Indicators of Wealth?

[NW-Bound]

Really? Can I afford a bottle as old as myself? Is it going to cost the same as my fancy deck?

About adding caramel, yes, quite a few distillers do that to enhance the color. It feels fraudulent to me, but is apparently condone. How does one tell?

 

[Souschef]

On the other hand, I just spent $10K to get top-grade Trex boards for my large deck, which I am rebuilding myself. No flinching there, no going down to the lower grade as my wife suggested. Nope, I told her my labor is getting more expensive each year, and this is the last time I tackle something like this. Gotta make it worthwhile.

I think I can splurge on durable goods a lot easier than consumable items. Considering that this deck is warranted against fading for 25 years, it's pretty cheap when amortized.

A business-class seat is harder to quantify. The flight is measured in hours, but my happy memory of laying down near-flat for the long flights to Sydney or Tel Aviv still lingers in my mind. And at the same time, the torturous seat in one particular domestic flight of many years ago still left an indelible mark on my soul.

I agree. We just did the same with our deck. replaced the lousy 2x6 pine boards with Trex and now not have to worry.
My body still remembers some International flights in Coach before we started flying Business Class.

 

[Daniel J]

Really? Can I afford a bottle as old as myself? Is it going to cost the same as my fancy deck?


About adding caramel, yes, quite a few distillers do that to enhance the color. It feels fraudulent to me, but is apparently condone. How does one tell?

It's been some years since I've been in the shop, early 1960s bottles were in the low to mid $200 range then. With inflation and the strong dollar guessing probably almost $400 now. Maybe I'll go check the store out this weekend and see what they still have.

Not sure on the caramel but the older ones I've had tended to be very dark in color (like dark honey) and not as sweet (?) as Remy and the others.


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[NW-Bound]

The Cognac bottles I have had never show the year they are bottled, or perhaps I did not pay sufficient attention. Spirits do not age in the bottle, so if the year appears on the label, it would be of nostalgic value only.

Cognac aging 50 or 60 years in casks would be out of reach for me, I am afraid.

PS. Regarding the added caramel, on the Web people say that it is possible to detect it by taste. Some say it leaves a residue on your fingertips. Perhaps I will pay more attention the next time I pour myself a drink.

PPS. Total Wine has a very good selection of eaux de vie, and of course all sorts of booze. Home listings in Zillow should show the mileage to the nearest Total Wine, in addition to square footage, as it is one of the desirable attributes.

 

[HFWR]

How do you tell if a Kentuckian is rich? They have TWO junk cars in their yard...

"If you just helped your rich uncle take the wheels off his new house, you might be a redneck." - Jeff Foxworthy

 

[NW-Bound]

OK, just found a 60-year-old Cognac on the Web. Price: $1699.

 

[NW-Bound]

I messed up. Should have had my special Cognac 10 years ago, for my 50th BD.

The same brand of Cognac, but only 50 years old, is a mere $290. Ten years later, it costs a whole lot more.

 

[Winemaker]

There been some fun studies on that same subject - people not being able to tell the difference between red wine and died white wine or pate and dog food:

Wine tasting is bullshit. Here's why.

Bull$hit is a strong word.

We are all different in our sense of taste, smell, hearing, seeing and feeling. They are all affected by our thoughts, perceptions, environment, sensitivity, education, marketing, stereotypes and wishful thinking.

A grand master sommelier, there are less than 100 in the world, IIRC, that can correctly identify over 500 scents/ flavors that may/maynot be in wine. There are thousands of wine experts, some who are, some who aren't, some who get paid to be, some are wannabes, some are in their own heads, most are never gonnabes.

Wine is a very simply yet complex liquid. Every drop was once a raindrop, falling through the atmosphere, landing on the dirt/ rock/ whatever and carried up through the plants roots, vines, etc, where it reacts with temperature, sun, light duration, pollution, weather, frost, molds, yeasts and becomes the juice of a grape,in a cluster, of a vine, in a spot of a vineyard, in a vineyard, of a AVA, of a state, region,country, etc. They are affected by how, when, ripeness, weather, they are picked, stored, crushed, soaked, type of yeast, cleanliness, ferment temp, sugar, acid, and time. It is influenced by concrete, glass, stainless, toasted oak, temp of the toast, country of origin of the oak, size of the container and time spent in that container.

This liquid gets treated by even more factors, ie natural and added sulphites, enzymes, cleanliness of bottles, type of cork, natural or synthetic, or screw cap. Exposure to oxygen, heat, cold, vibration, the list goes on and on.

So, that bottled fluid, can actually be experienced differently, because the fluid could actually be different but very similar, by people who are different but very similar, because of different but similar expectations, under different but similar conditions.

And if you are still reading this post, whether it makes a difference to you or not, but definitely not BS. It is similar to running firecalc or some other retirement calculator but different. YMMV.

