Haiti as a prelude to Armageddon

[LOL!]

Haiti appears to be a good prelude to Armageddon, just as Katrina was a few years ago. The world has, for all intents and purposes, ended for the residents of Port au Prince.

Has the earthquake in Haiti caused you to rethink your disaster plans?

We lived through a minor hurricane in 2008 which does not compare to these disasters. The solution for us was to get out a day or two after the damage to local government and services was apparent. It is not clear to me if the Haitians have anywhere to go because all the news coverage is concentrated on dead bodies in Port au Prince.

For Ike, we had no local news as well. The news coverage was mostly about Houston. We had no useful on-the-ground intelligence about when power might be restored, which stores were open with ice, water, food, and gasoline. There was just plain no info, so we left town.

For the Haitians, it appears that they are starting to leave town. For us, Dallas with water, food, gasoline and family was few hours away and easy.

Since the news coverage in Haiti that I see is all about death and destruction, it doesn't help me understand if the people have another part of Haiti with power, water, food that they can be transported to. Perhaps Haitians are so poor that they didn't have power or running clean water most of the time anyways, but I don't know.

Has the earthquake in Haiti caused you to rethink your disaster plans? I would think that everyone in California would want to have plan on how to get out if the Big One hit. Do city dwellers have a contingency plan to go to relatives hundreds of miles away? Could you get there?

 

[ziggy29]

We fled Rita in 2005, a month after Katrina, about 36 hours before landfall when the forecast track had it as a cat 5 headed right for Galveston. (As it turned out, it veered northeast and weakened to a 3.) A lot of folks would dispute that "few hours to Dallas" being easy. Many fleeing the Houston area along I-45 (among other routes inland) we stuck on a parking lot of a highway, running out of gas, and as I recall one bus blew up, caught fire and killed several people.

We were in Houston when Rita hit and we knew a fair people in Texas who were inland. When we saw that "cat 5 toward Galveston" forecast, we sent out an online "APB" to friends all over the state seeing if anyone could help. We found friends in Austin who let us cram our valuables, our irreplaceable stuff and our two cats (we didn't have the dog yet) and borrow a bedroom for a few days.

When we went back home there were downed tree branches everywhere... but the only damage to our house was that the rooftop satellite dish was knocked over.

Still, the point is taken that even the unfortunate victims in a more prosperous and affluent country might have a future to build on. Many of them may have had decent means, had insurance and adequate building codes. And yet at the same time, it's all relative. When you've known misery all your life, maybe misery doesn't feel as *miserable* it just feels like life. Having been fortunate enough to never live that way, I can only speculate.

 

[CuppaJoe]

I try to keep stocked with canned goods and fill plastic kitty litter containers with water (for flushing and washing) besides keeping lots of bottled water around. There are good guidelines at this site:

Are you prepared?

 

[ls99]

The disaster pplanning begun a year or two before retirement. It included primarily moving.

In that spirit where we now live is relatively low population, many farms, no earthquakes, tornadoes, collapsing coal mines or avalanches. At least two large mountain ranges and more than 250 miles from the Washimore DC targets. No high density people targets save Wallyworld 18 miles away. Life is peaceful and good.

Keep cash handy, if stuff happens, can always trade skilled electromechanical or pure labor etc. with friendly farmers for food.

Still have my Y2K preparedness two pronged weenie roaster (unused) hanging next to the stove. There is always the deer that hang out back if push comes to shove. Keep up with target practice. And always re-stock the ammo.

Another words, we are ready.

 

[LOL!]

If you had a plan to drive to Dallas, it was easy. It wasn't easy for the folks without a plan that left in panic at the wrong time.

It seems that part of plan is to be able to re-locate geographically to a place well outside the affected area. That means not only setting up the location in advance, but also making sure you have a viable plan to get there. If that means you carry a chainsaw, a shotgun, and extra gas, then that's OK.

Certainly the Houston authorities have already pre-arranged for shelters for its citizens in other Texas cities. This was demonstrated during Ike.

The link provided by CuppaJoe is excellent, but only good for what I would consider minor emergencies lasting 72 hours are so.

 

[ziggy29]

If you had a plan to drive to Dallas, it was easy. It wasn't easy for the folks without a plan that left in panic at the wrong time.

Guess it depends on "plan." We had no plan to evacuate to Austin, but I "planned" just enough to know that the freeways were clogged and not many people were leaving at midnight. Between those two points, we left shortly after midnight and zig-zagged across lightly used two-lane farm-to-market roads most of the way into Austin.

