would bother turning up to the funeral. I see family as being more of an accident of birth rather than having to have lifetime chains to connect us all.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:54 PM   #69
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I come from a severely disfunctional family. However, I never felt a need to let them know that I think they are a bunch of nutters, basically all I did was not make any effort to contact my mother or one of my siblings and sure enough I don't hear from them. Saw my sister last year for the first time in 7 years, there is no connection between us and I don't feel the need to try and pretend and maintain any contact. If my mother was to die tomorrow I don't even know if I would bother turning up to the funeral. I see family as being more of an accident of birth rather than having to have lifetime chains to connect us all.
Haven't been to a family funeral since 1967. Likely never will again.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:25 PM   #70
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My family was no bed of roses, but there never has been and never will be any kind of disconnection. I admit that my life got a bit easier when my parents died, although I grieved deeply anyway.

Anthropologists will tell us that around the world, kinship ties are the first line of defense for families and individuals.

If (when) America starts letting us fend for ourselves more, perhaps we will understand why keeping ties is often worth it, even from a purely selfish POV.

USA is a uniquely atomized society and perhaps this is one reason why in spite of good overall conditions the signs of deep social pathology are everywhere

Ha
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:46 PM   #71
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I would prefer taxes & medicare to living with any of my #$%^ relatives.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:09 PM   #72
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I would prefer taxes & medicare to living with any of my #$%^ relatives.
Yes, I believe you have made that clear.

Ha
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:25 PM   #73
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The French movie Betty Blue is perhaps the definitive portrait of a borderline woman, and the havoc she wreaks on herself, the man who loves her, and almost anyone else who comes into her line of fire. I used to fall for this type, thank God I am finally over that.

Are these people mostly women, or is it just that BPD women attract more artistic atention?

Ha
Men get called sociopaths.

Women get called borderline.



There probably is sexism in diagnosis and a bunch of learned behavior that fits cultural sex role expectations.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:29 PM   #74
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My family was no bed of roses, but there never has been and never will be any kind of disconnection. I admit that my life got a bit easier when my parents died, although I grieved deeply anyway.

Anthropologists will tell us that around the world, kinship ties are the first line of defense for families and individuals.

If (when) America starts letting us fend for ourselves more, perhaps we will understand why keeping ties is often worth it, even from a purely selfish POV.

USA is a uniquely atomized society and perhaps this is one reason why in spite of good overall conditions the signs of deep social pathology are everywhere

Ha
I have to agree with you. I spend some of my life in a communal society in the developing world and off course there was a lot of conflict (sadly this is just the way humans naturally are) but there was a lot less social pathology. I think this is mainly due to the fact that people rely on each other for both emotional and financial support. Family bonds are also very tight because in non-western societies, it doesn't matter what a family members does or how a family member behaves, you still need to love them just because they're your family/relative.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:51 PM   #75
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Haven't been to a family funeral since 1967. Likely never will again.
Truly, I do understand your feelings on this subject.

My father (not a DF in the broadest sense) passed more than a few years ago.

While our relationship was certainly strained (had not talked to him in over 20 years, when he decided to form his "new family”) and there was certainly no love between us, I did feel an "obligation" that my son (his grandson) see that his grandfather had passed.

We went to the funeral home early (I called, and made them aware of our situation. Much to my surprise, they did not think this an "abnormal" family situation at all).

My DW/DS/me went to view him in his casket. I do remember standing in front of his remains and cursing him (not vocally, but mentally) of the "injustices" that he had put upon me (and my family) over the years.

I walked out of the funeral home with a great load lifted from my shoulders.

He was dead; I was released from the "bad times".

Sometimes, it's good to have those final farewells. Not for the deceased, but for your state of mind, and your life. That's what counts.

Just my thoughts...
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:51 PM   #76
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Men get called sociopaths.

Women get called borderline.



There probably is sexism in diagnosis and a bunch of learned behavior that fits cultural sex role expectations.

Hadn't considered whether there was any sexism in diagnosis - have heard that many successful heads of business - or nations? - are sociopaths. The capability to be totally charming while someone has use and absolutely uncaring once that utility is diminished makes for a very effective sociopathic head. The utter lack of empathy and inability to read social cues that I associate with the Borderline person seem perhaps different? Really don't know.

