National Park Etiquette

[Sunset]

When we went to Niagara Falls on the Canadian side, we saw folks climbing on the fence at the edge of the falls (picture shows the fence and water).
If you fall over, you are gone.
Sure enough a week after we were there some female student fell over.
About 30 years ago, a woman dropped her baby over while holding it up in the air, the day before I arrived there.

 

[Car-Guy]

From the US Fish and Wildlife Services:The question is not one of marksmanship or clear thinking in the face of a growling bear, for even a skilled marksman with steady nerves may have a slim chance of deterring a bear attack with a gun. Law enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality -- based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person’s chance of incurring serious injury froma charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.

As the old man said in the movie Shooter = They also said that artificial sweeteners were safe, WMDs were in Iraq and Anna Nicole married for love.

I'm not sure if bear/pepper spray works or not and I hope I never get so close to a bear to try it, especially a 1200+ lb charging Grizzle. However, I know the stopping power of my 44, so if I'm forced to decide, I'll take my chances with it.

 

[braumeister]

I'm not sure if bear/pepper spray works or not and I hope I never get so close to a bear to try it, especially a 1200+ lb charging Grizzle. However, I know the stopping power of my 44, so if I'm forced to decide, I'll take my chances with it.

According to a friend who has lived in Alaska for decades, bear spray does work.

Long ago, I used to go camping in bear country and those trips are the only ones where I also carried a .44 magnum (Dirty Harry gun). That's the least I would have any confidence in with bears. Their skulls are extremely hard and the angles make most bullets simply bounce off.

 

[gromit]

Of course I'm just joking, but an alternative to spraying the poor, innocent, but angry bear, is to just spray the idiot antagonizing the bear and then run. As slow a runner as I am, I think I could outrun a pepper sprayed idiot on a tree lined trail.

 

[Car-Guy]

According to a friend who has lived in Alaska for decades, bear spray does work.

Long ago, I used to go camping in bear country and those trips are the only ones where I also carried a .44 magnum (Dirty Harry gun). That's the least I would have any confidence in with bears. Their skulls are extremely hard and the angles make most bullets simply bounce off.

I'd much rather have my 458 WinMag myself, but if I only my 44mag and a can of bear spray, I'll still take the 44.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Like ChiliP, I remarked many times in our travels how unencumbered hikers and visitors to natural areas in other countries are. Visiting Tikal, in Guatemala, you are free to climb the towers, with one offering only rickety old wood ladders lashed to the side, and wander around on top. If you fell off, well, too bad. The whole thing would have been roped off if it was in the USA. Likewise the also ill-advised chasing of wild camels in Mongolia.

When in Yellowstone a few years ago, we saw no less than 100 people lined up to take photos along a road of a mama bear and her cubs. The rangers were there, preventing people from getting any closer. Otherwise I'm sure more than a few would have gone right up to her.

 

[gromit]

...
When in Yellowstone a few years ago, we saw no less than 100 people lined up to take photos along a road of a mama bear and her cubs. The rangers were there, preventing people from getting any closer. Otherwise I'm sure more than a few would have gone right up to her.

Sadly, I've seen pics and articles describing the same problem in the Smoky Mountains National Park of groups of people getting too close to bears. Nowadays, even inexpensive cameras can be bought with zoom as a feature, so idiots really have no excuse for trying to get so close to a bear (especially mama bear with cubs) just to get a photo.

 

[MRG]

Sadly, I've seen pics and articles describing the same problem in the Smoky Mountains National Park of groups of people getting too close to bears. Nowadays, even inexpensive cameras can be bought with zoom as a feature, so idiots really have no excuse for trying to get so close to a bear (especially mama bear with cubs) just to get a photo.

Yeah but how do I get to pet Yogi and Boo boo?


I watched a woman in Yellowstone work her way, while taking photos, between a Cow Elk and her Calf. I thought I'd say something but I likely would have just ticked this genius off. At least she appeared to have no children to teach her creative behavior to.

 

[travelover]

I'd much rather have my 458 WinMag myself, but if I only my 44mag and a can of bear spray, I'll still take the 44.

I'd like to see a contest between a vegan and a gun owner to see who can most vigorously announce their convictions to the most people in the shortest amount of time.

 

[JoeWras]

Yosemite is full of death traps when water is high flowing. I could not believe all the people near swift moving water when I was there. One slip, and you are over a fall.

This is even after 4 people died in the previous two weeks before we were there. It was all very well publicized, but it still doesn't stop idiots.

Below Vernal Falls, we could look at the rapids with the knowledge that two people were in there, dead. You could not see them, they were trapped between rocks in the froth.

"Why don't they remove the bodies? This is crazy, they need to! They deserve it!"

No they don't. It is an unsafe task. Better to let them there essentially preserved in the cold water until it settles down in a few weeks, when they can safely extract.

Harsh reality, yet it still wasn't stopping the idiotic behavior we saw. That planking maneuver in front of Niagara a few posts up is nothing compared to the "extreme" behavior we were seeing above falls in Yosemite.

 

[ivinsfan]

We had a winter break in Springdale the gateway to Zion. It was the end of January and very quiet. Our hotel had a fantastic view of the Zion Cliffs. The day after we left a couple on their honeymoon based jumped off said cliffs.She died, he lived but I think he might have gotten a citation as it's obviously against the law in a National Park.

Oh my, that would be a nasty call to make to your new/no longer in-laws.

