Maximize Quality of Life til the end?

[eytonxav]

The obvious problem with that is the possibility of cancer. However it could be that living his life like that and having cancer at the end of it is preferable to many alternatives.

Live fast, die younger...

I've never heard cancer reported as a side effect of t therapy, but have heard of blood clots, strokes and heart attacks as potential side effects.

 

[calmloki]

Accept... without regret.

Maybe easier said than done, but we've had enough experience now, dealing with many older folks in our CCRC to see the ones who are still enjoying life, and those who have given up, and have become negative and unhappy.

You would think that those who are the healthiest would also be the happiest. Yeah, to some extent, but it's really more of how well the happier people can accept their infirmities and disappointments.

I'm reminded of the story about the study of the two boys who are placed in a one way mirrored room.

The first boy is in the room with all sorts of toys and fun things to do. He sits in the corner for an hour and touches nothing. When he comes out the psychologist asks him why he didn't play. "Because I was afraid that if I touched anything, I'd break it and then I'd be in trouble."

The second boy is placed in a room filled with two feet of horse manure. To everyone's surprise, he dives and for an hour crawls around, tossing the manure up in the air, laughing all the way. When they drag him out, the amazed psychologist asks why the boy seemed to have so much fun in such an awful situation.
"With all that horses**t, there's gotta be pony in there somewhere and I'm gonna find him."
.............................................................................

And so it goes in our real life situation. With the aches and pains and illnesses of old age, and the steady decline of the mind and body in later life, it isn't always health that leads to happiness, but acceptance of what will naturally happen.

So there are happy people and sad people, and most think that they are born that way. That's where I differ. I think acceptance and happiness can be learned.

This is great! - One of our friends uses the "there's gotta be a pony in here somewhere" line often and I'd never heard it used by anyone else. Said friend uses it often when referring to my gal, as she is one who finds the best in any situation and is pretty unflaggingly positive in viewpoint.

Some years ago I flopped on the ground and the gal performed CPR till the fire department arrived and I was transported to a hospital. She has told me that she did consider that I might be brain damaged and that she would get to care for a body sans mind. She debated letting me go. After getting to the hospital all the doctors could/would tell her is "we're doing the best we can" in response to her questions about when or if I'd wake up and what my condition might be. Not a good time for her. Things worked out and now she has to use her positive attitude to put up with me.

The mother of the pony story friend is now 96 - she is and has been one of the most gracious genteel lady's I've ever known. In the last year or so her hearing has been going away, then her warfarin dose was too high and she lost her eyesight. She is still in there, but now is pretty bedridden and actively discussing her funeral preparations. Sad, but she is ready to be done..

 

[googily]

If we can pick to die of the right disease then I think it's ideal to die in your sleep, like one of my property managers. It was over overnight, perhaps it was a heart attack and not cancer.

My mother used to always describe it "waking up one morning and finding yourself dead." It was her dream scenario, but alas was about as far removed from her actual slow awful descent to the end as it could have been.

Having now lost my DH to cancer at 55, with my being 50 and with no kids I do think about how things might go for me. Certainly I would hope that, if I had some sort of progressive disease, that I will be allowed to say, you know, I think I'm done. Nothing and no one remaining worth fighting to be around for. I hope I live long enough that such options become more prevalent.

 

[CountryGal]

Similarly, my mother decided not to treat her metastatic breast cancer at age 85. She was gone 6 months later and died at home with hospice care.

I think your mother made the right choice. I watched both my parents with chemo in their early 80s. I am not sure the chemo improved their quality of life and probably made it more miserable than it had to be.

 

[Fedup]

My mom refused chemo, she died at 63, also died with hospice care, but not at home. My dad refused kidney surgery, he had dialysis 3 times a week, died of old age at 87.

 

[Moemg]

We were very lucky with my Mom . She was mobile , coherent and relatively pain free until a three weeks before her death three months before she turned 100 . She was hard of hearing and had very poor sight but she was still dressing very nicely and engaged in the activities at her community .

 

[Richard4444]

So there are happy people and sad people, and most think that they are born that way. That's where I differ. I think acceptance and happiness can be learned.

Psychologists tell us that the personality is mostly formed by age 3; and that this is a result of learning (usually from observing) from birth to age 3; so it seems that one is not born either happy or sad, but have learned it at an early age, and then it gets consistently reinforced, or hard wired. As an adult, the challenge is unlearning dysfunctional thinking.

Rich

 

[bmcgonig]

Psychologists tell us that the personality is mostly formed by age 3; and that this is a result of learning (usually from observing) from birth to age 3; so it seems that one is not born either happy or sad, but have learned it at an early age, and then it gets consistently reinforced, or hard wired. As an adult, the challenge is unlearning dysfunctional thinking.

Rich

From what I've read 60% or thereabouts of our happiness quotient is dialed in. The rest is up to us.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Not sure if this helps or hurts one's odds, but I have a 76 yo friend that is trying to find the fountain of youth. He is active playing softball, swims a few times a week, and recently started back in the gym and taking yoga class 2x/week. Now the kicker, he had one of these testosterone pellets implanted in his backside, and that has increased his t level to over 1400. That is probably off the charts even for a 18 yo. He claims to feel much better and says its increasing his muscle mass. I would think the normal level for a man his age is probably in the 300s, so from my perspective he could be setting himself up for trouble.

