Illegal Immigrants - What To Do?

[Danny]

The political debate has been engaged.

People are in the streets this week-end

I'm torn on this.

I'm a believer in a nation of laws.
We have a law that isn't being enforced and that bothers me.
Whenever I return to this country the immigration guys always look at me like I'm a criminal and I have to prove to them I'm a good guy before they let me back in!

I think business has too much clout - being allowed by the government to really ignore serious enforcement of immigration laws so they can have cheap-afraid labor that pushes wages down so no one legally here wants to do the job.

Then there are the human stories of desperate people coming here to better themselves and their families.

What to do?

[Brat]

Originally Posted by DanTien

The political debate has been engaged.
...
Then there are the human stories of desperate people coming here to better themselves and their families.

What to do?

That is the quandry.* What many do not understand is that if we do not provide economic opportunities for destitute Mexicans there will be civil unrest on our southern border.* There is no perfect solution and the problem will not get better in our lifetimes, there is too much of a difference in our standards of living.

Similar problems exist in southern Europe, even on the N. Korea/China border.

[haha]

Originally Posted by DanTien

The political debate has been engaged.

What to do?

On this board there is only one acceptable thing to do. Proclaim piously that we are a nation of immigrants, that the new immigrants are brave people taking grave risks to get here, and we should welcome them because hey we don't want to pay more for our lettuce. And besides, who has proven that they might become a problem? (Conveniently ignoring roundups of increasingly violent and murderous Latino gangs all around our fair land.).

The other, less popular view is that a nation which can’t control its borders is no nation at all.

IMO, in Amerika government and corporations cooperate to their mutual well being. Neither gives one whit about the citizens of this country.

Ha

Meanwhile companies like Walmart are sidestepping the entire issue and getting their vendors to build Manufacturing Plants in China and India.

The immigrants would rather stay in their own countries with their families and have the jobs come to them. The Walmarts would rather deal with other countries Labor laws and Polution laws than the Unites States.

Shell game. You're watching the Immigrants and the jobs are moving faster!

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Before we debate the solution, what problem were we trying to solve that will be reasonably resolved by any feasibly implemented "solution"?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny

Before we debate the solution, what problem were we trying to solve that will be reasonably resolved by any feasibly implemented "solution"?

Were you ever in congress?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Nope, I just wanna hear what the problem is.

I've heard healthcare, disease, job stealing, welfare drags, gangs, drugs, all sorts of things that either dont bear out under examination, would happen with or without illegal immigrants, or there are no reasonably implemented solutions.

Interested in if there are any new drums to beat or the same old, tired ones.

[poboy]

Last night national news story regarding some Cubans who will be deported because they did not step on dry land.* I get totally confused.* On one hand I can watch a zillion Mexicans run across the border without any noticeable efforts to stop them and the Coast Guard catching some Cuban on an inner tube using the fleet . Makes total sense to me.

[dex]

First let me state that there are laws on the books that if followed and enforeced would address the illegal immigrant issue. Specifically, anyone hired must have proof of USA citizenship or other approved legal status to be employed.

Second - I am for the following:
1. The working person in the USA
2. A living wage (this is not the same as the mimimum wage)
3. Employee benefits (health care, 401K etc.)
4. Fair legal immigration
5. I'm willing to pay more for the above

Allowing illegal immigration works against all of the above.

[AltaRed]

Originally Posted by dex

First let me state that there are laws on the books that if followed and enforeced would address the illegal immigrant issue.* Specifically, anyone hired must have proof of USA citizenship or other approved legal status to be employed.

Second - I am for the following:
1. The working person in the USA
2. A living wage (this is not the same as the mimimum wage)
3. Employee benefits (health care, 401K etc.)
4. Fair legal immigration
5. I'm willing to pay more for the above

Allowing illegal immigration works against all of the above.

The hospitality industry. the food industry, amongst many others would stop dead in its tracks. New Orleans wouldn't get re-built cause few other than Hispanics are willing to work there. It's addicted to cheap labor and that cannot be reversed. Major changes would cause America's economy to fall off its wheels like France and Germany.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep. Thats why I'm still waiting to hear what the problem is and how any reasonable legislation will stop it. Whatever "it" is.

The pending legislation increases penalties for things that will continue to happen regardless of what the penalties are, and legitimizes things that are already happening that will happen at the same level with or without legitimization.

[brewer12345]

Surprisingly, I agree wholeheartedly with CFB on this one (provided he chooses not to start picking nits, since I think he's hit his bag limit for the day already). Yeah, an influx of poor, unskilled immigrants is tough on our border states, but we are not going to stop the influx and the nation as a whole would suffer pretty severe economic outcomes if we did. This is racism, pure and simple, and the fact that these bills are being put forth now when certain politicians' poll results are really low suggests that this is pandering to a certain party's base.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I promise not to pick any more nits involving posts you make where you misquote me or disagree with something I never said. From now on I'll just change my posts to actually say what you mistakenly thought I said, so that your subsequent posts disagreeing with what I didnt actually say make sense.

Other than that, you may be right again in this case!

Nobody complains about all those big headed illegal canadians bringing their bad beer down here and putting budweiser employees out of business. And I'd like to see someone crack down on that illegal lutefisk importing into minnesota thats putting our good american lutefisk makers out of business. Whoops, we already blew the budget chasing down people who were making illegal cheese in mexico, smuggling it into the US, and selling it to illegal immigrants.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny

I promise not to pick any more nits involving posts you make where you misquote me or disagree with something I never said. From now on I'll just change my posts to actually say what you mistakenly thought I said, so that your subsequent posts disagreeing with what I didnt actually say make sense.

Other than that, you may be right again in this case!

Nobody complains about all those big headed illegal canadians bringing their bad beer down here and putting budweiser employees out of business. And I'd like to see someone crack down on that illegal lutefisk importing into minnesota thats putting our good american lutefisk makers out of business. Whoops, we already blew the budget chasing down people who were making illegal cheese in mexico, smuggling it into the US, and selling it to illegal immigrants.

God, those hot dogs and gatorade are a volatile mix!

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Eh, just a side note. I read a whole bunch of interesting stuff a while back showing the relative lack of interest in immigration "problems" that result from white "illegal immigrants" vs those of color.

You need some gatorade after all that salt and vinegar...

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny

Eh, just a side note. I read a whole bunch of interesting stuff a while back showing the relative lack of interest in immigration "problems" that result from white "illegal immigrants" vs those of color.

You need some gatorade after all that salt and vinegar...

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'm sorry. The two statements have nothing to do with each other.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny

I'm sorry. The two statements have nothing to do with each other.

its the salt and vinegar comment that hurts me so much

[Danny]

What gets my attention, is the report of 500,000 people in the streets of LA.
In some parts of the country, it is becoming politically problematic to oppose illegal immigration.