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Old 06-13-2016, 12:20 PM   #41
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At least around here, our black bears will typically avoid you unless you end up between a mother and its cub or if they are really, really hungry. With a few exceptions, they are big scaredy cats.

Other bears are different... more aggressive.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:32 PM   #42
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At least around here, our black bears will typically avoid you unless you end up between a mother and its cub or if they are really, really hungry. With a few exceptions, they are big scaredy cats.

Other bears are different... more aggressive.
Not sure exactly where you are located, but you might have much more to worry about when encountering a moose, especially hitting one with car.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:40 PM   #43
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Absolutely. For many vehicles, the impact will cut under the legs and you have a 600-1,400+ pound mass of body hitting the windshield at high speed. Very dangerous.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:43 PM   #44
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At least around here, our black bears will typically avoid you unless you end up between a mother and its cub ............. .
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:53 PM   #45
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+1

Just got back from a week in St John, many hikes, snorkeling and kayaking... More than once on some of the hikes we said the trails would have been roped off and sterilized if they were in a national park in the continental US.


St. John....Great Island...Stay on the trails or you may run into one of those "Killer Donkeys", Ha! I agree with Is99... For the past recent decades we have been creating laws trying to eliminate Social Darwinism... And one can easily tell the population's gene pool is starting to see the ramifications from messing with "mother nature".


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Old 06-13-2016, 07:27 PM   #46
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In my Alaska days I carried a Ruger 44 magnum, w/hollowpoints. 5 in the cylinder, 4 for the bear, and if It is still coming the 5th was for me. It was infinitelly better choice than what the bear would mete out.

Most of the time also had a 444 Marlin lever action as an assistant.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:31 PM   #47
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Now that would be cool. And put some "teeth" in it too.

Sorry sir, but there's a thousand dollar fine for outside the barrier. Visa or Mastercard?

I don't have a grand. Go fish.

Have fun walking home (impounds vehicle)
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:29 PM   #48
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Back in the 1980s I worked a season at Yellowstone National Park. Some good tourist stories, but my favorite is one from the Park Service civil engineer I worked for regarding Everglades NP, where he has previously worked. All the signs said don't take your dogs on the walkways, but he reported that people would constantly be complaining their little lap dog was eaten by an alligator. as a 30 year old, that struck me as amazing and humorous. Now that I'm older, It strikes me as dog abuse. The dog didn't choose to walk into an alligator place. That's why that story has stuck with me, I guess.
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:03 AM   #49
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I bought some bear spray for our trip to Smokey Mountains, I did see the odd other person with some which made me feel better.
Usually there were lots of other tourists around, so I figured one of the little kids would be a good snack rather than old stringy me.
We did see some bears, all at a very safe distance.
There are videos of the bear spray being used on bears and it really works well without any aiming.
It's about $25 for a big can, it was comforting to have.
Now its comforting in the bedside table.
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Old 06-14-2016, 02:38 AM   #50
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There is no way to stop it. The only thing that may deter people is to slap them with enormous fines...$1,000 minimum maybe...maybe more. National parks are always complaining about funding. This could be a great opportunity. You will always have a steady flow of dumb people.
I agree.

In the Canadian Rockies last year we came across several trails with big signs warning of bears, and the signs said only groups of at least 4 people are allowed beyond this point and they have to be carrying bear spray. Penalty for non-compliance $15,000.
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National Park Etiquette
Old 06-14-2016, 03:19 AM   #51
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National Park Etiquette

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Am I missing some thing or do we need to start giving etiquette lessons to people who visit national parks?

This thought occurs to me for several reasons. Two are recent incidents in Yellowstone where one group intentionally wandered off the boardwalks to video themselves next to hot pools, geysers, etc. This was a clear violation of the warnings and maybe even the law. The other is the unfortunate death of a young man who fell into an acidic hot pool and was dissolved.

At other times in other parks I see people walking past ropes into meadows that are off-limits, people cut the switchbacks on trails, and don't even get started on how people get dangerously close to animals for photos and feeding. Then there are the dog owners who take their pets on trails in violation of the rules and often off-leash.

