PG&E power outage in Northern California

[NW-Bound]

Some posters said the wind is calm in their area, but I think what they fear is failure of the high-voltage transmission lines which feed an entire region. The lines may go through areas with high wind that the locals do not experience. The towers are so old and the wires are sagging, hence the danger is real.

And on heavy-usage days when the old cables carry high currents and get heated and sagged, there's risk of them touching one another or the ground. Fire!

I remember that the devastating Camp Fire last year was caused by the so-called Caribou-Palermo line, which was built in 1921.

About 30% of PG&E towers and transmission lines are from the 1920s. Another 60% are from 1920-1950.

In a 2017 internal presentation, the large San Francisco-based utility estimated that its transmission towers were an average of 68 years old. Their mean life expectancy was 65 years. The oldest steel towers were 108 years old.

 

[Chuckanut]

PG&E power outage in Northern California

The Bear Republic needs something. Maybe this is an early Trick or Treat?

 

[NW-Bound]

The outage is limited to Northern California so far. But Southern California is also at risk.

From the Web:

Southern California Edison is also considering cutting power to customers in Los Angeles and San Bernardino counties, the utility said this week. As many as 139,000 homes could be left without power as Santa Ana winds reach speeds as high as 70 mph.

 

[HI Bill]

The areas covered by the outages are really vast, with varied terrain, and varied wind potential. I really can't imagine having >50 mph winds in all of those counties at the same time. PG&E is staging a practice protest over the lawsuits, IMHO, in a way that only hurts 800,000 customers. Then, they'll move on to the Bay Area or southern CA!

 

[NW-Bound]

The Bay area is being hit right now, although San Francisco was spared.

As I reported in another thread:

... I looked at the outage map, and while San Francisco is spared, across the Golden Gate, Sausalito is dark, along with some cities east of the bay, such as part of Berkeley and Oakland. The outage area spread further east to towns east of Sacramento, and north to encompass Napa Valley, and even along the coast to Eureka and Trininad. Coastal towns south of SF are also affected, spreading down to Santa Cruz...

The PG&E service area extends south as far as Lompoc, but stops short of the LA area. That is served by Southern California Edison, which may do a shutdown of its own, as I reported in the post above.

San Diego and its vicinity are served by San Diego Gas and Electric (SDG&E), another company yet.

 

[Another Reader]

PG&E stock closed at $10.98 a share today. After hours, it's down to $8.00. The market apparently thinks the stockholders will still have equity after all the lawsuits are settled.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Ill pray for those with power out for days. I saw some ladies on the news and it almost brought a tear to my eye. They couldnt find an open convenience store for coffee. True story, this was actually on the news.

Yes, life without coffee would be very, VERY difficult.

 

[cathy63]

SCE also did a shutdown due to high winds a couple of weeks ago when we were traveling through Mono county. We ended up in a hotel in Mammoth Lakes without electricity one night. People in town were worried that the outage would last for days, but it was only out for about 12 hours there and they did everything they could to get it back on as quickly as possible.

During the outage our cell phones worked and the Vons grocery store was open. Pretty much the entire town seemed to be shopping in the dark. People were overall very patient and understanding, because even if it's inconvenient and disappointing to be without power for a while, nobody wants to see nearly a hundred people killed and tens of thousands left homeless again this year.

 

[cathy63]

I don't get it... isn't part of their normal job to continually inspect the lines for potential dangers?

Yes, but a wind event can damage lines that were fine the day before. They need to look at them first so they don't cause a fire just by turning the power back on.

 

[cathy63]

Another acquaintance there has no power and a 5 year old that requires electric to run her medical equipment. Not sure how they're holding up.

Hospitals are open and the news channels are instructing people who depend on electricity for medical devices to go to the nearest one for assistance. There are also portable charging stations in a lot of places, so depending on what kind of equipment, they may be able to recharge there.

 

[TrvlBug]

I just learned that with my fiber internet/cell service, I have no service, either internet or LTE, when the power goes out . Knew there was a reason this dino kept her old fashioned POTS. With the cordless phone I can use the satellite handsets but not the base handset, at least until their battery dies.

I'm about a mile from the local shutdown area, but we have recently had multi-hour service interruptions.

 

[Music Lover]

Hope this level of empathy is remembered when the next hurricane hits the East coast or tornado destroys a swath of the MidWest.

There's a big difference between losing power due to neglect and/or incompetence as compared to natural disasters.

 

[swakyaby]

There is obviously some sort of management malpractice going on at PG&E. Plus, their taking this plan of action seems like PG&E being is bitter about being held responsible for previous fires.

