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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-26-2005, 05:22 PM   #21
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Quote:
Yikes, I hate the thought of deleting stuff.

Bill's idea of leaving the old archives as read-only may be the best answer.

Perhaps a progression something like this:

1: Set up phpBB (or other chosen software) board
2: Bill and/or volunteers attempt to migrate user/password database and maybe profile data to new board
3: Make new board primary and this software read-only.
4 a: Bill and/or volunteers attempt to migrate posts to new board
4 b: If failed, Bill and/or volunteers move read-only YaBB to new board server to avoid needing two domain names and/or two servers.

I read somewhere that PMs sometimes get associated with the wrong people in the transfer, so existing PMs will either have to be left on the old software or carefully migrated to make sure they don't go to the wrong people.

Aside from the difficult tasks of data migration I anticipate confusion with cookies and logins each time a board, IP or domain name is changed or moved. And of course there are the pains of everyone learning the new board software.

Bill, do you know the number of users, threads, posts and the size of the data store? If I don't get distracted by any bright, shiny objects I might make a mockup of this board and attempt a test migration.

Martha: We also don't want to lose the kayak info or food-headed animals.
We have at this moment, 2666 separate threads, with a total of 42,957 posts -- each being a separate file on the server. That's probably the problem.

I'll start lookig at some phpbb stuff. If you are really eager, and there are no bright shiny objects nearby to distract either of us, I can set up a test site for you to do your testing.

I agree that we have grown into too many sections -- what should be a good new starting list of sections, if we do this?

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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-27-2005, 11:18 AM   #22
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

1. Frequently asked questions
2. Investing (which would include calculators and swrs)
3. Our lives (consolidating costs, lifestyles, travel, young dreamers)
4. Coffee House (other yapping)
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-27-2005, 01:00 PM   #23
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Dory36, if you mean testing for converting/migrating YaBB to phpBB I can test mockups at home, but if you want to set up a test site I can do it there instead. No difference to me. If we want to convert, I am more optimistic now that I see there are conversion tools. People seem to have trouble with them, but I'm pretty sharp techwise.

Boards:
  • Admin board (HELP! and News and Announcements)
  • Other Topics (includes You Gotta See This and Make Money Fast; perhaps messages can be marked with special smiley to indicate scam status)
  • Withdrawal Strategies and FIREcalc (SWR board, part of Calculator boad dealing with SWR calculators)
  • Retirement Expenses (Costs of Ret Life)
  • FIRE Lifestyles and Places to Live (Lifestyles in Ret)
  • Young Dreamers
  • Investing (includes non-SWR calculator topics)
  • FIRE Travel and Boating
That's a lot more than th suggested, but I like having career and 401(k)-type talk separated from the ER stuff, and SWR, RE expenses, lifestyles, investing and travel all seem to be good dividing points to me.

Notice I left out a FAQ board. It's good to have a FAQ, but our current informal FAQ tends to attract new, duplicate or not-so-frequently asked questions. Perhaps good FAQ threads can be stickied in the appropriate board or have a hall-of-fame link list for such threads. I would suggest volunteers maintain a FAQ, but given the common theme here is ending work I'm not sure we can plan for that .
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-27-2005, 01:45 PM   #24
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Hey guys - you 'know' we're gonna cross thread anyway - as well as jump on and off topic.

Make it as easy on yourselves as possible.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-27-2005, 09:06 PM   #25
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I definitely think a hall of fame board is appropriate. Newbies (like me) can get caught up quickly on subjects and not waste everybody's time rehashing well trod ground.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 03:15 AM   #26
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

What is the consensus, try to replicate this forum, all messages, and the same structure in new software, or create a new one, with no messages, a new structure, and let them run side by side a few weeks and then freeze the old one for archives?
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 04:30 AM   #27
 
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Quote:
What is the consensus, try to replicate this forum, all messages, and the same structure in new software, or create a new one, with no messages, a new structure, and let them run side by side a few weeks and then freeze the old one for archives?
I vote to try to keep the same structure,if possible.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 07:39 AM   #28
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Create a new one.

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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 07:54 AM   #29
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I think the consensus is that work sucks and money is good, but after that we tend to diverge rapidly.

phpBB has been the default in my mind so far because it is free, open-source and apparently the most popular board software around now.

However, there are some things I like about using YaBB over phpBB, and the core problem here is post/file management, not feature or usage complaints.

For non techies, the summary of the rest of the post is that we may be able to solve the glitches and improve the speed without dramatically changing the look and feel of e-r.org forums.

In looking around I learned that YaBB SE is a PHP/MySQL-based board ported from the Perl-based YaBB. That group became Simple Machines and changed the name of YaBB SE to SMF. The license is not as open as phpBB, but it's at least as free as YaBB Gold and has an active community.

Since it's PHP-based and not CGI/Perl based the URLs will still change, but it uses the database for posts for reliability and speed and looks and acts very much like this board now. In fact we might be able to make it look almost identical.

Also it appears that converting is not as big a problem for other admins as it is to convert to phpBB.

A YaBB SE forum is at http://www.yabbse.org/community/index.php . An SMF forum is at http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php . I'm pretty sure the top and left sides are addons and won't be in the base software. I'm also guessing there will be a theme/template to make it look much more like e-r.org forums.

I have a YaBB 1 Gold SP1.1 forum set up at (test board removed) . (My DSL is spotty so this may go up and down.) I'll try installing SMF and converting. I may also try installing phpBB and converting.

