Hard drive mirror/back-up question

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Ah hah...that explains it. I'm running PRO, not home.

Nice of the redmondians to throw in little dumb differences like that. And its why I dont run home, there are a nice marketing driven dozen or so little gotchas that work in pro and not in home. :

 

[Brit]

Just installed another hard drive for back up, but for some reason when I reboot Win XP it does not recognize the CD player. If I leave a CD in the drive it will appear on reboot. Or if I re-scan from system it re-appears.

Any suggestions.

Both hard drives are on the primary
DVD and CD Rom on secondary.

Brit

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Tell me what kind of system it is and what all is in it.

Either you've got a mixup in master/slave strapping of the drives, or more likely your power supply isnt up to muster to run all that stuff. If you just muttered "what the heck is a 'master' and 'slave'?, then thats the problem...on each IDE channel, one drive is jumpered as 'master' and one as 'slave'. See the sticker on the drive or the user manual to determine how to set the jumpers, and then double check them. I've also seen charts on drives that were completely wrong, so check the manufacturers web sites. Samsung is famous for that one...

Power supply problems can make for some interesting times, especially in startup problems...when everything first spins up, especially hard drives, the upfront drain on the power supply is substantial.

This is one thing that separates inexpensive computers from more expensive ones...two 300w power supplies are NOT created equal. Some can sustain full output in all conditions, some swoon on startup and can be counted on to provide as little as half their rated power under anything other than ideal (unloaded) conditions.

The good news, if this is the problem, is that a quality power supply is neither expensive nor hard to install. Fotron and Antec make some good ones, although you can easily spend more. I've seen some nice Antec cases WITH a 330-400w power supply in the $30-80 range. But thats quite a transplant job...

To see if its a power supply problem...disconnect the power to your new hard drive and fire up the machine...if the cd is recognized okay, you dont have enough juice. If its still not working, then to see if its a jumpering problem, remove power and IDE cables from the DVD drive, power up and see if you can see the cd.

If neither of those solves it, then I need more info.

 

[Brit]

Well TH again thank you for your reply.

The system is as follows:-
AMD 1800 Athlon
Chipset SiS730
2 hard drives on Primary ( jumpers correct master/slave etc.) C:/G:
DVD and CD on Secondary( jumpers correct master/slave etc.) D:/E:
USB hard drive .(my Quicken removable drive.) F:

Voltages are OK.

If I take out the new hard drive then reboot the computer the CD re-appears. When I reconnect the hard drive and reboot it disappears. All correct drive letters stay the same. I can get it back by re- scanning in the the device manager. Also I found out that if I leave a CD in the drive it will recognize the CD drive on reboot.

On boot up I can see the 2 drives and DVD, CD are recognized by the e-prom, so it seems to be an XP problem.
I have the home version.
Brit

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well TH again thank you for your reply.

The system is as follows:-
AMD 1800 Athlon
Chipset SiS730
2 hard drives on Primary ( jumpers correct master/slave etc.) C:/G:
DVD and CD on Secondary( jumpers correct master/slave etc.) D:/E:
USB hard drive .(my Quicken removable drive.) F:

Voltages are OK.

If I take out the new hard drive then reboot the computer the CD re-appears. When I reconnect the hard drive and reboot it disappears. All correct drive letters stay the same. I can get it back by re- scanning in the the device manager. Also I found out that if I leave a CD in the drive it will recognize the CD drive on reboot.

On boot up I can see the 2 drives and DVD, CD are recognized by the e-prom, so it seems to be an XP problem.
I have the home version.
Brit

You likely have a power problem...the voltage levels dont mean anything. Can you tell me what the wattage is on your power supply and the manufacturer?

What expansion cards do you have in the system? Some high end video cards can be hogs.

Here's whats happening...without the new hard drive, you have enough PS capacity to power and spin up everything...hard drives and cd/dvd drives take a lot of startup juice to spin up, and thats when the well runs dry. Without that new hard drive, no problem...with it, the cd/dvd drives try to spin up and select media...when the power runs dry, the last unit (the cd) isnt seen, so XP doesnt install it. Later, after boot up when you rescan, the power supply is no longer overburdened so it can see and select the drive.

In very large machines, such as servers, the system hardware frequently has circuitry to step start drives one after the next to avoid the single mass surge on startup.

Let me get one other thing straight...which drives are connected to which controller channel? Looks like you have both hard drives as primary on separate channels and both optical disks as the secondaries?

Just to be clear, you DO want the main and backup hard drives on separate channels if possible...you DO want the main hard drive and any optical drives you WRITE to to be on different ones. So if the dvd and main hard drive are on one channel, and the dvd is a read-only drive, then this is good. If the dvd is a writeable drive, or the cd is on the same channel as the main hard drive, this is not desireable.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

TH: You're right on with advice. (I haven't a clue

I actually have a simple question to ask you, but first, so you'll know what you're up against, I'll give you a little background.

