National Park Etiquette

[FI by 2024]

Am I missing some thing or do we need to start giving etiquette lessons to people who visit national parks?

This thought occurs to me for several reasons. Two are recent incidents in Yellowstone where one group intentionally wandered off the boardwalks to video themselves next to hot pools, geysers, etc. This was a clear violation of the warnings and maybe even the law. The other is the unfortunate death of a young man who fell into an acidic hot pool and was dissolved.

At other times in other parks I see people walking past ropes into meadows that are off-limits, people cut the switchbacks on trails, and don't even get started on how people get dangerously close to animals for photos and feeding. Then there are the dog owners who take their pets on trails in violation of the rules and often off-leash.

While I 100% support following the rules and using common sense, please be careful about lumping dog owners in with rule breakers. I have twice been confronted by patrons in national parks about how my dog "shouldn't be here." Both times I checked the rules before going to the park as well as confirmed with the park ranger when I arrived. Dogs are allowed in many (I think most) national parks, including on the trails. If you are certain you are in a park where dogs are not allowed, feel free to confront the idiot owner. And yeah, I do think dogs should be leashed on trails but I know there are plenty of people who disagree with me.

 

[eytonxav]

While I 100% support following the rules and using common sense, please be careful about lumping dog owners in with rule breakers.

I don't think he was lumping dog owners in general, as he stated the specific case of "in violation with the rules" and "off-leash".

 

[Car-Guy]

In my Alaska days I carried a Ruger 44 magnum, w/hollowpoints. 5 in the cylinder, 4 for the bear, and if It is still coming the 5th was for me. It was infinitelly better choice than what the bear would mete out.

I would guess the reason you only kept 5 in the cylinder (instead of the 6 it will hold) is because the "older model" Ruger Super Blackhawks didn't have a firing pin safety transfer bar. If you still have the gun, I believe Ruger may still offer a free upgrade to add the transfer bar.

 

[FI by 2024]

I don't think he was lumping dog owners in general, as he stated the specific case of "in violation with the rules" and "off-leash".

I understood that, which is why I said "please be careful" instead of "please don't." Also why I gave the example of my twice being confronted by people who thought I was violating the rules, when I was not. I'm okay with being annoyed at people breaking the rules.

 

[audreyh1]

I would guess the reason you only kept 5 in the cylinder (instead of the 6 it will hold) is because the "older model" Ruger Super Blackhawks didn't have a firing pin safety transfer bar. If you still have the gun, I believe Ruger may still offer a free upgrade to add the transfer bar.

LOL!

Yeah - upgrade! One more for the bear!

 

[Sarah in SC]

This came across my radar yesterday and I thought of this thread. Lamenting the lack of etiquette in Yellowstone.

A Sad Tale of Photographing in Yellowstone

 

[Amethyst]

That'll teach him manners!

The other is the unfortunate death of a young man who fell into an acidic hot pool and was dissolved.

.

 

[Sojourner]

I have a feeling there's got to be some sort of correlation between the increasing lack of etiquette and respect for nature and the rise of the "selfie stick" and social media and everyone having a cellphone/camera with them at all times. Experiencing nature is now all about posting pictures of yourself instantly so that all your friends on Facebook and Instagram can see that hey, you really were there and you did something really cool and maybe even kinda dangerous. In the minds of many (particularly millennials) these days, if it's not posted to your social media feed, it either didn't happen or doesn't matter, and the more eye-popping and unusual the picture, the better. Thus, we get the selfies of idiots smiling and posing right up close to gators or bears or moose. I think, sadly, this is a trend that will continue to get worse as cameras and devices get smaller and smarter and even easier to use over time.

 

[Chuckanut]

I was also thinking of some of the simple rules that people don't know about such as right of way:

It seems that many hikers—even experienced ones—may not know or always remember this, but hikers going uphill have the right of way. This is because in general hikers heading up an incline have a smaller field of vision and may also be in that “hiking rhythm” zone and not in the mood to break their pace. Often an uphill hiker may let others come downhill while they take a breather, but remember that’s the uphill hiker’s call.

 

[Amethyst]

In 1985 I visited Paris and London; my first big trip out on my own. My journal notes on visiting the Louvre include a comment about other tourists, armed with large, non-digital cameras, surrounding/obscuring my view of the famous artworks; seemingly not admiring the art or even really looking at it; just wanting to take pictures of it so they could prove they'd been there.