I wonder how we have allowed the government (FDA) to stop most of us from trying such things in our last years. I read of people going to Mexico or other countries with less restrictions to try something prohibited here. Even worse is the reluctance to prescribe strong or continuing doses of pain medications to people who are no longer driving, or even near end of life. There is some truth to the sick joke about the doctor refusing prescribe enough pain killers to the dying patient because the patient might be come addicted.

 

[davismills]

Accept... without regret.

Maybe easier said than done, but we've had enough experience now, dealing with many older folks in our CCRC to see the ones who are still enjoying life, and those who have given up, and have become negative and unhappy.

You would think that those who are the healthiest would also be the happiest. Yeah, to some extent, but it's really more of how well the happier people can accept their infirmities and disappointments.

I'm reminded of the story about the study of the two boys who are placed in a one way mirrored room.

The first boy is in the room with all sorts of toys and fun things to do. He sits in the corner for an hour and touches nothing. When he comes out the psychologist asks him why he didn't play. "Because I was afraid that if I touched anything, I'd break it and then I'd be in trouble."

The second boy is placed in a room filled with two feet of horse manure. To everyone's surprise, he dives and for an hour crawls around, tossing the manure up in the air, laughing all the way. When they drag him out, the amazed psychologist asks why the boy seemed to have so much fun in such an awful situation.
"With all that horses**t, there's gotta be pony in there somewhere and I'm gonna find him."
.............................................................................

And so it goes in our real life situation. With the aches and pains and illnesses of old age, and the steady decline of the mind and body in later life, it isn't always health that leads to happiness, but acceptance of what will naturally happen.

So there are happy people and sad people, and most think that they are born that way. That's where I differ. I think acceptance and happiness can be learned.

As always, you're spot on good sir.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

I've never heard cancer reported as a side effect of t therapy, but have heard of blood clots, strokes and heart attacks as potential side effects.

Testosterone leads to prostate cancer. I've read, and been told by my doctor, that by about 70 every man has prostate tumors. The question is whether they are slow growing or the fast growing and invasive kind.

 

[eytonxav]

Testosterone leads to prostate cancer. I've read, and been told by my doctor, that by about 70 every man has prostate tumors. The question is whether they are slow growing or the fast growing and invasive kind.

I think that is more myth than reality:
Destroying the Myth about Testosterone Replacement and Prostate Cancer - Life Extension

 

[frayne]

Don't remember who said it, we are here for a fun time, not a long time.

 

[Music Lover]

Don't remember who said it, we are here for a fun time, not a long time.

One of my bands plays this song:

 

[kimcdougc]

"Sometimes I do wonder if we've gone too far with medical advances that keep us alive, but with a very poor quality of life. Maybe its just better that our spouse lets us go when God calls us home than to exert superhuman heroic measures that keep our spirit in our body unwillingly. As for us, my wife and I have already agreed that if we are in need of medical intervention, and if the doc says we still have a great shot at a normal life, then please, do the intervention. If the intervention will just keep us alive, but it would barely be called living, we have agreed to let each other go. We'll be waiting for each other beyond the veil of death. Some will not agree with this, or believe as we do, but to each his own."

+1

 

[Teacher Terry]

Both my Mom and Dad had a DNR because they did not want a horrible quality of life. I have made sure that my friend in a nursing home that has both Alzheimer's and cancer that everyone in the home, hospice, her doc, etc knows she has one too. I am her guardian. There is a time to acknowledge that life is over and not try to hang on.

 

[Koolau]

Since none of us knows for certain about our end of life situation, we have taken steps to at least lessen the possibility that we will end up "warehoused" in some hell-hole institution, ignored, or even abused. The biggest factor to prevent this is to have an advocate. The second is to have funds which can afford good care. The latter is actually easier than the former. We both have LTC insurance (I don't recommend it - just sayin') and we aren't necessarily trying to spend our last farthing before we croak. With a little luck, we'll be fine on the finances. Finding an advocate (other than each other) seems daunting. Kids? Not sure we would "stick" them with the responsibility nor if they would be up to it. I don't know if there are "professionals" who might take on this role, but we are looking. YMMV

 

[Teacher Terry]

I think a family member or close friend that loves you is the best advocate. They really care and will do what it takes. No amount of $ could get me to advocate for a stranger. You need to visit often and not rely on the home, hospice workers, etc because they all will lie to you. I have had many sleepless night since being her advocate and have made more visits, phone calls and got myself worked up more times then I can count. With my Mom there were 3 of us to split the job.

 

[Lstansbury]

There is an association of geriatric care managers called Aging Life Care Managers. I know their national comm director and she really likes this group. You might want to interview a few, they are primarily social workers, a pretty caring bunch

 

[Lstansbury]

Also, the Medicare beneficiary QIO in your state has an immediate advocacy service that is focused on medical and provider issues, not billing. You can find them for 33 states at www.keproqio.com. The main page has an 844 phone number for your area on the map. When you call, there is an option at some point to pick "quality of care". Press that option (I think it is 2), then ask for an advocate.

 

[Lstansbury]

Livanta is the contractor handling that service for the other US states. You can just google them.