When Rita was still way out on the gulf (it hit on a Friday as I recall), the preceding Monday I went to the grocery store and bought jugs of drinking water, some canned goods and a few other things just in case. Also filled up the gas tank the following day. If that qualifies as a "plan," at least even a meager or partial one, so be it. Where we live now there isn't a high risk of any natural disasters I'm aware of; there is moderate tornado risk but that's probably about it. (In the plains of Texas farther north, the tornado risk is MUCH higher.)

 

[CuppaJoe]

I....

The link provided by CuppaJoe is excellent, but only good for what I would consider minor emergencies lasting 72 hours are so.

LOL!, as I understand it 72hours.org is for the big one, to wait out a disaster in place. The idea is that there will be no gas, electric, water, food, medical care, gasoline, cabs, transit, stores, etc. for several days (or longer); gridlock will prevent evacuation. We see that on a big scale in many disasters, it takes a lot of time to get the red cross, etc. in to help. I could give a lot of city tips but some of them are inappropriate for the internet. One thing we learned from 911 is to always wear (or carry) sensible walking shoes and carry water. Altogether now, “these boots were made for walking.”

 

[brewer12345]

9/11 was one wakeup call for me, Katrina was another. Within a year of 9/11 we were in contract on a house in NJ. That may not seem like much, but being on an island downwind of the smoke from the towers convinced me that I did not want bridges, tunnels and millions of people between me and the countryside.

When Katrina hit, I realized that we were woefully underprepared. I bought a case of MREs, picked up a water filter, started keeping extra water around, etc. We live near a lake, so in a pinch we have access to plenty of water. I also partially justified the purchase of the camper as an escape pod/self-sufficient emergency dwelling.

Lately, I have been seriously considering getting my hands on a firearm. This is a colossal PITA in NJ and will cause a big fight with DW. If I end up not winning the argument, I will have to decide whether to do it anyway (and hide it) or make due with a tune up for my compound bow (and getting a set of broadheads).

 

[DangerMouse]

Truthfully I had never thought of even getting an emergency kit together since we moved to SV. I was in San Francisco for the big one in 1989 and it was amazing how quickly our lives returned to normal, yet there was so much devastation around us.

 

[haha]

Earthquakes are special because big ones tear up the roads. And because many earthquake prone cities are hard to get into and out of in the best of circumstances. Speaking about Seattle, in a truly big earthquake, bridges and viaducts would come down, dams would fail, rock and mud and snow slides would close the few mountain passes out of here to the east, leaving only I5 north and south. Even if that were not flooded or crumpled, you can hardly get around on I-5 at mid-day. IMO the only way to leave here after a big quake would be a helicopter or a boat, possibly a mountain bike or off-road cycle and some extra gas.

So for most of us it would boil down to survival in place for a while. It would be tough for me, as I really have almost no storage space, and living in an apartment I am not in control of my infrastructure. I think we should have a family meeting and make plans to gather at someone's place.

The success the Korean shopowners had in defending their stores during the South LA riots after the "Can't we all get along" fracas shows that it can be done. It definitely helps to have some mates with good firearms skills, and a few assault rifles and cases of .223 rounds and high capacity magazines would not hurt. Skill with IED construction and placement would be nice, but remember to warn the UPS guy and Amazon Fresh.

Ha

 

[CuppaJoe]

....

Lately, I have been seriously considering getting my hands on a firearm....

One obverse to that idea is to not light a candle after the disaster in hopes that the gun-wielding maniacs will look for an easier target, like folks at the dinning room table. Don't look like you are prepared; let the neighbors think you have no supplies.

My cousin lost a son that way, Brewer, it's really hard to remember to lock up the gun after a camping trip. But I think letting people think you have one is a good idea. I wouldn't object.

 

[haha]

My cousin lost a son that way, Brewer, it's really hard to remember to lock up the gun after a camping trip.

Cuppa, what a tragedy.

I know this happens, but I can never understand it. I was a city kid, but my mother's brother and sister raised big families in the country, back when it really was country. Inside the kitchen door were always a couple of shotguns and a .22 and on a shelf above were shells and rounds for the .22. None of us kids woud ever have even considered picking up a gun. We had seen what they do to rabbits and quail and squirrels. You rarely even heard of hunting accidents back then, because hunters tended to be experienced country people and not drunks. Another factor I think was they all had either single or double break-breech guns, which were easy to open when crossing fences, logs, etc, and so people did it.