 

[Daniel J]

I messed up. Should have had my special Cognac 10 years ago, for my 50th BD.

The same brand of Cognac, but only 50 years old, is a mere $290. Ten years later, it costs a whole lot more.

Here is a sample listing from the shop I mentioned:

http://dandm.com/veuve-j-goudoulin-1963-vieux-bas-armagnac.html


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[Daniel J]

1929, wow. Look at that color!

http://dandm.com/veuve-j-goudoulin-1929-vieux-bas-armagnac.html


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[NW-Bound]

These Armagnac bottles surely are interesting!

I am not a drinker of Armagnac, so not accustomed to seeing the vintage printed on the bottle, the same as wine. Cognac is usually blended. Hence it is of not specific vintage, although the producer may say that a blend contains no component younger than a certain age.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I need to expand my horizon to explore Armagnacs, something I thought about but have not done. It may be something of more interest to me than getting to learn more about whisky. I have been gifted some nice bottles of single-malt, but the truth is I am more of a brandy and eau de vie drinker and whiskies do not excite me.

 

[NW-Bound]

It so happens that Wikipedia has this photo of a bottle of Armagnac of my birth year in its article on this spirit. How about that?

 

[aim-high]

Well gosh, I'm not rich. I wouldn't think twice at staying at a motel 6 or Super 8, and having dinner at Denny's or Sizzler that night, the next time we go through a hurricane evacuation.

I think being rich is:

(1) Not feeling the need to constantly compare one's lifestyle and spending choices with the lifestyles and spending choices of friends and acquaintances

(2) Awakening to find one is sincerely, thoroughly happy each morning and staying that way pretty much all day long

(3) Not having to worry about the future, where the next meal is coming from or where to sleep each night

(4) Thinking of things and experiences that would brighten one's life in the future, and being able to afford those things and experiences.

(5) Feeling that one has ENOUGH. Eradicating that crazy-making hoarding/consumerist drive for once and for all.

+1

 

[Travelwanted]

I really liked this post.

I might rephrase my original question to you. What things would a wealthy person think of as good value for money that others would not?

A recurring theme here from this seemingly frugal crowd seems to be value for money. Does anyone ever look at it from the other side, "Hey, my NW is 8 figures. If I buy a $1K coach ticket or $5K business class ticket my NW will be the same. I'm going in comfort!" I guess I mean looking at it from "damage to NW" vs. "value for money."

Clobber - that response would be different for most responders. Fortunately it is not a one-size-fits-all world. Value to me means I don't feel bad about the purchase. It makes sense and fits in my plan.

I tend to spend on things I enjoy, but to a point. Yes, I do splurge sometimes. But I still follow the rules that got me to this point. I'm not gonna suddenly change my belief system because I can afford to.

To further explain my "value" let's look at the business class airfare as an example. If I did this routinely it would become "normal" for us - not a special treat. When done once in a while it is a fun splurge that we get excited about. This is regardless of whether or not I can supposedly afford it. I think there is something about the law of diminishing returns in my philosophy that really rings true for me.

 

[athena53]

All those lovely bottles of liquor reminded me of an extravagance DH and I had for years.

There's a shop called Cadenhead in Edinburgh, right on the Royal Mile, which sells whisky from major distillers straight out of the cask. No mixing, even with the same malting, no filtering, no coloring, etc. We went back to Edinburgh twice over the years and got more; they also had a shop in London which I was able to visit on a few of my business trips. I ALWAYS went over the Customs allowance but noted exactly what I had on the form because I'd rather pay duty than have it confiscated. They never charged me anything. I used to joke that when DH picked me up from one of these trips, he was more interested in the cargo arriving safely than the passenger! The whisky we were buying was $75-$90 a bottle but that was the cheap stuff!

Things change; DH has some stomach issues and these whiskies are too harsh for him now, even with a little water, and adding too much water really destroys the unique qualities of the whisky. Rick Steve has also "discovered" Cadenhead's so I suspect it's pretty crowded in there now.

When we de-cluttered before moving we had about 20 empty Cadenhead's canisters. I listed as Free Stuff (but kept one for us) on Craigslist and they disappeared. Somebody has a pretty impressive-looking bar!

 

[marko]

Another indicator is NOT having to show or tell anyone you are wealthy.

+1

Money-bragging seems to be one of the differences between old and new money.

Had a great uncle (wealthiest guy in town; 1950's era) who wouldn't smoke cigars because he didn't want anyone to think he had money.

Of course, everyone knew, but that was his thing.

 

[clobber]

My problem with the original question posed by this thread is the use of the word 'indicate'. I never, ever do anything with the intention of indicating to anyone my personal financial status. In fact, I find any kind of ostentatious display of wealth a sign of poor character.

I'm fine with that. But, I didn't ask what things you do to intentionally indicate to other people that you are wealthy.

