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Old 03-23-2014, 05:33 PM   #41
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Vicente's mom sounds like an elder who is abusing adult children.

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Let's not be so hasty here.

Child abuse: the child is taken out of the house and placed in a foster home.

Elder abuse: the elder is taken out of the house and placed in a foster home.

Problem solved.
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Old 03-23-2014, 05:59 PM   #42
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I hate to say it, but after reading your replies here, Vicente, I think the situation with your mother is not going to change--she is doing what she wants and you do not want to endure her reaction to being asked to do things differently so you are going to avoid discussing the issues with her. You presented her views well, and given her age and mindset, you probably are right.

I am going to be extra careful from now on in my adult kids' homes to observe boundaries!
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:47 PM   #43
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Take your mom to visit one of your siblings. Leave while she is in the bathroom.
LOL! But yes!
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:09 PM   #44
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She is not a suitcase. Suitcases don't cause drama, don't act like they're the boss, nor do they smoke up your house with cigarettes.

It is not easy to be the transitional generation - the ones who determine to be "different" with their own adult children. We are trying to pay attention and be engaged without being intrusive, and to wait until asked the second time before venturing any advice (a`la BestWifeEver).

Kindest regards.
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:32 PM   #45
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Money.

As strange or unlikely as it sounds, plain talk about the overall financial situation, mother and family. Moving to larger accomodations, subsidizing remodeling to accomodate, MIL cottage or building addition is not unreasonable. Hiring a companion... housekeeper or health aide... cost to be borne by the guest from the owned assets, or otherwise by responsible family members.

Most of responsibility at any age is measured by the final arbiter... Money.

A free ride is a sure road to empowerment and entitilement. We all pay our way and accept responsibility for ourselves. At any age, for a an able bodied person, this responsibility is a measure of self approval. Some call it pride.

When reason fails, money talks.

Objective- to move away from emotion and enter into practicality. For ALL concerned.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:14 PM   #46
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Yes, money can and does solve many problems.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:07 AM   #47
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Failing all of the above very useful, clever, and effective tactics, if you are unable to otherwise deal with the situation: retreat. Put a lock on your bedroom door. Spend your time as a couple in there. Do NOT allow your mother inside. Any ploys or threats on her part to gain entry can be answered with, "Our marriage bed is private."
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:37 AM   #48
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I hate to say it, but after reading your replies here, Vicente, I think the situation with your mother is not going to change--she is doing what she wants and you do not want to endure her reaction to being asked to do things differently so you are going to avoid discussing the issues with her. You presented her views well, and given her age and mindset, you probably are right.

I am going to be extra careful from now on in my adult kids' homes to observe boundaries!
Vicente is quite good at getting himself into unpleasant situations, which given his attitudes and constraints seem to have no exit. And our board members are quite good at trying to suggest exits, though there has never been an instance where he put any of these suggestions into play.

And the beat goes on...


I sure agree with your take-home about being sure to have accurate boundary perceptions regarding you own children. I try to ask myself periodically, with my adult children, my girlfriend, etc.,-am I taking things for granted, am I out of touch with current reality. Social practices change constantly or at least continually, and it is easy for us to just carry forward familiar assumptions from the past.

Overall I think that many of us over 50 tend to annoy younger people because we either have no idea how they think, or just assume that it is immature and inferior to the way we think. By far our most important job with adult children ordinarily will be to be likable and respectful in our dealings with them.

Ha
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:58 AM   #49
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Overall I think that many of us over 50 tend to annoy younger people because we either have no idea how they think, or just assume that it is immature and inferior to the way we think. By far our most important job with adult children ordinarily will be to be likable and respectful in our dealings with them

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After decades of being the Dad that was responsible for shaping my children's morals, education and social integration... the awakening... How wonderful to open a new door to a circle of friends.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:11 AM   #50
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Ha ha:
Yeah yeah .... I am a pitiful weakling and a pushover. And I deserve whatever will be coming my way regarding this issue.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:32 AM   #51
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I might put up with some if this for a very short period of time (maybe a week).

After that sorry mom you have to go.

There is zero chance she would be smoking in my house and the television would be off during daytime hours.

Also she does not get any input to how I I live my life and if she wants to sulk that is perfect. Less noise for me.

By the way, if she does stay, she will like it better in the normal environment you establish and demand.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:57 AM   #52
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We will sometime soon have to be dealing with what I fear is a similar situation for my mother, except while she says she wants to remain independent she seems reluctant to accept assists that would allow her to stay independent. OTOH, she smokes as well and none of us are keen on hosting her given her smoking.

