How do People Tolerate Flying?

Observation.

No data, just a gut feel:

Seems like folks on this site are more amenable to pay for FC/BC than when I first dropped in here several years ago.

Is the fact that economy class has gotten that much more intolerable?
Or are we having more money to spend?
Or is "blow that dough" more of a mindset than before?

Seems to be a mild abandonment of the LBYM 'make do' thinking I first encountered here back in the day.

Eight years ago, I would've been shocked to see anyone here say that they'd "pay for FC or stay home"
 
I think more people are paying for upgraded seats because they are less expensive compared with a decade ago.
 
I think more people are paying for upgraded seats because they are less expensive compared with a decade ago.

I'd guess the following chart might also have something to do with it :
 

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Depends on when and where you're planning to fly from. $8K for BC to Paris is steep. We generally pay about $3500 each RT from Boston to Paris/Europe but you do have to be careful about what days you fly. Being RE'd implies some flexibility with dates.

I agree. My RT from MCI to Edinburgh next month cost me $4,100 in Business Class. By coincidence, I'm flying Coach on Air France to Paris for a couple of days for another $185. It's just me, so I don't have to multiply by 2, but my pain threshold is about $4,000.

As for differences between now and the years of the financial meltdown- DH and I switched to Business Class on long hauls around that time. He was getting older and had a creaky back and was really too tall to fit in Coach seats. Fortunately I was still racking up miles from business travel so typically we were able to get at least one seat using miles. It still meant that we had to cut back to one major trip per year (yeah, play the world's smallest violin) but it was worth it to us.
 
I completely agree. I avoid flying whenever possible.
But when I have to, I made a vow last year to fly first from then on. I'm sticking with it. The last two flights my DW and I flew on were in first, and the contrast was like night and day. First to board, relax, spread out, sip a cocktail while the rest of the plane fills up. I refuse to be crammed like a sardine any more. I felt guilty while I watched others walk by, to be crammed into coach. But the feeling passed rather quickly.
Blow that dough. To me, this expense is worth it.
I agree. Spend the dough and treat yourself to First or Biz. We did and we will experience it for the first time this fall on our trip to Paris.
 
We need a thread or a link on how to get business/first class seats at a discount (notice I did not say cheap). I just did a kayak search and to go to Paris, economy is about $1,500 and business is over $8,000. I can appreciate that there are folks on this site that can afford that, but for those who say you’re only flying first class are you really paying that kind of premium, or are you finding ways to bring that cost difference down? I could see double, but 5 or 6 times the price? I could only do that once or twice in my life and that’s only financially speaking. Mentally, I’d struggle paying that kind of premium unless I had a lot more money than I’ll ever have.

In our business class purchases so far we paid no more than 2.5x economy prices. That’s usually what I consider “a good deal”. Days of the week can make a big difference, as can time of day.

This current trip I was planning to go economy plus, but the prices for the most convenient departure time weren’t as cheap as the other times, and flying first class later in the day albeit with a slightly tight connection, was less than $200 more than flying earlier E+, so that pretty much settled it considering that the second leg was over 4.5 hrs and offered a meal. That second leg was delayed anyway, so we got to relax in the quiet comfortable lounge where I like their Prosecco.
 
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I will gladly pay hand over fist for a luxury hotel - but I will save the flight upgrades for international, and even then look for ways to use points and stuff.

I'm 5'4", so I can tolerate a coach domestic seat more than most. I'd rather spend double on a hotel for a week, than 5x for a 5 hour flight. (ok I'd really rather do both, lol)
 
One other point for those who don't want to ante up for Business Class- on my last trip, which was to India, I used up most of my remaining pile of AA miles and still had only enough to fly Business on 3 legs of the trip, so I flew home from London in Coach. I paid a little extra (under $100) to choose my seat and got one just behind the bulkhead row with no seat in front of me. Infinite legroom and I didn't have to climb over people to get to the lav! Made a huge difference.

Another small extravagance is a day pass to an airline club. It's $50 or $60 per person but depending on the club there are free munchies, comfortable couches, open bar (the IcelandAir lounge put out Bailey's to add to your morning coffee!). SO civilized. Bonus:
when things go wrong the people in the airline lounge can work wonders if you're flying that airline.