EDIT: The SMF Demo Forum is a less modified (or unmodified?) version of SMF: http://support.simplemachines.org/demo/index.php

EDIT 2: Somebody made a YaBB Gold theme for SMF here, but I'll have to register on the board to look at it. I'm currently getting SMF running and am trying to clear out MySQL cobwebs from my brain.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board link.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 09:10 AM   #30
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I defer to the techies, but BMJs examples look pretty and look easy to use.

Don't like our faqs section much, it is too much a muddle of old faqs and miscellaneous questions.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 09:30 AM   #31
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

BMG, you the man! I'm am not good enough to lead this charge, but if y'all need me to do something/research something, I'll be glad to.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 10:15 AM   #32
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

There have been a few calls for features like 'ignore' and polls in the past. I'd like polls. I think theres some yabb addons for that, but I dont know if they're for yabb or se.

About the only bbs s/w I see on any of the places I haunt are yabb, phpbb and vbulletin. vbulletin is pretty good, but its a lot more work to administer...but it will take tens of thousands of users and a gazillion messages.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 10:29 AM   #33
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Polls are in SMF (not a mod), but I don't know about "ignore" yet. Also, I saw some huge YaBB SE and SMF boards that were snappy to read.

I finally remembered my MySQL root password, so I should have SMF up and running soon. (on my machine, for testing) Unless something breaks here at work.

After we determine if data migration is possible then I guess the questions are:
  • Do we want to migrate data (depends on testing)
  • Do we want the board software to behave like it does now or to behave like NFB and raddr-pages (they use phpBB)
  • Do we want to rearrange the categories/boards (this question is independent of the other two)
  • Do we really want to change anything at all?
I say "Do we...". It's Dory36's board of course, but he seems to be very open to community input.

EDIT: My SMF test forum is up at (test board removed) . Next I'll see about migrating data and changing the theme.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed link to test board
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 10:56 AM   #34
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Quote:
Polls are in SMF (not a mod), but I don't know about "ignore" yet. Also, I saw some huge YaBB SE and SMF boards that were snappy to read.

I finally remembered my MySQL root password, so I should have SMF up and running soon. (on my machine, for testing) Unless something breaks here at work.

After we determine if data migration is possible then I guess the questions are:
  • Do we want to migrate data (depends on testing)
  • Do we want the board software to behave like it does now or to behave like NFB and raddr-pages (they use phpBB)
  • Do we want to rearrange the categories/boards (this question is independent of the other two)
  • Do we really want to change anything at all?
I say "Do we...". It's Dory36's board of course, but he seems to be very open to community input.

EDIT: My SMF test forum is up at (test board removed) . Next I'll see about migrating data and changing the theme.

Just my two bits, but migrating data is yes, keep look/feel the same/similar, maybe elminate/consolidate categories, but mostly keep things the same. I've posted on several boards, this style seems the most intuitive.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board link from quoted post -BMJ
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 11:03 AM   #35
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I'd like to see a board that is easier to read. Is there a board that could display only the unread messages or at least gray out the read messages?

It would be nice to migrate data. I would hate to see everyone repeat themselves all over again.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 11:19 AM   #36
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Yeah, THAT never happens
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 12:16 PM   #37
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Well, that was easy. The data migrated fine, mostly. Some of the advanced markup features behave a little differently, but it's very minor so far.

Compare the following links. The first is the same software as this board, and the second is one of the new choices with the data from the first migrated. The second one can probably be made to look more like e-r.org, but I can't get the YaBB theme yet.

(YaBB link removed)
(SMF link removed)

Both boards allow instant registration and guest posting, so play if you wish, but it will all be deleted sooner or later.

Next I'll see about phpBB.

EDIT: phpBB is now up at (phpBB link removed) but as of this edit no migration has been attempted yet, and I will probably twiddle around with the appearnace.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board links.
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 01:13 PM   #38
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

Thanks very much for your efforts Jim. I don't have much to offer on the technical side, but have on occasion wished for an ignore option. Also, how about an option for the 20 most recent posts? Or for another page with the next ten most recent?


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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 03:20 PM   #39
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I migrated to the phpBB version. As expected, some things were lost in translation--mainly some smileys, the tables didn't quite go right, and some of the advanced markup is lost. Nothing devestating as far as content. The user names and data transferred, but I couldn't get the passwords to transfer on the first try.

SMF takes the migration well, and phpBB offers more features, I think.

e-r.org mockup w/test posts & users
SMF w/migrated data - behaves like this forum
phpBB w/migrated data - behaves like NFB or raddr-pages

EDIT: (Test boards removed from my test server. This forum migrated to SMF on April 30, 2005)

I'll look more at features later, but I think SMF has a feature where you can look at the X most recent posts, or maybe it's set in the admin panel.

By the way, both of the database-backed forums are noticeably faster on my machine. If you click around some you'll see for yourself. This is partly due to the way the languages are loaded and mostly due to how they store the messages. This slow machine of mine amplifies the effect.

EDIT Sept 30 2005: Removed test board links. This forum migrated to SMF on April 30, 2005
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...
Old 04-28-2005, 03:28 PM   #40
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Re: Looks like this Forum's Index is screwed up...

I think you can tell which one of us is still working...he takes on new projects without blinking

Good work Jim...you may have saved us from small bbs hell...
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