I have a feeling there's got to be some sort of correlation between the increasing lack of etiquette and respect for nature and the rise of the "selfie stick" and social media and everyone having a cellphone/camera with them at all times.... , if it's not posted to your social media feed, it either didn't happen or doesn't matter

 

[Texas Proud]

I bought some bear spray for our trip to Smokey Mountains, I did see the odd other person with some which made me feel better.
Usually there were lots of other tourists around, so I figured one of the little kids would be a good snack rather than old stringy me.
We did see some bears, all at a very safe distance.
There are videos of the bear spray being used on bears and it really works well without any aiming.
It's about $25 for a big can, it was comforting to have.
Now its comforting in the bedside table.

Just bought from Amazon 2 cans at $37 per can... compliant with Canada and 'supposed' to be the best... We are going to visit a number of parks this summer and even go into Canada...

Just like insurance, you hope you do not need it but would hate to be without it when needed...

 

[Texas Proud]

Back in the 1980s I worked a season at Yellowstone National Park. Some good tourist stories, but my favorite is one from the Park Service civil engineer I worked for regarding Everglades NP, where he has previously worked. All the signs said don't take your dogs on the walkways, but he reported that people would constantly be complaining their little lap dog was eaten by an alligator. as a 30 year old, that struck me as amazing and humorous. Now that I'm older, It strikes me as dog abuse. The dog didn't choose to walk into an alligator place. That's why that story has stuck with me, I guess.

A guy I worked with used to volunteer at a park near here that has alligators... we have been there a few times ourselves...

His story is similar... but here the gators usually are just sunning themselves and you can get pretty close to them.... but, this one lady was allowing her dog to run into the water... a ranger came up to her and told her that is not allowed... she was giving him an earful when there was a loud 'snap'... a big gator snapped the dog and threw it on a big of land in the pond and disappeared... the lady started yelling at the ranger that they needed to get her dog!!! He just walked away....


Yes, I agree that it is animal abuse... but in a way it is also how life works... if it were a feral dog it would also be dead... then again, maybe that dog would be smarter and not be swimming where gators live...

 

[pb4uski]

I love it! Natural consequences at its best.

 

[Sunset]

Just bought from Amazon 2 cans at $37 per can... compliant with Canada and 'supposed' to be the best... We are going to visit a number of parks this summer and even go into Canada...

Just like insurance, you hope you do not need it but would hate to be without it when needed...

Make sure it says bear spray on the cans (pepper spray is illegal in Canada).
Keep/bring the information instructions if they talk about when bear charges you how to use it.
Always refer to it as bear spray, the Canadian customs are picky.
It would not hurt to print out the Canadian Customs page where it says bear spray is allowed.

(Canada does not allow guns, so don't try to bring them. And all knives you bring are for cutting vegetables, even tactical knives, as knives for self-defence are illegal )

I had bought my at Cabela's (normally expensive) but was on a sale.
Hopefully you never have to use it.

 

[MRG]

Make sure it says bear spray on the cans (pepper spray is illegal in Canada).
Keep/bring the information instructions if they talk about when bear charges you how to use it.
Always refer to it as bear spray, the Canadian customs are picky.
It would not hurt to print out the Canadian Customs page where it says bear spray is allowed.

(Canada does not allow guns, so don't try to bring them. And all knives you bring are for cutting vegetables, even tactical knives, as knives for self-defence are illegal )

I had bought my at Cabela's (normally expensive) but was on a sale.
Hopefully you never have to use it.

I'll have to tell my buddy about no guns in Canada. He's going bear hunting up there but he wasn't going to use bear spray.

 

[Aerides]

I have little/no sympathy from those that stray "off the path" as it were, and suffer consequences.

I'm more concerned about the damage humans do when they don't fall prey: stepping on nests, destroying habitats, littering, carving their names into historic rocks and trees, etc.

That's the kind of etiquette breach that hurts everyone, but isn't solved via a hungry alligator proving Darwin right.

 

[Sunset]

I'll have to tell my buddy about no guns in Canada. He's going bear hunting up there but he wasn't going to use bear spray.

Well, it's true if you fill out a form, pay $25/gun and the border guard lets you in, you can bring a long gun for a certain time period.