My wife and I had never used a computer, and in fact had never seen the internet. After a long time listening to our daughters about coming out of the dark ages, so they could communicate with us via E-mail, (had no idea what that was), we decided about two years ago to go ahead and buy a computer.
We were both like a couple of deer caught in the headlights, as this young man was showing us all the different models and features. I finally said "son, we came here to buy a computer, and you are going to have to make it sound a whole lot simpler to get the job done. Let's zero in on one that's not too expensive, and has the features we want. We settled on one, and on the way home, I remarked to my wife, "I think that
we probably made a dumb decision to buy a computer".
I hooked it up, and my wife went to it like a duck to water.
I couldn't type, so my wife had an old electric typewriter, and she taught me how to type on it.
O.K., so now that you know what you're dealing with (Freddy Flintstone), I have a question for you. Be gentle.
The computer generally works fine, but it seems like about 2 out of 3 times that I attempt to first get on the internet, it sits there like a bump on a log will have to start over again. Did I understand you right, in that we might have a power problem that could be corrected?
Thanks, Jarhead

Jarhead...thats a tough one but not unsolveable...I dont think you've got a power issue necessarily. Tell me step by step what you do and where it sticks.

 

[Brit]

Thanks TH
You are right, I measured the start up Voltage with a Digital meter and it dipped slightly from 12V to 11.8V on start up, I should have measured the current drain. Although I did have an old 2Gig Western Digital drive in the same spot before I upgraded to a 80gig. I would like to have the hard drives on separate channels but the way the system is set up the 2 optical are mounted together and the 2 hard drives are well below in a cage, so split cabling could be done but I would have to make them myself. It is a small tower case. I must admit the system was a Fry's special about 2 years ago, but has worked fine for what I have used it for.

Thanks again, Brit

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Glad to be of service! Yep, the Fry's specials are usually a decent good sized case with an inexpensive OEM power supply. And over-driven power supplies weaken over time. That 80GB drive probably has 2-3 platters in it, whereas your older little drive may have only had one. Some old drives also had startup delay circuitry built in as power supplies in those days were small and weak.

I had one PS that must have had a large oil filled capacitor in it as it started leaking oil down into the bottom of the case after I put too many hard drives in it. Time for a joke and your handle certainly fits. My first thought was "Finally! The brits must have gone past building cars and are now making computer parts...they were holding out until they could figure out how to make them leak oil!" This is a lot funnier if you've ever owned a Jaguar.

If you ever have a machine that starts getting weird after you add a new peripheral, or a pretty full machine that starts exhibiting odd intermittent problems...the PS is a good suspect.

The hard drives on the same channel isnt the end of the world, it'll just be slower...having a writeable optical drive on the same channel with the main hard drive might create problems in writing to the optical...so your setup is a-ok.

Check out the wattage on your supply's label...might be a 230 or 250 or even a 300 that doesnt really produce 300w. I saw a 'power supply shootout' a year or two ago that revealed that many power supplies just dont cut it and produce less than half their advertised wattage.

Head back to fry's and pick up a Fortron or Antec 300W to 400W supply. Enermax's arent too bad either. Quiet, smooth, clean power. Last time I was at Fry's they sold both brands. You can pay more, but its not worth it IMO.

If you dont feel like shopping, these look ok...note I havent built an AMD machine, so I'm not 100% sure of the power requirements for your motherboard...if its a standard ATX (and it should be), then these will work...bet they also make your system run quieter.

$27 - A 300W supply that produces ~367 under load: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-937&depa=0

$40 - A 350W supply that produces 413 under load: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-966&depa=0

Nice part about the Fortrons is that they usually put out 25-50W more than they're specified to...and you'll find a lot of very expensive boutique-y power supplies are simply Fortrons with a different case on them.

If you've installed a hard drive, you can install a power supply. Its usually disconnect all the connections from it, unscrew 3-6 screws, take it out, put the new one in, reconnect all the wires.

 

[Brit]

Th,
Don't forget Lucas the prince of darkness.

I could not figure out why cars in England seemed to run fine but as soon as they came here they fell apart. Although a car in England back then (30 years ago.) rusted after 3 years, and it always rained so you could not see any oil leaks on the wet roads. I used to use Castrol vegetable oil , I always remember that exhaust smell.

Brit.

 

[panhead]

Ah yes, Lucas electric... My favorite T-shirt had a 3-position switch with the positions labeled: off-dim-flicker !! Love that ! Actually, I now own 2 MGs (a 52 and a 79) and have owned/ridden BSA, Triumph, and Norton motorcycles and have had very good luck with them in general ! They are great bikes and good cars, but you have to keep in mind this comes from someone who rides a Harley....

-pan-