I occasionally buy a day pass when I'm flying Coach and have a long layover.
 
To me flying is a fact of life . My daughter ,SIL and two grandsons live in New York while I live in Florida so no way would I stop flying but I make it easy on myself by upgrading when necessary .
 
My sympathies, Al. Flying has sure gone downhill during my lifetime. I used to love it, but that was then and this is now.

We haven't flown anywhere since my DD's wedding, back in 2009.

I remember being on a flight in the early '80s on a typical legacy carrier -- I forget which -- to Milwaukee. I was sitting in the back when I noticed that rookie Milwaukee Bucks forward/center Alton Lister was boarding.

Alton-freaking-Lister, a 7-foot, 240-pounder, was sitting in coach, and he looked like he was in reasonable comfort. Imagine sitting in a 3-across seat with a guy like that today.

On a happier note, the word is that a group of entrepreneurs is trying to revive Midwest Express. For anyone who has flown that once-great line, with 2-across leather seats, cloth napkins and silverware, and fresh-baked chocolate chip cookies on arrival, that is good news.
 
I kind of like flying. It's an "experience" I don't get to do very often. It's kind of fun figuring out where to check in, finding the terminal, etc. I'm sure it would get old really quick if you did it often, but we only do it once every 5 years or so, so it's something out of the ordinary.

I don't like the tiny cramped seats. My knees hit the seat in front of me, and I can barely move. I'm not a huge guy, but my arms and shoulders hang over the arm rests forcing my wife to scrunch up in her already tiny seat.

I used to try to get a window seat so I could see outside, but there's not much to see through those tiny port holes. So now I try to get an aisle seat so I don't have to climb over people to go to the bathroom. It also gives me a bit more elbow room on one side, until somebody walks by.

First class would be nice, but that's way outside of our travel budget. I always think it's funny they have the "rich" section with luxury seating, and the "poor" section for the sardines. Why not have "middle class" seating throughout the plane where everyone is a bit more comfortable, at a slightly higher price. If they averaged out the prices it would probably work out about the same for the airline.

One thing I don't like is most of our flights always seem to leave before 6am. They want you there two hours early, and it takes us almost an hour to drive to the airport, so we have to get up at 2am to catch our flight. We're NOT morning people. :) It sucks to be so tired when you finally reach your destination, especially if there's another hour or so drive once you get there. I've considered doing overnight flights, but try as I might I have never been able to sleep sitting up. So I know I would arrive completely exhausted from lack of sleep.

One thing that bugs me is how much stuff people bring as a carry-on, just so they don't have to check baggage. I paid for my seat but usually fight to find a spot in the overhead bin, usually several rows away. And forget about the whole under the seat thing, I'm already cramped enough.

I flew Southwest airlines several years ago to go to a conference. No reserved seating, so it was a mad dash hoping to find an open aisle seat. I ended up next to two old ladies with cats in carry-on carriers. I didn't even know the airlines allowed pets in the cabin. Thankfully the poor cats were silent the whole trip crammed into their collapsed carriers under the seats.

Flying may be quick, but the stuff associated with flying ends up taking all day. So the first and last day of any long distance vacation is wasted traveling.

We took a train for the first time a few years ago from Vancouver, WA to Seattle. We really enjoyed it. Nice big windows to look out, we could get up and walk around, go to the diner car, etc. It wasn't much faster than driving, but it was nice to relax and not worry about traffic. Unfortunately, the train was broke when we were heading home so we had to wait four hours while they called in buses. Then we had a miserable four hour bus ride, stopping at every train station between here and Seattle. I would love to do the train again, but would never ride a bus again. Of course, there are only so many places we can get to by train.

For the most part, we have stayed closer to home in recent years only going places we could drive to. It's a much nicer experience, even if it takes longer. We can stop when we want to, and we try to see as many sights along the way as we can. Once we retire, I'm hoping to take a cross country road trip again. It will be nice to take our time and not have to rush to get back for work.
 
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Observation.

No data, just a gut feel:

Seems like folks on this site are more amenable to pay for FC/BC than when I first dropped in here several years ago.

