Indicators of Wealth?

[clobber]

I find it fun to try to live better but on less money than we used to spend. I play beat my own budget as a game...

Just goes to show you there are all kinds of differing personalities that find a common community in this forum. I think it makes the discussion stronger.

One of my unstated goals (err..desires?) is to absolutely NOT do what you describe as fun. Don't get me wrong, I just thoroughly enjoyed spending $300 on about $2000 worth of equipment at Sports Authority as they were going out of business. An easy 70%-90% off is super fun. I also enjoyed the 30 seconds I spent finding a 20% off coupon for an activity I just booked. No reason to waste money.

But - to hunt, dig, scrounge, and haggle for every extra dollar on everything. No way.

 

[clobber]

1-I have splurged on business airfare a few times. But it must be a relatively good "deal".

2-I find pleasure in discovering cheap yet good food. I enjoy a nice fancy dinner from time to time...but I reserve those for special times...like birthdays or anniversaries.

3-I have become a bit choosier about hotels. I always check tripadvisor first. Doesn't have to be the fanciest place...just nice relative to cost.

4-I just spent $6000 on a surgery for my dog. I love him like a son so I was grateful I have the means to do it.

I really struggle with spending. My NW is in the 8 figures yet I still feel guilty about spending it. Ultimately, I must feel there is value in where my money is going or I am not likely to let it go. . . whether a $10 meal or $2000 airline tickets. It all boils down to value to me.

I really liked this post.

I might rephrase my original question to you. What things would a wealthy person think of as good value for money that others would not?

A recurring theme here from this seemingly frugal crowd seems to be value for money. Does anyone ever look at it from the other side, "Hey, my NW is 8 figures. If I buy a $1K coach ticket or $5K business class ticket my NW will be the same. I'm going in comfort!" I guess I mean looking at it from "damage to NW" vs. "value for money."

 

[clobber]

The first time I felt wealthy was when DW and I helped a friend who, through no fault of her own, was in a desperate situation and we covered her bills for several months without any impact to our lifestyle. When she got back on her feet she wanted to pay us back, but we didn't need the money - we just told her to use it to help someone else. Getting the money back would not have made an impact on our lifestyle either.

That is a great "indicator." Thanks for the post.

 

[clobber]

Hehe, I actually went through this scenario when I was on my last few weeks at work. One of the guys asked what kind of car I was going to buy (we all had Co. cars) and that got me surfing. I found that I could afford a Maserati and actually planned a visit to a dealer to look. But then I started thinking. If I parked a Maserati in the driveway of my modest tract house the neighbors would not look at me the same and I would need a bigger house in a more "upscale" neighborhood. And that would be expensive.

See, my "frugal genes" protected me from irrational exuberance -

Ha - good one!

 

[clobber]

I used to think getting a massage was a little too unmanly for me. A little too touchy feely for my style. But now that I've had one I realize just how fantastic they are and I'm over any such concerns. High quality ones geared for sports recovery are amazing.


So, my amazing wealth indicator would be to have my own personal masseuse to use multiple times a week as desired.


Muir

Everyone in Thailand is wealthy then! About $8/hr for a high quality massage at 1,2, or 3 hours long. Im not kidding. And no ...people....get your minds out of the gutter. I'm talking normal massage.

 

[clobber]

I keep a spreadsheet of the value of my bargains / contests / discounts / freebies each month. I am at almost $2K this month so far with not many hours of "work" a week, and most of that is not taxable. On a proverbial $1M type of nest egg that would be a ~3% before tax WR equivalent I do not have to take out. Plus we have to watch our taxable income to keep our ACA subsidies, so the nontaxable discounts help with that.

With money saved there is no SS taken out, no income taxes to be paid, no commute, no set hours, no customers, no boss, no boring meetings, no deadlines, no work clothes, no train fares, no parking fees, no tech classes to take to keep my skills up to date, etc. so I think after everything added up my bargain hunting is not too bad of a per hour return on my time compared to some other hobby job type income I have with taxable 1099 type income.

Can you give me some examples from your spreadsheet for this month?

 

[clobber]

Yup, I like to keep "a low profile", under the radar. Make 'em all think I'm broke.

Stealth wealth -

I look broke in my shorts and no shirt with my belly hanging out, my weedy lawn of mostly dirt and that 2003 Taurus in the driveway. You can't see the 4 motorcycles in the garage either.

Muhaha!

My impression of "stealth wealth" or "millionaire next door" has always been just someone who lives like they always have - because that is who they are and they either dont want to or find it too hard to change.

But now you are saying that a large factor is might be about fooling the neighbors, peers, and coworkers? Can you elaborate on that? You might "deprive" yourself of the Maserati that you want because fooling them is even better?

Is it just for the thrill of the bluff where you really have 4 aces but make them think you have king high?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Can you give me some examples from your spreadsheet for this month?

I am not sure why you would want more information when in the previous post you said your goal "is to absolutely NOT do what you describe as fun".

 

[clobber]

I am not sure why you would want more information when in the previous post you said your goal "is to absolutely NOT do what you describe as fun".

Well, I still like to learn from others and am open to changing my approach. The numbers being thrown around peaked my interest.

On the other hand, if the spreadsheet shows that you bought $500 of clothes at Kohl's and they told you there were $1000 in savings (because everything is always on sale there)....well then I need look no further. What harm?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Well, I still like to learn from others and am open to changing my approach. The numbers being thrown around peaked my interest.

On the other hand, if the spreadsheet shows that you bought $500 of clothes at Kohl's and they told you there were $1000 in savings (because everything is always on sale there)....well then I need look no further. What harm?

