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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:10 AM   #61
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Re: Horrifying

Blame the mayor of NO and the LA governor (both democrats : ). They should have known of the potential for this and planned accordingly. The president's job is to run the nation, not New Orleans. Couldn't NO and LA have gotten together and figured out how they were going to deal with this inevitability?

It seems like not many of you complaining about the relief effort have ever been through a hurricane before. I’ve been through a few decent sized hurricanes before. We were 100 miles inland, and the storm was much much weaker than Katrina. And we’re above sea level. The damage we sustained was no where near as bad as Katrina’s damage. However, conditions were bad. No electricity for weeks, no gas, no food or water (except what you had before the storm). Many homes destroyed or rendered uninhabitable. It took a while for authorities to stabilize our relatively minor disaster. I can only imagine the logistical nightmare it must be to try to deal with 100,000-250,000 survivors/refugees, arm an assault force against roaming mobs of armed crazies, perform search and rescue in the midst of all this. The area is basically a third world country now. The infrastructure for transportation, communication, fuel, medical care, food, electricity, potable water, sewage, etc. are all gone. The environment in New Orleans is much worse than around NYC after 9/11. NYC was intact for the most part, with the exception of the World Trade Center site and surrounding area.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:11 AM   #62
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie
I live in a southern state...my husband and I worked last night in a refugee shelter--and we're going back tonight and tomorrow, etc. etc. *

*
Good for you, Leslie. Part of what is so frustrating for those of us who don't live anywhere nearby is that there isn't much we can do except donate funds.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:13 AM   #63
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Blame the mayor of NO and the LA governor (both democrats : ).* They should have known of the potential for this and planned accordingly.* The president's job is to run the nation, not New Orleans.* Couldn't NO and LA have gotten together and figured out how they were going to deal with this inevitability?*

It seems like not many of you complaining about the relief effort have ever been through a hurricane before.* I’ve been through a few decent sized hurricanes before.* We were 100 miles inland, and the storm was much much weaker than Katrina.* And we’re above sea level.* *The damage we sustained was no where near as bad as Katrina’s damage.* However, conditions were bad.* No electricity for weeks, no gas, no food or water (except what you had before the storm).* Many homes destroyed or rendered uninhabitable.* It took a while for authorities to stabilize our relatively minor disaster.* I can only imagine the logistical nightmare it must be to try to deal with 100,000-250,000 survivors/refugees, arm an assault force against roaming mobs of armed crazies, perform search and rescue in the midst of all this.* The area is basically a third world country now.* The infrastructure for transportation, communication, fuel, medical care, food, electricity, potable water, sewage, etc. are all gone.* The environment in New Orleans is much worse than around NYC after 9/11.* NYC was intact for the most part, with the exception of the World Trade Center site and surrounding area.
I said it before and I will say it again: here is FEMA? What the hell is FEMA doing? The evacuation order should have been given earlier, but the recovery via the FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY is a disgrace thus far. Why is this? The agency was absorbed into the department of homeland pork security and subsequently gutted. Guess who allowed that to happen?
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:14 AM   #64
 
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Re: Horrifying

There's got to be more than one jonesing crack addict out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshac
So you're sayin that you would rather have Cheney as president?
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:14 AM   #65
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Re: Horrifying

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Originally Posted by Marshac
So you're sayin that you would rather have Cheney as president?
Not particularly, but truly evil smart people are sometimes more useful than evil dumb people.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:18 AM   #66
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie
I live in a southern state...my husband and I worked last night in a refugee shelter--and we're going back tonight and tomorrow, etc. etc. *

Rather than criticize the current regime (there will be time for all of that later), the best thing to do now is to donate your time, your money or your prayers. *

I really did think though that there would be more organization in a city that is supposed to expect this sort of thing--the whole shelter affair is an exercise in "winging it." *It was sobering to say the least.

*
Right on , right on.
Donated to ARC, online. *Easy to do. Just need the 3 c's, a Computer, Credit card and Compassion.
Dw and I will work at the shelter in upcoming days. *

If I were King of the world- - -One of the first rules I would impose would be no bitchin without a ticket. *To get a ticket you must first do something, no matter how small, about the problem your bitchin about.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:20 AM   #67
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Blame the mayor of NO and the LA governor (both democrats : ). They should have known of the potential for this and planned accordingly. The president's job is to run the nation, not New Orleans. Couldn't NO and LA have gotten together and figured out how they were going to deal with this inevitability?