Is the fact that economy class has gotten that much more intolerable?
Or are we having more money to spend?
Or is "blow that dough" more of a mindset than before?

Seems to be a mild abandonment of the LBYM 'make do' thinking I first encountered here back in the day.

Eight years ago, I would've been shocked to see anyone here say that they'd "pay for FC or stay home"

Maybe, many people who have recently retired are retiring with a lot more annual income and higher net worth. Maybe, many have figured out that in their case, it will be practically impossible to draw down their capital, so why not spend it now. Also when you have been travelling business/first class for most of your career, it doesn't feel right to sit in coach and subject yourself to a crummy seat that leads to back, knee, ankle pain and lousy food for extended flights. The point of retiring early is to enjoy life while still relatively young not subject yourself to torture on a 11-14 hour flight. Even on those 5-6 hour trans-continental flights, who wants to sit in a crammed seat and beg for water and pay for peanuts. People also neglect the potential dangers of DVT on these extended flights.
 
First class would be nice, but that's way outside of our travel budget. I always think it's funny they have the "rich" section with luxury seating, and the "poor" section for the sardines. Why not have "middle class" seating throughout the plane where everyone is a bit more comfortable, at a slightly higher price. If they averaged out the prices it would probably work out about the same for the airline.

Some airlines have this- AA calls it "Main Cabin ExtrAA". I used it on a business trip to London for an employer too chintzy to ante up for Business. It was an improvement.
 
I have never really minded flying. Always look at it as an adventure. Did upgrade to business on a recent 16h flight (including refueling stop) but usually just economy. I don't often fly domestic in the US which I understand can be particularly trying. Most eye opening flights where domestic in Russia not long after things opened up there. The planes were much better than the trains though!
 
We need a thread or a link on how to get business/first class seats at a discount (notice I did not say cheap). I just did a kayak search and to go to Paris, economy is about $1,500 and business is over $8,000. I can appreciate that there are folks on this site that can afford that, but for those who say you’re only flying first class are you really paying that kind of premium, or are you finding ways to bring that cost difference down? I could see double, but 5 or 6 times the price? I could only do that once or twice in my life and that’s only financially speaking. Mentally, I’d struggle paying that kind of premium unless I had a lot more money than I’ll ever have.

The trans-Atlantic business class seat sales start in October for the following years spring and summer season. It's been this way for the last decade. You should be able to get a business class far of about $2400-2800 from JFK to LHR or CDG or $3500-$4000 from LAX. These are for non-refundable tickets. You have to be a bit more flexible with your travel dates. I sign up for fare alerts on Kayak on the destinations I'm interested in.
 
Observation.

No data, just a gut feel:

Seems like folks on this site are more amenable to pay for FC/BC than when I first dropped in here several years ago.

Is the fact that economy class has gotten that much more intolerable?
Or are we having more money to spend?
Or is "blow that dough" more of a mindset than before?

Seems to be a mild abandonment of the LBYM 'make do' thinking I first encountered here back in the day.

Eight years ago, I would've been shocked to see anyone here say that they'd "pay for FC or stay home"


Yes
Yes
Yes, but still selective on where I adhere to "blow that dough" philosophy. To us, flying first (especially intercontinental) is now part of the enjoyment of the trip, rather than being something to 'get through'. As I mentioned, I hate to fly these days, but this is something that allows us to enjoy the whole experience.
 
I remember being on a flight in the early '80s on a typical legacy carrier -- I forget which -- to Milwaukee. I was sitting in the back when I noticed that rookie Milwaukee Bucks forward/center Alton Lister was boarding.

Alton-freaking-Lister, a 7-foot, 240-pounder, was sitting in coach, and he looked like he was in reasonable comfort. Imagine sitting in a 3-across seat with a guy like that today.

On a happier note, the word is that a group of entrepreneurs is trying to revive Midwest Express. For anyone who has flown that once-great line, with 2-across leather seats, cloth napkins and silverware, and fresh-baked chocolate chip cookies on arrival, that is good news.

Midwest Express was a great airline. Always was top in satisfaction polls. Every seat was a first class seat. Would love to see it come back, especially since I have flown Frontier and their new thin seats that actually cause pain.
 