 

[NW-Bound]

All those lovely bottles of liquor reminded me of an extravagance DH and I had for years...

I buy and am also gifted booze. I do not drink that often, so accumulate quite a few bottles. Many have not been opened. They spill out of the liquor cabinet, and are in several clusters in the house now. I should go out to count them.

PS. The reason I have so many bottles is that when I feel needing a drink, being a creature of habit, I would reach for my Cognac to drink neat, or the Bombay Sapphire to make a gin and tonic. It is only when having company that I might bring out another brandy, or a sake, or liquor for an after-dinner drink. Usually that's when I have my brothers for dinner. Most other dinner guests can't match my drinking (when I am in the mood). After the wine, and some don't even drink anything like my wife, they get all boozed out.

 

[hesperus]

It seems that many members are feeling quite flush, and in the mood to burn some Benjamins. This too will pass!

It's no coincidence that these threads pop up now with markets at all time highs. Kind of like how folks were feeling during the run up of real estate prices before 2008. Everybody felt wealthy. As we approach eight figures with the help of overheated markets like these, it makes us also feel pretty flush. Not to rain on the parade, but I am apprehensive. I can almost take these type of threads as a warning flag

 

[NW-Bound]

Not me. I feel broke, having spent more than I thought I should.

 

[NW-Bound]

By the way, if one does not rebalance from stocks to caviar in a bull market like our friend Robbie did, then when does one rebalance?

My own problem is that I have been doing rebalancing from stocks into home repair/upgrade in the last 3 years (got 2 doggone homes too!), even before this bull market and while my energy stocks were getting pummeled. It could have been a lot worse, like a few other posters here who got more energy stocks than I did.

Feeling rich? No, not this guy. I may not take the fall European trip like I entertained the thought of just a month ago.

PS. And while joking about the expensive Cognac and Armagnac to celebrate my 60th birthday, I may just learn to like my son's favorite bottle of American brandy. Last night, when I told my wife about the low price, she said "Why didn't you get a 2nd bottle for yourself?" Tonight, at the dinner at his home, I will sample this brandy once more and make the decision.

PPS. My son was proud of his discovery. He's more of a whisky drinker, but picked up the Cognac trait from me of course. He said that while in the liquor store, debating whether to get the usual bottle of Cognac that I had been feeding him, he saw this inexpensive American brandy and decided to give it a shot. I am happy that he still has some frugal gene of mine. After seeing him spring for the Audi S4, I had been a bit worried.

 

[2017ish]

Bull$hit is a strong word.

We are all different in our sense of taste, smell, hearing, seeing and feeling. They are all affected by our thoughts, perceptions, environment, sensitivity, education, marketing, stereotypes and wishful thinking.

...

Wine is a very simply yet complex liquid....

...

And if you are still reading this post, whether it makes a difference to you or not, but definitely not BS. It is similar to running firecalc or some other retirement calculator but different. YMMV.

+1. Me, even when drinking wine, I basically have the palate of the PBR chugger that I was when a teen. DW, otoh, does not (I wish she did!). I've participated in double blind taste tests with her, and also have slipped wines she had previously panned into her glass on occasion. Let's just say she hasn't been fooled.

She is not at the level of the sommes that we've had the pleasure of discussing wines with (No Grand Masters, mind you), but easily enough to justify the wine cellar.

Hmmm. Back to the thread topic, I guess I'd have to admit that owning a full cellar with more than 1000 bottles might be an indicator of wealth. Although I built it myself and the bottles have been selected with value being a big consideration... If I were truly wealthy, cost would not be a factor!

 

[W2R]

Not me. I feel broke, having spent more than I thought I should.

I can relate to that! My Dream Home was sure more than I planned to spend in 2015. This year I feel the urge to watch my pennies carefully because I don't want to get caught up in a more elegant/expensive lifestyle.

So far so good, and I do plan to start spending more in 2017 if not sooner.

In 2018, I turn 70 and then 70+1/2, so I will be getting my full SS and RMD's as well. Plus I am feeling older, so by 2018 I plan to be spending more. Laissez les bons temps rouler.

By the way, if one does not rebalance from stocks to caviar in a bull market like our friend Robbie did, then when does one rebalance?

I just do a boring rebalance during the first week of every January, whether the market has dropped or not, or at any time if my % of stock funds has changed from 45% to either less than 42.5% or greater than 47.5%. I don't know anything about the cognac and brandy and so on because I just don't drink at all any more. I must admit that the lobster, oysters, and caviar described by Robbie just sound utterly divine.

 

[RobbieB]

Try some Paddlefish to sample the "luxury" at a low cost. It's about $20/oz and the flavor is very good. So good that I'll always buy a tin even if I'm also buying the $70/oz stuff.

 

[RobbieB]

Now you got me fired up, next time I'm out I'm getting another bottle of Courvoisier XO -