Annoyingly you cannot get pre-approval for it, so you can do all that and show up and they can deny it. Then you have to drive home to to put the gun away, and drive back to the border.
Just really dumb for a bunch of reasons including security, since currently they cannot "pre-screen" you, they have less time to figure out if you are good/bad.

 

[EastWest Gal]

At age 6 we went to Yellowstone this was in '63. Bears all over the park and morons teasing them with food. At age 6 I knew these people were id10ts.

Gosh, I was there the following year. I was four. I remember the bears. They were everywhere. They were nerve wracking. It seemed like we were jumping in our car at every meal. My parents really obeyed all rules with respect to bears and everything else. We never camped there again.

Every year we see stories about the disasters who befall people who go beyond the boundaries. Falling in the Grand Canyon, falling over waterfalls, feeding bears, etc. The recent news about the guy who fell into the acid hot pool in Yellowstone. Today there is a story about a toddler who was dragged away by an alligator on Disney property in Florida. At 9:30 PM. What is a 2 year old doing near the water at 9:30 PM? Good grief. I feel really bad for the child. It was the parents' stupidity or lack of supervision that put the child at risk.

But unfortunately, stupidity is nothing new.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Winemaker]

DW and I hike all over this great country of ours. We carry bear spray and I carry a Glock 43 converted to a 10mm. DW has affinity for attracting wild life; and I don't mean the two legged kind.

Last year after lugging my Glock all over the countryside in Wyoming, I decided not to carry on a urban hike out of Steamboat, CO while returning to Denver.

DW wanted to eat lunch so we found an exceptable area and began to eat, other hikers and mountain bikers passed us by. While she finished up, I scouted ahead about 100 yds; when she screamed. I ran back only to find her with the bear spray out with the can in one hand and the spray nozzle in the other. I got the biggest a$$ chewing when she found out the Glock was still in the car.

We waited for others to come by before we returned through that path, figuring safety in numbers. We got through the bear area safely, only to confront a moose about 3 miles down the trail.

Moral: Make sure your bear spray is operational and intact, it will save you an a$$ chewing. It's worse than getting eaten by a bear.

 

[Redbugdave]

I think you will like this...Louis CK...Lions and Human Evolution...(it is clean)...

 

[Car-Guy]

Happens even at/near world class resorts....

Walt Disney World Beaches, Marinas Closed After Alligator Drags Toddler Into Lake - ABC News

 

[DrRoy]

I will sometimes go past a rail for landscape photography, but I do not walk where it is specifically disallowed or approach wildlife, and I do not bring my dog, or leave any trash.

 

[eytonxav]

DW and I hike all over this great country of ours. We carry bear spray and I carry a Glock 43 converted to a 10mm. DW has affinity for attracting wild life; and I don't mean the two legged kind.

Last year after lugging my Glock all over the countryside in Wyoming, I decided not to carry on a urban hike out of Steamboat, CO while returning to Denver.

DW wanted to eat lunch so we found an exceptable area and began to eat, other hikers and mountain bikers passed us by. While she finished up, I scouted ahead about 100 yds; when she screamed. I ran back only to find her with the bear spray out with the can in one hand and the spray nozzle in the other. I got the biggest a$$ chewing when she found out the Glock was still in the car.

We waited for others to come by before we returned through that path, figuring safety in numbers. We got through the bear area safely, only to confront a moose about 3 miles down the trail.

Moral: Make sure your bear spray is operational and intact, it will save you an a$$ chewing. It's worse than getting eaten by a bear.

Had a Glock 20. 10MM is a great flat shooting round but I wouldn't want to use it for protection against a bear, especially those bears with the hump at the base of their necks.

 

[pjm-7]

At least the court at Yellowstone is going after these people. This guy wanted to take a sample of the thermal water.

Yellowstone Fines Visitor $1,000 For Walking Off Boardwalk

Also, the four Canadians who thought it would be funny to dance on a hot spring now have a court date with YNP to answer to a magistrate.

Canadian ‘High On Life’ Guys Set Phone Conference For YNP Federal Court

 

[Hermit]

Last Saturday morning I did cleanup along a well used 4-wheel road as part of our 4-wheel group service project. Drugs, alcohol, guns, squatters - as the forest service people referred to them. I spent the morning removing and painting over graffiti. A lot of camp sites in the area have been closed to try to control the craziness.