Incredable...

[Nords]

The lieutenant can't believe what he just heard, so the gate agent repeats it. Despite his job counseling soldiers for combat stress, the lieutenant indulges in some soldier talk during the heated exchange that follows.

One of the hardest skills I acquired in the military was the realization that I could say "Hmmm. Let me speak to your supervisor, please."

Nope, I just had to tackle those situations head-on and fix 'em myself.

 

[azanon]

Appeals to emotions. Switching topics. Straw man arguments. Citing fake news reports.

Yep, pointless discussion.

Someone took philosophy 101.   Congradulations.

Emotions matter, otherwise we'd be (acting like) computers.   I was on topic, just pointing out a bad example.  There was no straw man argument.  And no fake news reports were cited.

Next?

 

[azanon]

Long live Isreal...there I did find something!

MW, i'm not saying this is you, but this is the exact mentality i have to live with here in Arkansas. There is a large group of people here that believe Israel can do no wrong because they are "God's chosen people". In other words, they have a green light to kill or invade whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish, and it is automatically justified in the eyes of God. Now those are some morons.

 

[Mwsinron]

Nah they have the green light because their soliders were abducted. At least I can see both sides are at fault and not blindly support Muslims. If you want to play the look at the children card, well then Im sure if you looked hard enough you could find Israel citizens who were innocents dead.

 

[haha]

We should also remember that the essence of guerrilla warfare from the POV of the guerilla is to hide in civilian enclaves. That way, the western combatants will either be constrained from going all out against you, or if they go ahead they will come under political censure from the rest of the world. Remember Viet Nam?

Don't forget that these are the same heroes who send their minor children into pizza parlors in Israel with bombs strapped to their chests.

Ha

 

[astromeria]

Those looked like weeping women holding 1 year olds in lebanon on my TV.

Fortunately Hezbollah only targets buses, pizzerias, discos... :

Why is it that when I read anti-Israeli rants, it pisses me off, and when I read anti-Palestinian rants, it pisses me off. You all piss me off. So piss off!

 

[alphabet soup]

.

I also am sure that the soldiers themselves are getting a raw deal.

Ha

Believe me, the soldiers always get a raw deal.

 

[MJ]

How would we feel if the sovereign nation of Mexico allowed an independent militia of many thousands (supplied by Iran, North Korea etc), shoot missiles at nearby US cities and abduct our border soldiers for many years. The Hezbollah are not part of the Lebanese military. In the Middle East, weakness is rewarded with further agression.

 

[Eagle43]

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner (vagabond). The clearest analysis so far..

 

[spark0506]

Back to the problem between the Lieutenant and the ticket agent….from my travel experiences I see nothing but respect for our military personnel. On a flight that took me into O’Hare, upon landing the flight attendant came over the speaker and asked that we all remain seated and let the 8-10 military folks exit first as they have been traveling for almost 24 hours and a few still had some connecting flights. Not only did everyone comply but the whole plane erupted in load cheers as they exited the plane. On another flight as I was checking in at the gate there was a soldier ahead of me and a first class passenger stepped up to the counter and offered to trade seats with him. The flight attendant could not have been more accommodating and the soldier more appreciative. I believe our military personnel, especially the ones that are putting themselves in harms way are heroes, plain and simple. I don’t think political and personal views about the war matter when it comes to supporting our military. I support our troops and feel lucky to have such a strong and professional military behind us.

 

[brewer12345]

I believe our military personnel, especially the ones that are putting themselves in harms way are heroes, plain and simple. I don’t think political and personal views about the war matter when it comes to supporting our military. I support our troops and feel lucky to have such a strong and professional military behind us.

I have really mixed feelings about our military personnel. On the one hand, I know they are just professionals doing an often boring/dirty/dangerous/unpleasant job and that they mostly have to go where they are sent. They are doing what they feel to be service for the greater good, and I can understand and respect that. OTOH, I strongly feel that all militaries are little more than a pox on the world and the end result of them is increased poverty, death, destruction and hatred. I despise military institutions, and I find it very hard to understand why someone would dedicate years of their life perpetuating these profoundly destructive insttutions. So while I respect military personnel for the dedication they show toward doing what they clearly feel to be right and good, I thik that they are misguided at best and supporting the worst aspects of our society.