I lived in the small town of Paradise, CA prior to its fiery demise and am currently in an area of northern/central California surrounded by PG&E utilities. Fortunately, my town has been spared the current blackouts because despite the windy conditions, my electric utilities are served by a municipal electric company, not PG&E. I feel great relief. Thinly disguised as dark humor, the level of nasty ridicule I witness here for the residents of California is extremely distasteful.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Retired power company employees said the company is not doing it’s job trimming trees. Legally they trim trees on private or public property within 50 ft of the line. The company is saving money by doing nothing.

 

[tb001]

SDG&E is shutting down services in some areas as well. I have mixed feelings about it. The fires have been devastating to California and caused significant loss of life and property. Going without power for a few days to prevent another devastating wild fire seems like a small price to pay. That said, as I understand it, the cause is the lack of maintenance on the power lines. So instead of properly maintaining the equipment, they’re cutting services we pay for. Doesn’t sit well.

 

[NW-Bound]

As mentioned earlier, the transmission lines in PG&E system are unbelievably antiquated, with some dated back to 1919. It's a disaster waiting to happen, and somehow it escapes attention.

For more EVs and to ban natural gas, somebody has to worry about beefing up the grid, in addition to securing the source of that newly demanded power.

A Tesla being supercharged can suck up 100kW, while my home being wired for 220V @ 200A is limited to 44kW. And that is way overkill, because people never have everything inside their home going at the same time.

I have the hourly record of my power consumption, and even in the hottest summer day here in the Southwest, with my 5-ton AC cranking in 120F outside temperature, my peak usage was about 6 kW, with my AC using 5 kW.

The point is that a Tesla being supercharged draws the equivalent of 20 homes in the Southwest in an 120F afternoon. Hopefully, this kind of power draw is anticipated and planned for, as more EVs are being used in California. Given the neglect of the transmission lines, I have my doubt that it gets adequate consideration.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

An aquaintance of mine lost her home and everything she owned last year in the paradise fire. She, her husband, and her dog left in their car and escaped but everything else burned to the ground. And she was lucky she got out.

These rolling outages are to protect against another tragedy and hopefully reduce the risk of similar losses.

the lack of empathy for millions who live under these threats is really disturbing to see here.

It is pretty hard for me to imagine making fun of anyone in a natural disaster area be it wildfire, severe blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, droughts, floods or record heat or cold waves. But as they say it takes all kinds.

 

[Beststash]

Considering the HELL that California has suffered for the last 5 years or so I think this nation suffers from what I call national Empathy Deficit Disorder, or EDD. EDD is a source of adversarial attitudes - including hatred - towards groups of people who differ in their beliefs, traditions, values or ways of life from your own. California seems to be the victim of this for quite a while now, especially here in Texas. From blaming the California "transplants" for the cultural shifts that are happening here (all the while embracing the $$ and technical expertise) to a long-running and ideological and economic battle between America’s most populous liberal and conservative states.

 

[JoeWras]

Hope this level of empathy is remembered when the next hurricane hits the East coast or tornado destroys a swath of the MidWest.

the lack of empathy for millions who live under these threats is really disturbing to see here.

There's a big difference between losing power due to neglect and/or incompetence as compared to natural disasters.

Empathy and neglect. These are topics on my heart. As I've shared on other threads here, my current retirement activity is working as a disaster relief volunteer. I went into it with a bit of a hard heart, but have come out with a much bigger, softer and fuller heart. I've met incredible people and have become a better person.

I was surprised at some of the push-back I got here from some hearing I was doing this. We're a pretty logical, cold, by-the-numbers community. I understand.

But those affected are people like us, although they may think 180 degrees from me in every way. In my work, we see neglect. It would be easy to blow them off and say "it is your fault." We don't. We put our judgement aside. We help. We repair. And we grow together. The organization I work with also requires the people impacted to partner with us (yes, they pay something) and to get a bit of counseling for the future of their home, and making them better prepared for the next disaster.

In that spirit, I feel for the people affected by PG&E's incompetence. I even would support some limited-short-term federal funding to help modernize. (That's the trap, it cannot be ongoing and must just be a short term boost.) And then PG&E and the state of California need some counseling moving forward to avoid causing suffering on their population. The state is all about EVs and stuff, well they need to support building a better foundation and need to understand how their regulators let this slip. That's future. For now, stop the suffering. And yes, power outages cause suffering.