What we are heading towards is situation where she will be living on her own but where me or one of my 4 siblings is close by and can check in on her every day, have her over for dinner once or twice a week, send over meals to her occasionally, etc. In the summer it is easy since she lives a 3 minute walk down the road from us and between DW and I we can pop in an check in on her frequently enough.

In the winter she lives 1,700 miles away from any of us. We would like to have her move to either senior housing or assisted living near 3 of my siblings and in the winter between the 3 of them and her grandchildren they can check in on her frequently. Alternatively, a guest cottage or MIL apartment on one of my siblings properties may be a winter possibility as well.

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...Yeah yeah .... I am a pitiful weakling and a pushover. And I deserve whatever will be coming my way regarding this issue.
No disrespect, but IMHO it is time to grow a pair and exhibit some tough love to save your marriage and your life.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:07 PM   #53
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Ha ha:
Yeah yeah .... I am a pitiful weakling and a pushover. And I deserve whatever will be coming my way regarding this issue.
Well, in your defense, you're trying to do the right thing, and are being taken advantage. It's alarmingly easy to fall into this position, but much harder to extract yourself from same...
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:14 PM   #54
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What we are heading towards is situation where she will be living on her own
With my mom, the time came that living in her own apartment (just ten miles from me) became too much for her. Walking the two blocks to the supermarket was impossible because it was all uphill in both directions. Cooking was such a chore that she quit doing it. Ordering food from the nearby restaurants that delivered was out of the question "because I don't want to."

So after a number of weeks of bringing her meals, I finally had enough. I insisted that she move into a retirement community. This was a very nice place that was actually closer to my house. Everyone had their own apartment in the building, with twice a week maid service included. Three meals were served each day in the dining room down the hall (just a five minute walk from her door, walking slowly). It was perfect for her. And after a month or so of grumbling, she came to love it, with lots of new friends of a similar age.

That stage lasted for a number of years, and worked out really well. After that, she needed an assisted living facility, but my point is that there are usually options.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:18 PM   #55
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A friend of mine who lived out of state from his mother gave her two choices near the end of her life. She could either move into an assisted living place or have a full time attendant in her home. Since he made the choices he picked two choices that he could live with. She liked the idea that she could choose her future and chose the live in attendant. They were both happy with the choice.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:18 PM   #56
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With my mom, the time came that living in her own apartment (just ten miles from me) became too much for her. Walking the two blocks to the supermarket was impossible because it was all uphill in both directions. Cooking was such a chore that she quit doing it. Ordering food from the nearby restaurants that delivered was out of the question "because I don't want to."

So after a number of weeks of bringing her meals, I finally had enough. I insisted that she move into a retirement community. This was a very nice place that was actually closer to my house. Everyone had their own apartment in the building, with twice a week maid service included. Three meals were served each day in the dining room down the hall (just a five minute walk from her door, walking slowly). It was perfect for her. And after a month or so of grumbling, she came to love it, with lots of new friends of a similar age.

That stage lasted for a number of years, and worked out really well. After that, she needed an assisted living facility, but my point is that there are usually options.
What you describe would be our ideal solution and is called assisted living around here. There is an assisted living facility within a few miles of my 3 siblings. Mom's brother lives in one in California that is great. He has a nice one-bedroom apartment with a small kitchenette and goes down to the dining room for each meal. Each meal usually has a few menu choices and is also a opportunity for the residents to be social.

Mom is a bit of a picky eater so that could be a problem. I offered to set up a meals on wheels delivery a few days a week so she could avoid the chore of cooking but she wouldn't have any of it. You can only do so much.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:20 PM   #57
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I know this is a delicate and sensitive issue but I need to tell somebody how I feel, which is.....trapped in my own house. When she came I told her to make herself at home. And she most certainly did!
She has her own room with all the fixtures, but she is never there. She is a chain smoker and I am trying to stay quit. 12 hours a day of TV in the family room when it used to be off. Intruding and constantly meddling in our conversation. No intimacy of any kind. The last one to go to bed and the first up. Letting at all time her presence known. Constantly watching us she is pusshing us to barely used parts of our home.
She cant stand any sort of advice or comment: the result-dignified silence, hurt pride and sulkiness.
I could go on.... But I think all of you get the picture.
Should I have a showdown with her, setting basic reasonable limits....or...there is nothing to be done.
Ah....There are 9 of us siblings, but I have this ominous feeling of being the one stuck with this situation.

