Disconnecting from dysfunctional family members

[calmloki]

Men get called sociopaths.

Women get called borderline.



There probably is sexism in diagnosis and a bunch of learned behavior that fits cultural sex role expectations.

Hadn't considered whether there was any sexism in diagnosis - have heard that many successful heads of business - or nations? - are sociopaths. The capability to be totally charming while someone has use and absolutely uncaring once that utility is diminished makes for a very effective sociopathic head. The utter lack of empathy and inability to read social cues that I associate with the Borderline person seem perhaps different? Really don't know.

The borderline person i'm thinking of is a bit lacking in the charming area - her focus is remarkable though. She is right about many things years before conventional medicine decides they are valid, but I would quite literally die before taking her advice if it meant entering her crazy world. I'm thinking that microwaving things in plastic containers is less toxic than the stress of her screaming.

 

[Khan]

Hadn't considered whether there was any sexism in diagnosis - have heard that many successful heads of business - or nations? - are sociopaths. The capability to be totally charming while someone has use and absolutely uncaring once that utility is diminished makes for a very effective sociopathic head. The utter lack of empathy and inability to read social cues that I associate with the Borderline person seem perhaps different? Really don't know.

The borderline person i'm thinking of is a bit lacking in the charming area - her focus is remarkable though. She is right about many things years before conventional medicine decides they are valid, but I would quite literally die before taking her advice if it meant entering her crazy world. I'm thinking that microwaving things in plastic containers is less toxic than the stress of her screaming.

Well that's where I am

I can't read the cues.
But I tried to.
And no longer having to try has done wonders for my health.

 

[FIREd]

Family bonds are also very tight because in non-western societies, it doesn't matter what a family members does or how a family member behaves, you still need to love them just because they're your family/relative.

Family bonds are very special to me too. Yes, my family can be a big PITA sometimes, but we stick together. They help define my identity and give me a sense of belonging that friends and neighbors never will. I know I can trust and count on them more than anyone else I can think of.

 

[Khan]

I am grateful to live in a somewhat post-patriarchal society.

 

[Nords]

Am I the only one wondering how many guys on submarines lose it each year on a voyage and get the straitjacket treatment? I always wondered about that, by the way.

Well, let me check my annual highlights issue of "Submarine Force Review"... hunh, funny, the "straitjackets" column used to be listed right here after "alcoholics", "anti-depressants", and "chainsmokers".

Kidding aside, I've never been on a crew where straitjacketing was necessary. I've seen hundreds of shouting matches, quite a few nightmares, one fistfight (in the 1970s), several episodes of "frozen in fear", and a couple [-]screamers[/-] emotional breakdowns. I've seen several people curled up in a corner in a fetal ball who later decided to try some other part of the Navy. I knew of one CO who made a mistake and simply gave up on his job afterwards, forcing the XO to pretty much run the show for the day on the way back inport. But that's what XOs are for, and both knew that the CO was going to lose his job after that mistake.

One of my good friends was struggling with claustrophobia for over a decade of sea duty, but he really liked submarine pay and managed to hide the issue. His practice was to stay awake 18-20 hours and then collapse in exhaustion for a few hours' sleep before jerking awake in the narrow confines of his bunk. Unfortunately one day he developed appendicitis and the pain kept him from sleeping, and the claustrophobia took over. The corpsman had him laying on a mattress in the middle of the torpedo room plugged into a morphine drip for most of the 24 hours that it took us to race back to port for the MEDEVAC. The appendectomy was routine (at Tripler hospital, not onboard!), he was disqualified from further submarine sea duty, and he finished out his career in submarine maintenance facilities. He's doing fine today. Good guy.

I spent 1992-1994 at COMSUBPAC staff headquarters in the Operations department. I was briefed in to nearly all of the Pacific's current events (and 100% of their waterspace management) as well as most of the force's Cold War history. I never came across a straitjacket story. The rest of what I read, heard about, and saw would fill a book-- but it's already been written:
Amazon.com: Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage (9780060977719): Sherry Sontag, Christopher Drew: Books

The submarine lifestyle comes with plenty of preloaded stress (even before you stir in the dysfunctional personalities and dog the hatches) but the reality is that it's just looooong periods of frustrating boredom punctuated by short periods of intense panic. The shore training is realistic (and stressful) enough that most people's problems show up before they even make it to sea duty. I dealt with far more personnel casualties at training commands (including two suicides and a murder/suicide) than I ever did on sea duty.

Makes ya wonder why there are so few military ERs, right?

 

[Khan]

My sister's first husband went AWOL from submarine duty.