Later when I started hunting with city people I saw more autoloaders and pumps, and these were sometimes hard to open without getting your shells lost in the snow. So some people didn't open them. I quit hunting with these type of people.

Anyway, today it is the law in most places that you must have your guns locked in a safe, or use trigger guards or both.

Ha

 

[mickeyd]

The problems that Haiti has are monumental and I am glad that the USA is there to take charge and help out all of those folks.

I sure hope, though, that we will not assume the roll of taking over and rebuilding the country. We will be in there for the next 20+ years if we do. Pass the ball to the UN ASAP.

 

[CuppaJoe]

I only mentioned that because the unthinkable does happen and being prepared is a good idea. I hope this thread doesn't go off into an NRA rant as there are so many basic preparedness ideas we could discuss.

 

[brewer12345]

One obverse to that idea is to not light a candle after the disaster in hopes that the gun-wielding maniacs will look for an easier target, like folks at the dinning room table. Don't look like you are prepared; let the neighbors think you have no supplies.

My cousin lost a son that way, Brewer, it's really hard to remember to lock up the gun after a camping trip. But I think letting people think you have one is a good idea. I wouldn't object.

Eh,aside from the camper, what I have is buried in the basement or pantry. Since I live in a not very dense suburban area, I would be happy to share with my neighbors. A 50# sack of wheat malt (intended for brewing) would go a long way in feeding the 'hood in a pinch.

As far as firearms go, it is unlikely they would be a plaything for me. Finding a place to shoot on a regular basis would be difficult/painful. It would be more of a "in case of emergency, break glass" type thing. This sort of thing might fit the bill nicely: O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. - Firearms, Shotguns, Rifles, Accessories, and Precision Machining

 

[haha]

I only mentioned that because the unthinkable does happen and being prepared is a good idea. I hope this thread doesn't go off into an NRA rant as there are so many basic preparedness ideas we could discuss.

I hope the NRA rant-bar isn't set so low that my true personal stories fail to pass. You may see that I mentioned that guns must be locked up in a safe to be legal.

If the furum doesn't want to allow all sides of gun discussions, why not just ban all discussion of guns?

Ha

 

[unclemick]

Hmmm - some Columbia river flooding, two earthquakes, and I moved before St Helens. More flood during tropical storms on Lake Ponchartrain, 95 a tornado took the roof off while we were in the house and Katrina caused a 1000 mile move inland to Missouri where a 2007 ice storm left us without power for a week.

That's entertainment. Agile, mobile and hostile.

You want life to be boring?

heh heh heh - Come to think of it Colorado was kinda of boring - except for a couple blizzards on I-80 driving back and forth to the PacNW in Dec and Jan. back in the 70's.

My guns went in Katrina - but I really miss my handheld crossbow.

 

[NW-Bound]

You want life to be boring?

Yes. I have had my share of excitement.

 

[LOL!]

We've discussed the 'shelter in place' and 'food storage' many times here after simple disasters. I was trying to get this thread to go to the Apocalypse and Armageddon stage of disasters like Tom Cruise in the modern "War of the Worlds" with massive movement of humanity out of the disaster region.

Do you have plans to leave? Where would you go? How would you get there with roads damaged or blocked?

 

[brewer12345]

We've discussed the 'shelter in place' and 'food storage' many times here after simple disasters. I was trying to get this thread to go to the Apocalypse and Armageddon stage of disasters like Tom Cruise in the modern "War of the Worlds" with massive movement of humanity out of the disaster region.

Do you have plans to leave? Where would you go?

We are within 5 miles of the sea, so that is the likely cause of a need to evacuate (hurricane, etc.). A cat 5 hurricane making a direct hit is the likely scenario that would be most likely to force us to split. We would hitch up the trailer and head west/inland. As to where to go, well, I imagine central PA would be far enough in that case. We would find somewhere to set up camp until it was safe to go back home.

 

[NW-Bound]

Seeing Ha's vision of Seattle in an earthquake, I am going to stay right here in AZ.

 

[brewer12345]

Seeing Ha's vision of Seattle in an earthquake, I am going to stay right here in AZ.

That will be a major factor in deciding where to relocate to when we retire. Looking for a place with low disaster incidence and likely consequences.

 

[W2R]

Frank and I saw everything, too much, in the days following Katrina here in New Orleans. It was worse than the worst disaster movie you have ever seen, and impossible to describe completely to those who weren't living here and also present here during those dark days. The destruction and misery was beyond my capacity to articulate. I just cannot bring myself to watch the television coverage in Haiti. It is an absolute nightmare.