Yes, I know, I am evil and unMerkin and I love Saddam and Kim Jong-Il and I should be banished to some other country for even thinking these thoughts. Since I just said it, don't bother with a reprsie of those sentiments.

 

[Cool Dood]

 

[brewer12345]

Slavery: Hmmm, maybe I am just simple minded (degree in Merkin history aside), but freeing the slaves was an afterthought on the part of the Union rather than a real reason for war.

Fascism: Hmmm, seems to me we were and remain happy to cozy up to fascist dictators when it suits our purposes. We only attack those that don't go along with our schemes (and don't have nukes).

Nazism: Hitler had an awful lot of admirers in the US before the war. I don't think we joined the war to get rid of nazism; I think we did so because FDR pulled a fast one and all those overseas markets were going to be threatened.

Communism: How much did you say our trade deficit with communist China was last year? And we never went to war with the Soviets (except by proxy). That regime collapsed under its own bureaucratic weight.

 

[Nords]

I have really mixed feelings about our military personnel.  On the one hand, I know they are just professionals doing an often boring/dirty/dangerous/unpleasant job and that they mostly have to go where they are sent.  They are doing what they feel to be service for the greater good, and I can understand and respect that.  
OTOH, I strongly feel that all militaries are little more than a pox on the world and the end result of them is increased poverty, death, destruction and hatred.  I despise military institutions, and I find it very hard to understand why someone would dedicate years of their life perpetuating these profoundly destructive insttutions.  So while I respect military personnel for the dedication they show toward doing what they clearly feel to be right and good, I thik that they are misguided at best and supporting the worst aspects of our society.

Hey, don't shoot the messengers, no matter how blissfully ignorant they may be!  You won't achieve world peace, or even border security, by getting rid of the military.  We have to get rid of the problem that's creating the "need" for the military.

People feel the same way about police officers, lawyers, prison guards, and septic-tank pumpers.  No one wants to support (or pay for) such despised systems until we need them-- and then we can't figure out why they're not ready to do their jobs.  It's not as easy as we claim to make it look.  

I'd like to think that all my years of nuclear brinkmanship-- chest-thumping & bellowing "You can't find me!  Don't make me shoot these missiles!  I can do it, I really really will!!"-- made at least two other countries hesitate.  I spent 24 years training & practicing to never fire a warshot, which makes me a worse investment than was even believed by some of my commanding officers.  According to my calculations the taxpayers gave me nearly $1.2M in salary & tax-free allowances to do my job (plus free healthcare!) and I'll probably get several times that over the next few decades of sitting in my "Break glass in case of war" recliner.  

I didn't get much pleasure out of being one of the guys doing something about all those other people spreading poverty, death, destruction, & hatred, but I'd like to think that I slowed them down a little while everyone else was searching for a better system.  (Or at least staying out of our way.)  I don't like hauling trash to landfills, either, but better methods are in short supply and I do my share to cut down on the amount of trash I produce.  When I wasn't hauling trash, I got to help people and to practice a different sort of martial arts.  I don't see much progress on the other fronts-- we're still looking for a better system than the threat of brute force.

There may not be enough volunteers, but until human physiology/genealogy is changed beyond recognition there will always be someone who's eager to join the military.  Everyone, both men and women, is poisoned by testosterone to some degree and needs to find a less-dangerous outlet for it.  In my case it turned out to be better to join the military than to seek more combative or entrepreneurial means of earning a living, even if the military system is more institutionalized than legal.  It seemed to be a better option than being a boxer or a criminal, but it coulda been worse-- I could've gone to law school or gotten my CFA and done some real damage to American society.  So I think you got fair value for your tax dollars.

Instead of castigating the military, let's stop hurling invective at each other and try to find a better system.  When that happens then no one will want to be in the military and I think the soldiers & sailors will dispose of the institution faster than anyone else ever could.

There's one other (selfish) reason for being in the military.  I doubt that the situation of this quote is correct and I don't even know if the quote itself has a credible source, but the sentiment hits me right between the demographic eyeballs:
"Freedom has a taste to those who fight, and almost die, that the protected will never know."
-- Author Unknown, found inscribed on a wall of a former POW prison

 

[Nords]

That regime collapsed under its own bureaucratic weight.