 

[Martha]

Hadn't considered whether there was any sexism in diagnosis - have heard that many successful heads of business - or nations? - are sociopaths. The capability to be totally charming while someone has use and absolutely uncaring once that utility is diminished makes for a very effective sociopathic head. The utter lack of empathy and inability to read social cues that I associate with the Borderline person seem perhaps different? Really don't know.

The borderline person i'm thinking of is a bit lacking in the charming area - her focus is remarkable though. She is right about many things years before conventional medicine decides they are valid, but I would quite literally die before taking her advice if it meant entering her crazy world. I'm thinking that microwaving things in plastic containers is less toxic than the stress of her screaming.

I'm not saying they are two sides to the same coin. They are just both diagnoses that are overweight one sex or the other.

 

[haha]

They are just both diagnoses that are overweight one sex or the other.

So is lupus or gallstones, or coronary artery disease for that matter. I have no idea what the reality is, but biology could be a big part of these differences.

Ha

 

[Nords]

My sister's first husband went AWOL from submarine duty.

Heh. That reminds me of a sea story.

We came back from my first patrol on my first submarine and enjoyed 30 days' leave. Upon mustering back in the offcrew office, an E-3 was absent. After his shipmates made a few phone calls it turned out that he was fine and had no intention of returning.

A week later the E-3's father called the offcrew office to speak to his son. It soon became apparent that he had no idea his son had gone AWOL so the phone call was quickly routed to the XO. XO started to explain what AWOL meant and how it could turn into desertion-- but the father said that he was also a veteran, understood the situation, and would talk to him later.

A few days "later" the E-3 returned with a renewed zeal for the sailor life. (Minus, of course, the inevitable UCMJ consequences.) It turned out that dear ol' Dad was a retired USMC gunnery sergeant, and the young lad had decided that facing the Navy's music was a lot more pleasant than the tune Dad was planning to play.

What I learned as an impressionable O-2 was that young AWOL sailors should have their parents promptly informed by an official letter on command stationery. It cost very little effort and worked more often than anything else...

 

[Khan]

Heh. That reminds me of a sea story.

We came back from my first patrol on my first submarine and enjoyed 30 days' leave. Upon mustering back in the offcrew office, an E-3 was absent. After his shipmates made a few phone calls it turned out that he was fine and had no intention of returning.

A week later the E-3's father called the offcrew office to speak to his son. It soon became apparent that he had no idea his son had gone AWOL so the phone call was quickly routed to the XO. XO started to explain what AWOL meant and how it could turn into desertion-- but the father said that he was also a veteran, understood the situation, and would talk to him later.

A few days "later" the E-3 returned with a renewed zeal for the sailor life. (Minus, of course, the inevitable UCMJ consequences.) It turned out that dear ol' Dad was a retired USMC gunnery sergeant, and the young lad had decided that facing the Navy's music was a lot more pleasant than the tune Dad was planning to play.

What I learned as an impressionable O-2 was that young AWOL sailors should have their parents promptly informed by an official letter on command stationery. It cost very little effort and worked more often than anything else...

He was a nice guy. She took him to Guam (she was active duty) and dumped him for second Navy guy when she got pregnant.

It seems Navy pays to send divorced spouses (and dogs and cats) back to mainland.

 

[Sue J]

We went to the funeral home early (I called, and made them aware of our situation. Much to my surprise, they did not think this an "abnormal" family situation at all).

Over the summer there was a tragic local story of a 20 year old young woman who went missing in Lake Erie and her body didn't turn up for a length of time. Her parents were long divorced and you could tell by the news reports that even during this horrible time, the two sides of the family still were not able to communicate with each other.

After she was found the obituary very delicately made it clear that the two sides of the family needed to be kept apart. The calling hours for the father's side were on one day and for the mother's side were on the next day. Even the requests for memorial donations were to different places depending on which side of the family you knew.

I bet funeral homes see all kinds of family situations.

 

[KM]

Coincidentally, I declared this past weekend that I was done with my dysfunctional family. Probably won't be able to pull it off long-term, but I plan on trying for a while. I have always been called the "sane" one. "The sane one" translates into "the one everyone calls and dumps all of their woes on, the one everyone complains to, the one who is supposed to fix everything, the one who no one can be bothered with until the need/want something".

Sometimes I think it is easier if you are trying to disown family member(s) if they have done something blatantly wrong or bad. It's the ones that do just enough to make you realize they are not a good force in your life, but not enough to justify you saying "I am done, I don't need this crap".

I know lots of people who are close to the parents/siblings and I envy them. I am sure they are dysfunctional in their own ways too - but they seem happy in that dysfunction.

I would move if I could. I can't and they all know where I live. So I save for ER and hope I can run away then.

 

[Martha]

So is lupus or gallstones, or coronary artery disease for that matter. I have no idea what the reality is, but biology could be a big part of these differences.