It seems like not many of you complaining about the relief effort have ever been through a hurricane before. I’ve been through a few decent sized hurricanes before. We were 100 miles inland, and the storm was much much weaker than Katrina. And we’re above sea level. The damage we sustained was no where near as bad as Katrina’s damage. However, conditions were bad. No electricity for weeks, no gas, no food or water (except what you had before the storm). Many homes destroyed or rendered uninhabitable. It took a while for authorities to stabilize our relatively minor disaster. I can only imagine the logistical nightmare it must be to try to deal with 100,000-250,000 survivors/refugees, arm an assault force against roaming mobs of armed crazies, perform search and rescue in the midst of all this. The area is basically a third world country now. The infrastructure for transportation, communication, fuel, medical care, food, electricity, potable water, sewage, etc. are all gone. The environment in New Orleans is much worse than around NYC after 9/11. NYC was intact for the most part, with the exception of the World Trade Center site and surrounding area.
They tried, but the Feds pulled the funding, read Marshac's post at the beginning of the thread.

But politics aside, I was at the epicenter of the Northridge Earthquake, our house literally cracked in half. Gas stations became infernos, no water, roads impassible, etc. etc. Now I know that disaster doesn't compare to the magnitude of this one, but we had national guard on the streets within 24 hours. Water trucks were put in place for us to fill up, and those who needed medical attention got it right away. Now we didn't have power or running water for weeks, but nobody was getting raped in the streets! No matter what press releases come out of Pentagon, White House, Congress etc., only the most optimistic (naive) person would not thing this war has stretched our forces too thin. Luisiana and Mississippi are two of the poorest states, no way they could handle a multi billion dollar project on their own.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:22 AM   #68
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPatrick
If I were King of the world- - -One of the first rules I would impose would be no bitchin without a ticket. *To get a ticket you must first do something, no matter how small, about the problem your bitchin about.
I like it!
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:26 AM   #69
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Re: Horrifying

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No matter how well you plan there will always be major logistics issues with helping people in these areas; the bigger the mess the harder it is to get in to help people.
With all due respect to you -- and to those others who are justifiably enraged over this nightmare, a lot of this COULD have been prevented. *This "mess" didn't have to be this big in the first place. *What is unjustifiable is that terrible tragedies like this don't seem to lead to any learning on the part of our government, or to any changes for the better.

If you looked at the link to the NOVA hurricane program I attached earlier, you saw that New Orleans USED to be protected by miles of wetlands that blunted the energy of any hurricane that threatened it. *But those wetlands are all but gone -- the Gulf is 30 miles closer to NO than it was just a few decades ago! * This is not unlike the mudslides due to deforestation out here in Northern California -- why are our elected officials still working AGAINST environmental protections?

You also saw that Hurricane Eric threatened the city just last year and caused its evacuation -- where was the post-mortem on that effort? *Was there no one to say "even in a full evacuation we had 250K people who didn't make it out - what are our plans to evacuate these folks next time around?"

We heard from a man who was told to wait for busses that never came. *Why not?

Failing all of that, we KNOW that hurricanes hit that region every year. *You only have to look east to Florida to see the result. *Why isn't the stadium stocked with food every season against just such an event or -- if that won't work -- why wasn't food and water staged in the stadium a few days before the storm hit? *

I watched the Tsunami relief effort on the news and thanked my lucky stars to live in America, where any disaster would be followed by immediate aid and comfort. *

How smug I was, and how very, very wrong.







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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:27 AM   #70
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Re: Horrifying

Pullin' a JG here (where is he?):

During the San Diego firestorms, many of our neighbors were burnt out of their homes, our church became a hub for relief activities, all home grown. I worked the care package desk (hotel voucher, foodstuffs, resturant coupons, pocket cash, etc.) and DW worked the clothes/toys area. We would have people come up to us, still covered in soot, telling us the Red Cross turned them away. Why? Because they had no proof of residency (it burned up) or they admitted someone had helped them already (like a free meal).
...come to find out later a lot of money that was donated to them was pocketed for "future needs and overhead" instead of going to the victims.

Point: Just know where your money is going, volunteer in person if you can like Leslie's family. We are going to let the dust settle a little bit and cut a large check to the service that is doing the most long term good. These people will need help for months at least.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:27 AM   #71
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPatrick
If I were King of the world- - -One of the first rules I would impose would be no bitchin without a ticket. To get a ticket you must first do something, no matter how small, about the problem your bitchin about.
Soon as I got my ticket I would bitch about you being King of the World.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:28 AM   #72
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by tozz
There's got to be more than one jonesing crack addict out there.
And just how far down the list would you like to go?

Presidential Succession

1. Vice-President (Cheney)
2. Speaker of the House (Hastert)
3. President Pro Tempore of the Senate (Stevens)
4. Secretary of State (Rice)
5. Secretary of the Treasury (Snow)
6. Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld)


Wait, let me guess. Just far enough for the addict to score some snow...