It's worth pointing out that many economists & historians think the regime collapsed under the weight of trying to keep up with American military spending.

They just couldn't believe how Reagan could keep raising the deficit.  To plagiarize another poster's comments, it must've seemed like voodoo economics!

They may have hanged themselves, but we sold them as much rope as they could buy. Apparently China's not much smarter, but resistance is futile.

 

[brewer12345]

It's worth pointing out that many economists & historians think the regime collapsed under the weight of trying to keep up with American military spending. 

That may well have been the proximate cause of death, but the economy they had was dysfunctional enough that it was only a matter of time.

It is amazing to think of how much and how long the Soviet people suffered. I wonder if they ever dreamed that things would actually be worse after they threw off the CP?

 

[Nords]

I wonder if they ever dreamed that things would actually be worse after they threw off the CP?

We'll have to ask the people who are "voting" for Putin...

 

[brewer12345]

Hey, don't shoot the messengers, no matter how blissfully ignorant they may be!  You won't achieve world peace, or even border security, by getting rid of the military.  We have to get rid of the problem that's creating the "need" for the military.

People feel the same way about police officers, lawyers, prison guards, and septic-tank pumpers.  No one wants to support (or pay for) such despised systems until we need them-- and then we can't figure out why they're not ready to do their jobs.  It's not as easy as we claim to make it look.  

Like I said, I try really hard to separate my visceral hatred for the military from the actual men and women in it who are just doing their jobs. Having said that, I am not willing to give a moral free pass to those who VOLUNTARILY choose to become part of that benighted institution. The cycle of violence won't end if everyone just says, "well, I'm just doing my job, don't blame me." We already know where that leads to.

 

[Nords]

The cycle of violence won't end if everyone just says, "well, I'm just doing my job, don't blame me."  We already know where that leads to.

The implicit problem with that approach is embodied in this statement:

"OK, you go first."

 

[brewer12345]

The implicit problem with that approach is embodied in this statement:

"OK, you go first."

Exactly my point. That's what everyone says, and here we sit in our own filth.

It would be nice if the US at least stopped ratcheting up the war machine, spooking everyone else and getting them in the race, too.

 

[PsyopRanger]

Wow, as for the original topic. This is something we deal with since the Anti-Bush era. After 9/11 everyone loved you, 5 years later it is hit and miss.

As to why someone would serve in the military. ER at 40 for one. Believe me though, the day we have world peace and no longer need militaries, I will be the first to hung up the uniform.

Not to mention the militaries purpose in the present is not killing foreigners as the biased media likes to portray, we actually build schools, roads, wells for drinking water and help end poverty and other world problems. But, those stories don't increase ratings.

 

[Nords]

Exactly my point.  That's what everyone says, and here we sit in our own filth.
It would be nice if the US at least stopped ratcheting up the war machine, spooking everyone else and getting them in the race, too. 

"Hey, he started it!!"

 

[jclarksnakes]

Brewer,
......Slavery? I believe if you will have a look at some of Abe Lincoln's speeches you will see that the emancipation proclamation was no surprise.
......Fascism? No argument with you on that one.
......Nazism? I think your analysis is too simplistic and basically incorrect. More importantly you seem to be insinuating that we were wrong for becoming involved in WWII and helping save Europe from Hitler. If that is what you mean then you and I have nothing to talk about.
......Communism? Like Nords says the Russians imploded trying to keep up with Reagans continued military buildup. I see China's rapidly growing free market system as a very good thing.

.....I think Winston Churchill was the most important and heroic figure of the 20th century followed closely by Ronald Reagan. You probably totally disagree with my opinions and you are wrong.
jc

 

[brewer12345]

Not to mention the militaries purpose in the present is not killing foreigners as the biased media likes to portray, we actually build schools, roads, wells for drinking water and help end poverty and other world problems.  But, those stories don't increase ratings.

Yeah and the tanks and aircraft carriers and B52s and ICBMs are just for show, right?

 

[brewer12345]

then you and I have nothing to talk about.

Ding, ding, ding!!!

Its OK to agree to disagree.