Ha

Sure could. Any evidence for that?

Or maybe it is sampling error and there isn't really a difference: Why are women diagnosed borderline more than men? [Psychiatr Q. 2003] - PubMed result

Or maybe one of these theories is correct: BPD Central - borderline personality disorder resources - basics

Theories of why BPD happens more often in women
​

• Sexual abuse, which is common in childhood histories of borderline patients, happens more often to women than men.
• Women experience more inconsistent and invalidating messages in this society.
• Women are more vulnerable to BPD because they are socialized to be more dependent on others and more sensitive to rejection.
• Clinicians are biased. Studies have shown that mental health professionals tend to diagnose BPD more often in women than men, even when patient profiles are identical except for the gender of the patient.
• Men seek psychiatric help less often.
• Men are more likely to be treated only for their alcoholism or substance abuse; their borderline symptoms go unnoticed because BPD is assumed to be a woman's disorder.
• Female borderlines are in the mental health system; male borderlines are in jail.

 

[haha]

Sure could. Any evidence for that?

No, but it doesn't take much evidence to say "may be due to". But it is not really an issue that is important to me. I have learned how to protect myself from these sirens, and I think I can move on to other things of interest, like SWRs, Girl Groups of the Sixties and how America is going to Hell.

Ha

 

[Emeritus]

Coincidentally, I declared this past weekend that I was done with my dysfunctional family. Probably won't be able to pull it off long-term, but I plan on trying for a while. I have always been called the "sane" one. "The sane one" translates into "the one everyone calls and dumps all of their woes on, the one everyone complains to, the one who is supposed to fix everything, the one who no one can be bothered with until the need/want something".

Sometimes I think it is easier if you are trying to disown family member(s) if they have done something blatantly wrong or bad. It's the ones that do just enough to make you realize they are not a good force in your life, but not enough to justify you saying "I am done, I don't need this crap".

I know lots of people who are close to the parents/siblings and I envy them. I am sure they are dysfunctional in their own ways too - but they seem happy in that dysfunction.

I would move if I could. I can't and they all know where I live. So I save for ER and hope I can run away then.

If you haven't seen it rent Hospital With George c Scott and Diana Rigg
Written by Paddy Chayefsky it explores an incredible number of family issues in a wonderful movie
George C Scott is trying to understand who in the madhouse is the sane one.

 

[Emeritus]

• Female borderlines are in the mental health system; male borderlines are in jail.

Or in politics

 

[Nords]

It seems Navy pays to send divorced spouses (and dogs and cats) back to mainland.

It got very bad very quickly when DoD stopped paying to ship pets back to the U.S. It turns out that the shipping expense is a lot cheaper than the negative publicity.

It's probably the same with divorced spouses...

 

[Emeritus]

It got very bad very quickly when DoD stopped paying to ship pets back to the U.S. It turns out that the shipping expense is a lot cheaper than the negative publicity.

It's probably the same with divorced spouses...

they save money by using the same cargo containers

 

[Tigger]

This discussion is a bit one-sided. Has anybody disconnected from YOU?

My first SO did after our breakup. I certainly carry a good deal of the blame for the breakup, but I think there's more to it and she may have borderline.

Her thinking had always been very black and white and she has a history of blocking out close family members for years at a time and always ended up permanently blocking out her best friends.

Life with her was very frustrating, but I miss her. Not being able to stay in touch hurts because regardless of her defects, she was my favorite person.

 

[Khan]

It got very bad very quickly when DoD stopped paying to ship pets back to the U.S. It turns out that the shipping expense is a lot cheaper than the negative publicity.

It's probably the same with divorced spouses...

Sister's cats went from Guam to Hawaii to Seattle to Mobile; and spent many years in Gulf Shores AL chasing lizards.

I don't know about her ex.

 

[Nords]

... and spent many years in Gulf Shores AL chasing lizards.
I don't know about her ex.

Zing! Good one!

 

[Automatika]

They say "fences make good neighbors", I would extend that to "distance makes good families". I get along fine with my relatives but I have the feeling that if we all lived in the same town things might not be as enjoyable when we get together.

 

[Nords]

They say "fences make good neighbors", I would extend that to "distance makes good families".

Five time zones has proven to be about right for us.

Luckily we got the Hawaii end of that deal.

 

[Khan]

Five time zones has proven to be about right for us.

Luckily we got the Hawaii end of that deal.

Mother told me to live at least 400 miles from in-laws.

 

[Keim]

We live a six hour drive away from any family. I tend to think 4 hours would be a good distance. Close enough to visit for the weekend, far enough that it won't be unannounced.

With that said, you guys are making me think I won the family lottery. All isn't perfect, but love and mutual respect abound.