On our last trip to Poland we flew coach on a new Norwegian plane and we had enough room. It was quite nice. It would take too much of our travel budget to fly first class but if money was no object we would. Really a shame that they keep shrinking the seats. On long flights I get up every 2 hours and stand for awhile. My son found us a good deal for that trip and only paid 750 round trip. The most we paid to go to Europe was 1400.
 
Don't really mind at all. I guess I'm numb to it. I was AA Executive Platinum last 6 years at Megacorp (>100K miles per year). I just go through the routine like I've done thousands of times before. It has been an adjustment going from business to coach. But I still have my Bose noise-canceling headphones, some great music, videos, games, etc. Even though I'm 6-4, I have no problem sleeping in coach. And 5 years into ER, we rarely pay to fly because we are still using FF miles earned at Megacorp. One downside to using miles is we never earn new miles toward elite status. So even though I have a ton of 500-mile upgrades, I can't use them because I'm not even Gold. Anyway, for us, driving more than 4-5 hours is WAY more uncomfortable than flying.
 
I guess im one of the few who doesnt mind flying. Although we always use rewards/points/skymiles...so we've been forced to be flexible, always have at least one connecting flight...sometimes two!

Ive learned over the years to always bring a lot of entertainment. If the flight has tv/games on the back of the seat even better. Sometimes you cant check beforehand online...so its a roll of the dice. Bring stuff to keep you busy. And always bring 2 pairs of headphones. You can bring your expensive beats/bose ones...but bring a cheapo pair in case something goes wrong. I bailed my wife out one time to hawaii when her headphones died early in the flight.

Bring snacks/food. Mostly real food though. You can only eat so many sour patch kids and swedish fish/chips/cookies/crackers/etc. Bring a salad, sandwiches, anything that isnt garbage. We always fly with empty water bottles then fill them when we get past security. Always have some sort of drink on you.

Wear something comfortable. Unless you're traveling for business, do you really need to wear a suit?

Here's a nice hack. Everyone bring an overhead suitcase...then check it at the gate. They always ask if anyone wants to check a bag (for FREE) to your final destination. Do it...especially if you have multiple segments. We figured that out early in our travel years and it saved us so much headache. Also saves on the cost of checking a $25/bag each way.

Bring a bag with you but store it in the overhead space if you can. You want as much leg room as possible. Shoving a bag at your feet isnt going to help.

Thats about all I have. People are in too much of a hurry today. Just relax. If you're traveling for work...well it is what it is. If you're on vacation...take a deep breath. What once took us months to travel 3,000 miles can now be done in 6 hours. What is everyone complaining for? Grow up. #firstworldproblems
 
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Flew enough in the military as well as when I was a working stiff. Will fly only if it is more than 600 miles outside of driving range from the old abode.
 
I always think it's funny they have the "rich" section with luxury seating, and the "poor" section for the sardines. Why not have "middle class" seating throughout the plane where everyone is a bit more comfortable, at a slightly higher price. If they averaged out the prices it would probably work out about the same for the airline.

Customers have made it clear time and again that most of them won’t pay middle prices for those “middle class” quality seats.
 
At 135 and 170 pounds and both of us leggy, we don't find coach seats too tight. One issue is the other flyers, who do! Most planes we've been on have three-seat rows, so no matter what we do (including trying to get aisle seats facing each other), we end up sitting next to, or around, an encroacher.

But the worst experiences we've had, involved not being allowed to get up to use the lavatory. You have to stay hydrated on a long flight - that means plenty of bathroom usage, and for some reason, if the pilot has to circle the airport for a long time before landing, they make you stay in your seat until landing, and then of course it's wait to get off, and then a sprint to the airport restroom. Although "safety reasons" are cited, I don't remember this being the case during my work flying years in the 80's, 90's, and early 00's.
 
I love flying, I hate modern economy seating though. I'll fly economy for ~5 hours or less still though because the moderate discomfort still outweighs the pain of paying for 1st/business class or not going where I'd like to be. Past ~5 hours, I'm gonna pay for comfort on the plane to fly.
 
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