There is a thread with on that topic here with contributions from many forum members (including me):

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/freebies-and-deep-discounts-81631-2.html

 

[RobbieB]

For me it was the "whole joy of retirement" kicking in at the end and my co-worker asking the question. Which got my giddy mind working overtime.

I live in a modest tract house in a modest neighborhood. I like the house and the neighborhood, always have. Comfortable and a nice view.

Somehow the Maserati did not "fit" in the driveway.

So I put all the "giddy thoughts" on hold and decided to just coast for a while and not rush anything. I like it here, always have.

 

[NW-Bound]

Instead of asking about "indicators of wealth", which implies some types of consumption that are obvious to an observer, the OP could have asked "what do you splurge on when you reach FI".

There was a thread on splurging a while back. And yes, people splurge on different things. Nobody can splurge on "everything". Even if you were as rich as Buffett, where would you store all that stuff?

 

[clobber]

Instead of asking about "indicators of wealth", which implies some types of consumption that are obvious to an observer, the OP could have asked "what do you splurge on when you reach FI".

There was a thread on splurging a while back. And yes, people splurge on different things. Nobody can splurge on "everything". Even if you were as rich as Buffett, where would you store all that stuff?

Maybe so, but that still doesn't capture what I was after. I don't consider not eating at Denny's splurging (although some might).

 

[NW-Bound]

I don't think anybody consider eating at Denny's splurging, unless you are really, really down on your luck and do not even have a few bucks. But in the 1st post, I thought that you meant that people with money should rule out ever eating at Denny's. These are not the same thing.

 

[marko]

Maybe so, but that still doesn't capture what I was after.

You may be asking for indicators of wealth but all I see posted are indicators of spending.

Whether a private jet, Maserati or a mansion, they don't indicate wealth. They could indicate wealth, but everyone on this forum has stories about the 'rich' guy down the street who was really $1MM in the hole.

I'm not sure there is a true physical indicator although there may be intangible ones. An intangible indicator might be waking up every morning knowing that you can do whatever you want to do and not worry about how to pay for it.

 

[Joylush]

I guess....

I guess I'm at the point of feeling wealthy. I worry about spending enough so as not to owe any estate taxes. I spend on what I want and have enough to live comfortably for the rest of my life and still leave an inheritance.

So I'm focusing on annual giving to others/not charity. I have paid relatives school expenses, recently paid off a few student loans form my daughter's best friend, contributed to my daughter's car purchase. I bought a duplex recently (I have a lot of rental houses) which probably wasn't the greatest investment (I had to put more into it than I could immediately sell it for) but I did it as a hobby, to improve the neighborhood and to be able to offer quality affordable housing to a few more people.

I don't spend much on myself and need to learn to that more. I do tend to focus my giving on those who would never ask or expect it. I look at it as investing in responsible people. I'm not to the point of being overly generous towards those who I see as being responsible for their own neediness.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

One Point on Cars, If you lease it, it does not matter what happens in a parking lot, fix it and give it back at the end of the lease.

 

[Totoro]

What things would a wealthy person think of as good value for money that others would not?

Anything related to time.

Traveling somewhere faster if you don't like travel, giving work to people for things you don't like to do yourself.

Your own private jet on permanent standby can be a great deal for saving buckets of time to get where you want to be.

Same thing with a personal shopper.

 

[Pilot2013]

You may be asking for indicators of wealth but all I see posted are indicators of spending.

Whether a private jet, Maserati or a mansion, they don't indicate wealth. They could indicate wealth, but everyone on this forum has stories about the 'rich' guy down the street who was really $1MM in the hole.

I'm not sure there is a true physical indicator although there may be intangible ones. An intangible indicator might be waking up every morning knowing that you can do whatever you want to do and not worry about how to pay for it.

Lots of good discussion here, but I agree with this post. I think indicator of wealth is different for everyone. To me, it will be when I continue to work because I WANT to, or don't continue to work, because I DON"T WANT to.

 

[zesty]

3) Never consider staying at Motel 6 or Super 8.

I had enough bad experiences at those chains that I stopped going to them before I'd even saved 6 figures.

Now it's Hamptons or bust.

 

[hesperus]

I suppose the only true physical indicator of wealth is a current financial statement, but I'm not about to share that with anyone
Other than that, this thread is all about spending. It's easy to spend, much harder to amass wealth.

 

[audreyh1]

I guess I'm at the point of feeling wealthy. I worry about spending enough so as not to owe any estate taxes. I spend on what I want and have enough to live comfortably for the rest of my life and still leave an inheritance.

Hey - that's a good measure!

If we ever make it above $10.9M (or whatever the estate tax exemption is for a couple in a given year), we'll be sure to spend the excess!!

Even if we have to buy business class tickets to do it!!!

 

[audreyh1]

I had enough bad experiences at those chains that I stopped going to them before I'd even saved 6 figures.

Now it's Hamptons or bust.

Same here! On a long road trip staying in decent hotels really helps.

Although we had saved much more before we started that habit.

 

[2017ish]

I had enough bad experiences at those chains that I stopped going to them before I'd even saved 6 figures.

Now it's Hamptons or bust.

Hampton Inns? Or "the Hamptons"?

 

[NW-Bound]

With my 60th birthday coming up, here's a splurge that I have half-jokingly told people in my family for some years now. That is I will get myself a bottle of Cognac [-]worth[/-] costing about $1,500.

But now, I am not at all sure that I am going to go through with it. I don't care that much anymore. And about birthdays, I never really celebrate it. Just another day.

I think my wife and children will do something for me. Else, I would just go to bed early as usual. There were years I forgot it was my BD, until somebody reminded me.

PS. If they give me a bottle like this, I may tell them to return it to the store and save themselves the money.

PPS. If my wife gives me another $150 bottle, I would gladly accept it even though I still have 2 or 3 unopened bottles like that in my cabinet.