REW

PS I bought a ticket from the Red Cross on Tuesday.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:29 AM   #73
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Re: Horrifying

I'm watching CNN with W and the governors congratulating each other on what a great job they are doing on relief. It makes me sick. Reminds me of the lies the gov't told during Viet Nam.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:30 AM   #74
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
During the San Diego firestorms
Speaking of firestorm, this thread has exploded! All I have to do is refresh and *boom* 3 more posts!
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:31 AM   #75
 
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Re: Horrifying

Looks like we might run out of jonesing crack addicts before we worked our way through this administration.

Damn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
And just how far down the list would you like to go?

Presidential Succession

1.* *Vice-President (Cheney)
2.* *Speaker of the House (Hastert)
3.* *President Pro Tempore of the Senate (Stevens)
4.* *Secretary of State (Rice)
5.* *Secretary of the Treasury (Snow)
6.* *Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld)
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:31 AM   #76
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Soon as I got my ticket I would bitch about you being King of the World.
Well isn't that a coincidence, we're fresh out of tickets.
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:34 AM   #77
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Re: Horrifying

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPatrick
Well isn't that a coincidence, we're fresh out of tickets.
Darn you KOW..who made you KOW and giver of tickets too!
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:34 AM   #78
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Re: Horrifying

If I were King of the world- - -One of the first rules I would impose would be no bitchin without a ticket. *To get a ticket you must first do something, no matter how small, about the problem your bitchin about. QUOTE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like it!
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Well thanks Marshac, that's one vote- -
NOW ITS ON TO NEBRASKA, AND SOUTH DAKOTA, THEN WE'RE GOING TO SOUTH CAROLINA *YEEEHAAAAAAWW!!!!!
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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:36 AM   #79
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Re: Horrifying

Here's a ticket for everyone to use

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Re: Horrifying
Old 09-02-2005, 10:37 AM   #80
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Re: Horrifying

Leslie, great to hear of your contribution ... you and Justin make my point as well ... there is plenty of blame to hand out and investigate.

Unfortunately, the world is indeed now getting a different perspective on our competence.


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/0...BAU248384.html

World stunned as US struggles with Katrina
Sep 02 10:08 AM US/Eastern
*

By Andrew Gray

LONDON (Reuters) - The world has watched amazed as the planet's only superpower struggles with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, with some saying the chaos has exposed flaws and deep divisions in American society.

World leaders and ordinary citizens have expressed sympathy with the people of the southern United States whose lives were devastated by the hurricane and the flooding that followed.

But many have also been shocked by the images of disorder beamed around the world -- looters roaming the debris-strewn streets and thousands of people gathered in New Orleans waiting for the authorities to provide food, water and other aid.

"Anarchy in the USA" declared Britain's best-selling newspaper The Sun.

"Apocalypse Now" headlined Germany's Handelsblatt daily.

The pictures of the catastrophe -- which has killed hundreds and possibly thousands -- have evoked memories of crises in the world's poorest nations such as last year's tsunami in Asia, which left more than 230,000 people dead or missing.

But some view the response to those disasters more favorably than the lawless aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

"I am absolutely disgusted. After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering," said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, as he watched a cricket match in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."

SINKING INTO ANARCHY

Many newspapers highlighted criticism of local and state authorities and of President Bush. Some compared the sputtering relief effort with the massive amounts of money and resources poured into the war in Iraq.

"A modern metropolis sinking in water and into anarchy -- it is a really cruel spectacle for a champion of security like Bush," France's left-leaning Liberation newspaper said.

"(Al Qaeda leader Osama) bin Laden, nice and dry in his hideaway, must be killing himself laughing."

A female employee at a multinational firm in South Korea said it may have been no accident the U.S. was hit.

"Maybe it was punishment for what it did to Iraq, which has a man-made disaster, not a natural disaster," said the woman, who did not want to be named as she has an American manager.

"A lot of the people I work with think this way. We spoke about it just the other day," she said.

Commentators noted the victims of the hurricane were overwhelmingly African Americans, too poor to flee the region as the hurricane loomed unlike some of their white neighbors.

New Orleans ranks fifth in the United States in terms of African American population and 67 percent of the city's residents are black.

"In one of the poorest states in the country, where black people earn half as much as white people, this has taken on a racial dimension," said a report in Britain's Guardian daily.

Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn, in a veiled criticism of U.S. political thought, said the disaster showed the need for a strong state that could help poor people.

"You see in this example that even in the 21st century you need the state, a good functioning state, and I hope that for all these people, these poor people, that the Americans will do their best," he told reporters at a European Union meeting in Newport, Wales.

David Fordham, 33, a hospital anesthetist speaking at a London underground rail station, said he had spent time in America and was not surprised the country had struggled to cope.

"Maybe they just thought they could sit it out and everything would be okay," he said.

"It's unbelievable though -- the TV images -- and your heart goes out to them."

(With reporting by Reuters bureaux around the world)

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