 

[MRG]

We had a winter break in Springdale the gateway to Zion. It was the end of January and very quiet. Our hotel had a fantastic view of the Zion Cliffs. The day after we left a couple on their honeymoon based jumped off said cliffs.She died, he lived but I think he might have gotten a citation as it's obviously against the law in a National Park.

Oh my, that would be a nasty call to make to your new/no longer in-laws.

Not a national park, stupidity knows no boundaries. Cousin has a place on one of the Finger lakes. A bunch of years ago they were going between cabins at dusk. A young couple who were meeting her parents for the first time was enjoying a night on the lake in a canoe, without the required marking lights. It ended horribly for them.

So sad, but they gambled and we're apparently somehow ignorant of the dangers.

 

[eytonxav]

According to a friend who has lived in Alaska for decades, bear spray does work.

I agree with your friend, bears have incredibly sensitive noses, and they can smell you miles away. This article suggests bear spray will increase you survival vs gun approach:
https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

 

[ivinsfan]

Not a national park, stupidity knows no boundaries. Cousin has a place on one of the Finger lakes. A bunch of years ago they were going between cabins at dusk. A young couple who were meeting her parents for the first time was enjoying a night on the lake in a canoe, without the required marking lights. It ended horribly for them.

So sad, but they gambled and we're apparently somehow ignorant of the dangers.

Somehow I find it hard to believe you could be in ignorance about the dangers of cliff base jumping

 

[ponyboy]

What do you expect...humans live in an artificial environment they created (cities.) Most rarely get out in the wilderness...though some would say national parks are not the real wilderness.

Media plays a big part in the fact that people think bears/bison/lions/moose/etc are cuddly gentle creatures. Look up anthropomorphic. Between cartoons and movies...people are really that dumb and they have no idea how ferocious wildlife have to be to survive.

There is no way to stop it. The only thing that may deter people is to slap them with enormous fines...$1,000 minimum maybe...maybe more. National parks are always complaining about funding. This could be a great opportunity. You will always have a steady flow of dumb people.

My wife and I have been to almost all the NP's...we rarely go during "touron" season. Its too frustrating watching people do whatever they want because they feel entitled or just dont care.

 

[pb4uski]

At least around here, our black bears will typically avoid you unless you end up between a mother and its cub or if they are really, really hungry. With a few exceptions, they are big scaredy cats.

Other bears are different... more aggressive.

 

[eytonxav]

At least around here, our black bears will typically avoid you unless you end up between a mother and its cub or if they are really, really hungry. With a few exceptions, they are big scaredy cats.

Other bears are different... more aggressive.

Not sure exactly where you are located, but you might have much more to worry about when encountering a moose, especially hitting one with car.

 

[pb4uski]

Absolutely. For many vehicles, the impact will cut under the legs and you have a 600-1,400+ pound mass of body hitting the windshield at high speed. Very dangerous.

 

[travelover]

At least around here, our black bears will typically avoid you unless you end up between a mother and its cub ............. .

Like this?

 

[Mulligan]

+1

Just got back from a week in St John, many hikes, snorkeling and kayaking... More than once on some of the hikes we said the trails would have been roped off and sterilized if they were in a national park in the continental US.

St. John....Great Island...Stay on the trails or you may run into one of those "Killer Donkeys", Ha! I agree with Is99... For the past recent decades we have been creating laws trying to eliminate Social Darwinism... And one can easily tell the population's gene pool is starting to see the ramifications from messing with "mother nature".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ls99]

In my Alaska days I carried a Ruger 44 magnum, w/hollowpoints. 5 in the cylinder, 4 for the bear, and if It is still coming the 5th was for me. It was infinitelly better choice than what the bear would mete out.

Most of the time also had a 444 Marlin lever action as an assistant.

 

[RobbieB]

Now that would be cool. And put some "teeth" in it too.

Sorry sir, but there's a thousand dollar fine for outside the barrier. Visa or Mastercard?

I don't have a grand. Go fish.

Have fun walking home (impounds vehicle)

 

[timo2]

Back in the 1980s I worked a season at Yellowstone National Park. Some good tourist stories, but my favorite is one from the Park Service civil engineer I worked for regarding Everglades NP, where he has previously worked. All the signs said don't take your dogs on the walkways, but he reported that people would constantly be complaining their little lap dog was eaten by an alligator. as a 30 year old, that struck me as amazing and humorous. Now that I'm older, It strikes me as dog abuse. The dog didn't choose to walk into an alligator place. That's why that story has stuck with me, I guess.

 

[Sunset]

I bought some bear spray for our trip to Smokey Mountains, I did see the odd other person with some which made me feel better.
Usually there were lots of other tourists around, so I figured one of the little kids would be a good snack rather than old stringy me.
We did see some bears, all at a very safe distance.
There are videos of the bear spray being used on bears and it really works well without any aiming.
It's about $25 for a big can, it was comforting to have.
Now its comforting in the bedside table.

 

[Alan]

There is no way to stop it. The only thing that may deter people is to slap them with enormous fines...$1,000 minimum maybe...maybe more. National parks are always complaining about funding. This could be a great opportunity. You will always have a steady flow of dumb people.

I agree.

In the Canadian Rockies last year we came across several trails with big signs warning of bears, and the signs said only groups of at least 4 people are allowed beyond this point and they have to be carrying bear spray. Penalty for non-compliance $15,000.