 

[LRDave]

Considering the HELL that California has suffered for the last 5 years or so I think this nation suffers from what I call national Empathy Deficit Disorder, or EDD. EDD is a source of adversarial attitudes - including hatred - towards groups of people who differ in their beliefs, traditions, values or ways of life from your own. California seems to be the victim of this for quite a while now, especially here in Texas. From blaming the California "transplants" for the cultural shifts that are happening here (all the while embracing the $$ and technical expertise) to a long-running and ideological and economic battle between America’s most populous liberal and conservative states.

+1 Well said. I shall steal that TLA....

 

[JoeWras]

BTW, we travel a lot by car and in the east and midwest I see a surprising number of high transmission line replacement.

One that stuck out to me was last summer in Minnesota. There was what looked to me to be a perfectly good line being replaced, and not just supplemented, by a whole new set of towers that were much, much higher. DW was driving and I was watching the operation wondering why. Well, this was through a heavily forested area. Makes me think they were doing the right thing to avoid exactly the problem PG&E has.

 

[kgtest]

BTW, we travel a lot by car and in the east and midwest I see a surprising number of high transmission line replacement.

One that stuck out to me was last summer in Minnesota. There was what looked to me to be a perfectly good line being replaced, and not just supplemented, by a whole new set of towers that were much, much higher. DW was driving and I was watching the operation wondering why. Well, this was through a heavily forested area. Makes me think they were doing the right thing to avoid exactly the problem PG&E has.

I live in the "NorthWoods" of MN. We get super high wind gusts here as everyone would. But yes, you noted that we spend a considerable effort in MN maintaining the lines. Every year there are multiple trucks with multiple crews in my neighborhood cutting down the branches. I always joke that they have a more lucrative contract then the Trash Collectors. But all jokes aside, I would rather pay now then pay later with the loss of power.

 

[NW-Bound]

Following is an excerpt from an article in LA Time. Note the amount of money and level of personnel PG&E said it needed to do a good job.

I have no idea whether that is right or not, but if it costs that much just to clear vegetation under existing lines, then there is probably no hope of building new lines.

PG&E submitted a plan to regulators in February for pole repairs, assessment of its grid and other fixes, but by April acknowledged that it wasn’t going to meet its goals. It cited a variety of reasons, ranging from inclement winter to a lack of personnel. In some cases, only 25% of the work had been completed.

Elizaveta Malashenko, deputy executive director for safety policy at the PUC, said there is an “elevated level of concern” about PG&E because of the age and condition of much of its equipment and its inability to control trees and vegetation.

The utility recently told a federal judge it had completed only about 31% of the ambitious tree-trimming work it planned for 2019. The company said it had finished 760 miles out of the 2,455 miles of power lines that have vegetation around them. To finish the job, PG&E said it would need significantly more than the 4,500 workers it has dedicated to the work.

And that’s only for stopgap measures. In a court filing, PG&E said a clear-cutting of all trees and plants around its power lines would cost somewhere between $75 billion and $150 billion and require hiring 650,000 workers.

Complete article: https://www.latimes.com/california/...-california-power-outages-grid-climate-change.

 

[Music Lover]

An aquaintance of mine lost her home and everything she owned last year in the paradise fire. She, her husband, and her dog left in their car and escaped but everything else burned to the ground. And she was lucky she got out.

These rolling outages are to protect against another tragedy and hopefully reduce the risk of similar losses.

the lack of empathy for millions who live under these threats is really disturbing to see here.

No one is saying that people affected don't deserve sympathy...they're saying that it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Those who are laying blame are laying it against the power company, not affected individuals.

 

[ERD50]

It is pretty hard for me to imagine making fun of anyone in a natural disaster area be it wildfire, severe blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, droughts, floods or record heat or cold waves. But as they say it takes all kinds.

And to the other posts about 'empathy':

While I would never make fun of people in this position, let me just say that as a lifetime Midwesterner, I've put up with a lifetime of comments from people from warmer areas. Such "clever" comments in mid-winter as "Oh, we aren't getting any snow here!", or "Cold enough for you?", "Oh, poor babies, we're going to the beach today", "What's a 'snow-plow'?", "Every day is like paradise here". And yes, these comments have come in even during weather emergencies, when people were dying in weather related events.

And then the especially condescending: "Why would anyone live where you do?". As if we are a bunch of dumb hicks who never had a geography lesson, and don't know there are areas of the country that don't have cold winters. Gimme a break.

So while I maintain empathy for these people, excuse me if the edges have been worn down a bit by a lifetime of ignorant comments from some (quite a few actually, maybe even a majority of) people from these areas. And they expect that to all be forgotten when their little slice of heaven experiences some problems, and now it's all about them. We all make choices, we all need to live with the consequences, good and bad. Sorry.

(Now get off my lawn!)

-ERD50