While I 100% support following the rules and using common sense, please be careful about lumping dog owners in with rule breakers. I have twice been confronted by patrons in national parks about how my dog "shouldn't be here." Both times I checked the rules before going to the park as well as confirmed with the park ranger when I arrived. Dogs are allowed in many (I think most) national parks, including on the trails. If you are certain you are in a park where dogs are not allowed, feel free to confront the idiot owner. And yeah, I do think dogs should be leashed on trails but I know there are plenty of people who disagree with me.
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Old 06-14-2016, 07:51 AM   #52
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While I 100% support following the rules and using common sense, please be careful about lumping dog owners in with rule breakers.
I don't think he was lumping dog owners in general, as he stated the specific case of "in violation with the rules" and "off-leash".
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Old 06-14-2016, 08:18 AM   #53
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In my Alaska days I carried a Ruger 44 magnum, w/hollowpoints. 5 in the cylinder, 4 for the bear, and if It is still coming the 5th was for me. It was infinitelly better choice than what the bear would mete out.
I would guess the reason you only kept 5 in the cylinder (instead of the 6 it will hold) is because the "older model" Ruger Super Blackhawks didn't have a firing pin safety transfer bar. If you still have the gun, I believe Ruger may still offer a free upgrade to add the transfer bar.
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Old 06-14-2016, 08:35 AM   #54
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I don't think he was lumping dog owners in general, as he stated the specific case of "in violation with the rules" and "off-leash".

I understood that, which is why I said "please be careful" instead of "please don't." Also why I gave the example of my twice being confronted by people who thought I was violating the rules, when I was not. I'm okay with being annoyed at people breaking the rules.
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Old 06-14-2016, 09:18 AM   #55
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I would guess the reason you only kept 5 in the cylinder (instead of the 6 it will hold) is because the "older model" Ruger Super Blackhawks didn't have a firing pin safety transfer bar. If you still have the gun, I believe Ruger may still offer a free upgrade to add the transfer bar.
LOL!

Yeah - upgrade! One more for the bear!
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:07 AM   #56
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This came across my radar yesterday and I thought of this thread. Lamenting the lack of etiquette in Yellowstone.

A Sad Tale of Photographing in Yellowstone
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:14 AM   #57
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That'll teach him manners!

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The other is the unfortunate death of a young man who fell into an acidic hot pool and was dissolved.

.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:50 AM   #58
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I have a feeling there's got to be some sort of correlation between the increasing lack of etiquette and respect for nature and the rise of the "selfie stick" and social media and everyone having a cellphone/camera with them at all times. Experiencing nature is now all about posting pictures of yourself instantly so that all your friends on Facebook and Instagram can see that hey, you really were there and you did something really cool and maybe even kinda dangerous. In the minds of many (particularly millennials) these days, if it's not posted to your social media feed, it either didn't happen or doesn't matter, and the more eye-popping and unusual the picture, the better. Thus, we get the selfies of idiots smiling and posing right up close to gators or bears or moose. I think, sadly, this is a trend that will continue to get worse as cameras and devices get smaller and smarter and even easier to use over time.
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:07 AM   #59
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I was also thinking of some of the simple rules that people don't know about such as right of way:

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It seems that many hikers—even experienced ones—may not know or always remember this, but hikers going uphill have the right of way. This is because in general hikers heading up an incline have a smaller field of vision and may also be in that “hiking rhythm” zone and not in the mood to break their pace. Often an uphill hiker may let others come downhill while they take a breather, but remember that’s the uphill hiker’s call.
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Old 06-14-2016, 11:24 AM   #60
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In 1985 I visited Paris and London; my first big trip out on my own. My journal notes on visiting the Louvre include a comment about other tourists, armed with large, non-digital cameras, surrounding/obscuring my view of the famous artworks; seemingly not admiring the art or even really looking at it; just wanting to take pictures of it so they could prove they'd been there.

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I have a feeling there's got to be some sort of correlation between the increasing lack of etiquette and respect for nature and the rise of the "selfie stick" and social media and everyone having a cellphone/camera with them at all times.... , if it's not posted to your social media feed, it either didn't happen or doesn't matter
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