The borderline person i'm thinking of is a bit lacking in the charming area - her focus is remarkable though. She is right about many things years before conventional medicine decides they are valid, but I would quite literally die before taking her advice if it meant entering her crazy world. I'm thinking that microwaving things in plastic containers is less toxic than the stress of her screaming.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:58 PM   #77
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Hadn't considered whether there was any sexism in diagnosis - have heard that many successful heads of business - or nations? - are sociopaths. The capability to be totally charming while someone has use and absolutely uncaring once that utility is diminished makes for a very effective sociopathic head. The utter lack of empathy and inability to read social cues that I associate with the Borderline person seem perhaps different? Really don't know.

The borderline person i'm thinking of is a bit lacking in the charming area - her focus is remarkable though. She is right about many things years before conventional medicine decides they are valid, but I would quite literally die before taking her advice if it meant entering her crazy world. I'm thinking that microwaving things in plastic containers is less toxic than the stress of her screaming.
Well that's where I am

I can't read the cues.
But I tried to.
And no longer having to try has done wonders for my health.
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:01 PM   #78
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Family bonds are also very tight because in non-western societies, it doesn't matter what a family members does or how a family member behaves, you still need to love them just because they're your family/relative.
Family bonds are very special to me too. Yes, my family can be a big PITA sometimes, but we stick together. They help define my identity and give me a sense of belonging that friends and neighbors never will. I know I can trust and count on them more than anyone else I can think of.
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:15 PM   #79
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I am grateful to live in a somewhat post-patriarchal society.
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:52 PM   #80
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Am I the only one wondering how many guys on submarines lose it each year on a voyage and get the straitjacket treatment? I always wondered about that, by the way.
Well, let me check my annual highlights issue of "Submarine Force Review"... hunh, funny, the "straitjackets" column used to be listed right here after "alcoholics", "anti-depressants", and "chainsmokers".

Kidding aside, I've never been on a crew where straitjacketing was necessary. I've seen hundreds of shouting matches, quite a few nightmares, one fistfight (in the 1970s), several episodes of "frozen in fear", and a couple screamers emotional breakdowns. I've seen several people curled up in a corner in a fetal ball who later decided to try some other part of the Navy. I knew of one CO who made a mistake and simply gave up on his job afterwards, forcing the XO to pretty much run the show for the day on the way back inport. But that's what XOs are for, and both knew that the CO was going to lose his job after that mistake.

One of my good friends was struggling with claustrophobia for over a decade of sea duty, but he really liked submarine pay and managed to hide the issue. His practice was to stay awake 18-20 hours and then collapse in exhaustion for a few hours' sleep before jerking awake in the narrow confines of his bunk. Unfortunately one day he developed appendicitis and the pain kept him from sleeping, and the claustrophobia took over. The corpsman had him laying on a mattress in the middle of the torpedo room plugged into a morphine drip for most of the 24 hours that it took us to race back to port for the MEDEVAC. The appendectomy was routine (at Tripler hospital, not onboard!), he was disqualified from further submarine sea duty, and he finished out his career in submarine maintenance facilities. He's doing fine today. Good guy.

I spent 1992-1994 at COMSUBPAC staff headquarters in the Operations department. I was briefed in to nearly all of the Pacific's current events (and 100% of their waterspace management) as well as most of the force's Cold War history. I never came across a straitjacket story. The rest of what I read, heard about, and saw would fill a book-- but it's already been written:
Amazon.com: Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage (9780060977719): Sherry Sontag, Christopher Drew: Books

The submarine lifestyle comes with plenty of preloaded stress (even before you stir in the dysfunctional personalities and dog the hatches) but the reality is that it's just looooong periods of frustrating boredom punctuated by short periods of intense panic. The shore training is realistic (and stressful) enough that most people's problems show up before they even make it to sea duty. I dealt with far more personnel casualties at training commands (including two suicides and a murder/suicide) than I ever did on sea duty.

Makes ya wonder why there are so few military ERs, right?
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