You can't avoid disasters or effectively protect your life and property from the effects of mega-disasters, in my opinion. Many people here have a second home, or camp, to which they can go for hurricane evacuations and live comfortably until things improve and they can rebuild in New Orleans. Now that I am retired and free to live anywhere I wish, I would rather just go ahead and move to a place where future disasters are less probable. Taking the job in New Orleans was like playing the slots... we all knew it was shaped like a soupbowl and that someday "The Big One" would come. We just hoped it wouldn't in our lifetimes and that if it did, the levees would hold.

 

[Goonie]

.........Haiti appears to be a good prelude to Armageddon, just as Katrina was a few years ago. The world has, for all intents and purposes, ended for the residents of Port Au Prince...........

.........Since the news coverage in Haiti that I see is all about death and destruction, it doesn't help me understand if the people have another part of Haiti with power, water, food that they can be transported to. Perhaps Haitians are so poor that they didn't have power or running clean water most of the time anyways, but I don't know.........

I spent some time in Haiti back in the late 80's, and stayed in a fairly nice French-owned hotel there....which I believe has been severely damaged or leveled this week. We went to many places all over the country, from the heart of Port Au Prince, to tiny villages up the coast. It doesn't matter where you travel there....poverty is rampant!!! For a large portion of the population, running water and electricity are only dreamed about....and that includes a very large portion of those living in Port Au Prince! Hundreds of thousands of people lived in shacks made from wooden pallets (and similar wood), cardboard, tin or sheet metal, and tarp, sheets, blankets....or whatever! Water was carried in buckets and jugs from creeks or streams, the sea, or wherever they could find it...we even saw people lowering buckets down into sewer manholes, to get water for God only knows what!

At the other end of the spectrum were the houses and apartments of those who had the financial means to live a better life style. Most populated areas that we visited had the modern conveniences of water, sewer, electricity, telephone service, etc. Our hotel was one of the nicer ones in the capital city, and was what you'd expect from a nice hotel here in the States...clean, comfortable, good food, etc. However.....every afternoon around 3 or 4 p.m., the electricity went out.....throughout the entire area of the hotel. Don't know why...it just did! And the hotel staff made everyone aware of that when we arrived...it was a standard occurrence. Also, the water in the hotel (sinks, showers, toilets, etc.) was NOT potable water....they had Culligan for their potable water usage! There was NO potable municipal water supply in that area of town....and it was one of the 'upscale' areas of Port Au Prince.

Those who owned 'brick & mortar' homes or businesses, probably had most, if not all of their money invested in that property. So to see the damage and destruction left behind by this week's 'quake, has left hundreds of thousand in deep despair, because that was all they had....and now it's gone! Homeowners insurance? Um....very seriously doubt it!!!

As for those leaving Port Au Prince, and heading out into the countryside....they will probably find things a little better out there. Less death and destruction....less corpses piled up (thus less stench). And, as I found with the Haitian people, they will probably have some hope of having food to eat, and safe place to sleep. Most of the folks we met in the villages out in the boonies, were very friendly and willing to share whatever little they had, with others...whether fellow Haitians or visitors from afar. They are a very proud, yet very humble and congenial people.

I heard a news correspondent on the news last night, and she was talking about how awful the smell was in Port Au Prince....the stench of open sewers, the wood smoke from the cooking fires, the diesel exhaust fumes from the trucks, buses, and heavy equipment....and then she adds as an after thought "and then the smell of decaying flesh too." Well...obviously this was her first visit to Haiti! The 'stench' that she describes, with the exception of the decaying flesh, is what Port Au Prince normally smelled like when we were there! The more affluent areas smelled mainly of exhaust fumes and wood smoke....while the poorer areas smelled mainly of raw sewage and wood smoke. Same odors, different proportions was all.

The Haitian people have had a long history of hardship, but have always banded together and made the best of it, and gone forward. And I believe that they will struggle through this tragedy also, and band together, and eventually move forward and rebuild their lives and buildings. But it's going to be a looooong hard road the entire way!

BTW....I'm still waiting to hear word about Haitian friend and his family in the Port Au Prince area......I 'think' he was out in the countryside when the quake happened...but I'm not positive.

 

[donheff]

I am fairly well prepared for a limited disaster and have options on where to go. If worse came to worse (e.g. dirty bomb makes the neighborhood uninhabitable) I could afford to just uproot myself and settle down somewhere else. The big worry in DC is a nuke. I have no plan for a response to that - should I survive I will play it by ear.