How long has she lived with you now? Curious because I had my folks simply visiting me and I reached breaking point in like 9days. It was mainly my dad, and I love him to death but its funny how living with them again brings out the nasty in everyone.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:54 PM   #58
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My mother, who was 40 when I was born (thus, well past 50 when I was a teen) and was not from the U.S., expressed a very similar view to Ha's quote. She said she realized the times in which I was growing up were very different from when she grew up, and that she trusted me to show common sense and display class, whatever the situation. She was always interested in what I had to say (even though I'm sure she felt like rolling her eyes at times!) and often asked me about my views on things. Also, my teenage friends liked Mom because she was interested in what they had to say.

I don't "get" the excuses I'm hearing in this thread about how it's expected that older women from non-U.S. cultures naturally will be selfish, intrusive, and boring. What, are they taught that in some kind of school which my Mother, and her mother, somehow missed attending?

I think Vicente just needed to blow off steam and hear from somebody who isn't in the middle of the situation. This forum is a fine resource for that kind of help.

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Overall I think that many of us over 50 tend to annoy younger people because we either have no idea how they think, or just assume that it is immature and inferior to the way we think. By far our most important job with adult children ordinarily will be to be likable and respectful in our dealings with them.

Ha
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:27 PM   #59
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All of this is resonating for me.

7 years ago we completed construction on a free standing granny flat on our lot - completely handicap accessible. (FIL was in a wheelchair.) MIL and FIL moved in, but felt disconnected from their family/siblings. FIL had advanced dementia and was completely wheelchair bound - but MIL insisted on taking him (BY TRAIN because she feared flying) to the Jersey shore for 2 months (jointly owned family bungalow), then back to her home in Kentucky, near where my SIL lives. She did this 3 state migration for 5 years.

She agreed it was easiest to care for my FIL in the granny flat. But she wanted to return to Philly, PA (a 4th state) because that's where her friends and siblings were. But when offered help to go househunting, she'd find excuses not to go look for a suitable living situation there.

A year and a half ago she announced she was not returning to the Casita. We started renting out.
A year ago we realized her dementia had advanced significantly - and DH and SIL obtained guardianship of her and FIL. She fought FIL going to nursing home tooth and nail but she'd fired in home nursing care we hired. (He's since passed.)

Now we're at the point she needs to probably move to a memory care unit someplace. She's been living independently - but under close observation of SIL who goes to visit daily. SIL can't keep it up - she has her own issues to deal with. It's time to go into assisted living, but MIL is absolutely against it. We've offered to have her move into the casita again - she's absolutely against it.

My husband's family is Italian - so some of the same cultural things are at play. I enjoyed having the in-laws in the casita - it was 50 feet from our house - so we could assist at any time without having to get in a car - but she had her own house, we had our own house - the perfect scenario.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:00 PM   #60
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All of this is resonating for me.

7 years ago we completed construction on a free standing granny flat on our lot - completely handicap accessible. (FIL was in a wheelchair.) MIL and FIL moved in, but felt disconnected from their family/siblings. FIL had advanced dementia and was completely wheelchair bound - but MIL insisted on taking him (BY TRAIN because she feared flying) to the Jersey shore for 2 months (jointly owned family bungalow), then back to her home in Kentucky, near where my SIL lives. She did this 3 state migration for 5 years.

She agreed it was easiest to care for my FIL in the granny flat. But she wanted to return to Philly, PA (a 4th state) because that's where her friends and siblings were. But when offered help to go househunting, she'd find excuses not to go look for a suitable living situation there.

A year and a half ago she announced she was not returning to the Casita. We started renting out.
A year ago we realized her dementia had advanced significantly - and DH and SIL obtained guardianship of her and FIL. She fought FIL going to nursing home tooth and nail but she'd fired in home nursing care we hired. (He's since passed.)

Now we're at the point she needs to probably move to a memory care unit someplace. She's been living independently - but under close observation of SIL who goes to visit daily. SIL can't keep it up - she has her own issues to deal with. It's time to go into assisted living, but MIL is absolutely against it. We've offered to have her move into the casita again - she's absolutely against it.

My husband's family is Italian - so some of the same cultural things are at play. I enjoyed having the in-laws in the casita - it was 50 feet from our house - so we could assist at any time without having to get in a car - but she had her own house, we had our own house - the perfect scenario.
Certainly resonates here as well. When I found our place in a nice rural area I thought "perfect for my mom. She's in her own little guest house less than 75 ft from our home - wonderful!" When we moved in she said "you are crazy if you think I'm going to live in that little house over there" So she moved in with us. After a short while my wife said " if she stays I'm gone" So I found her an apartment in town, and shortly thereafter dementia became more pronounced and assisted living and then nursing homes soon followed. There are no perfect answers and each family writes its own version of this Greek tragedy.
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