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Old 02-24-2011, 06:37 PM   #41
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The continent is going to be awash in natural gas any time now.
Aren't we already awash in ng?

Ha
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:45 PM   #42
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Im in AZ - that rheem water heater looks interesting, wonder if there is a model that allows me to run my AC and the heat created is stored in the water heater. The rheem unit seems to use ac technoology but "exhausts" the cooler air like a waste product.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:16 PM   #43
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Aren't we already awash in ng?

Ha
You ain't seen nothin yet.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:19 PM   #44
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I prefer all electric but wanted something better than the standard water heater. At first I was going to get a tankless electric water heater but after researching it decided not to. They have very high electrical requirements and don't work that well.

What we did buy was a hybrid heat pump water eater. We bought the one made by GE. They are more expensive but we had an immediate drop in electric costs. We've been very pleased with ours.

Hot Water Heater, Heat Pump Water Heater, Water Heater Electric | GE Appliances
THAT's what I'm talkin' about!
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:33 PM   #45
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Im in AZ - that rheem water heater looks interesting, wonder if there is a model that allows me to run my AC and the heat created is stored in the water heater. The rheem unit seems to use ac technoology but "exhausts" the cooler air like a waste product.
I have the GE hybrid. Part of what it does is take the heat from the air so the air is cooler and that reduces the electricity usage on AC. When I go in the utility room where the water heater is the air is demonstrably cooler in that room from that feature.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:34 AM   #46
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Aren't we already awash in ng?

Ha










You ain't seen nothin yet.

Amen. Historically, (at least for the last 30 years) the price differential between a barrel of oil and an mcf of natural gas has hovered around a 6:1 ratio.

Right now, there is so much gas on the market, the price differential is a around 20:1. The shale gas resource plays have saturated the U.S. natural gas market so that - based on the BTU content- natural gas is a bargain compared to the price of oil.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:43 PM   #47
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Right now, there is so much gas on the market, the price differential is a around 20:1. The shale gas resource plays have saturated the U.S. natural gas market so that - based on the BTU content- natural gas is a bargain compared to the price of oil.
What was going on a few years back? I seem to recall some talk of NG shortages, and my NG bill going up. I was also thinking we had lots of the stuff.

NIGas was going to pilot residential fuel cells to convert NG to electricity and heat domestic water. I signed up to their mail list. IIRC, it seemed like a pretty marginal benefit, then NG prices rose, and I never heard any more.

There was thread a while back on the 'Bloom box" fuel cells. Those also seemed marginal economically if you fed them with NG (and maybe pretty good if you had cheap/free supply of bio-gas). I guess coal and nukes and hydro are cheap enough to keep electricity prices down?

-ERD50
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:06 PM   #48
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Psst. Beano...


I have no advice to give. My house is all electric.

Propane scares me and I have yet to convert my two fireplaces to gas logs. Just something about burning the real thing ...that I like.

My twin sister has a friend whose gas stove ...caught on fire...a month ago.
Like I said..it scares me but then again...I guess I'm a fraidy cat.
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:49 PM   #49
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At first I was going to get a tankless electric water heater but after researching it decided not to. They have very high electrical requirements and don't work that well.
The fact that they "don't work that well" may be subjective, but to say "they have very high electrical requirements" is, IMHO, incorrect. Of course, all-electric ones would indeed have very high electrical requirements.

My old propane tankless water heater worked great for me, and the only electrical connection was 120 V for the controls that couldn't have drawn more than an amp or two, and which plugged into the wall. One disadvantage was that the water took a bit of time to heat, maybe a minute, compared to the already-hot water you get from a stored water heater (not counting the travel time in the pipe).

One thing I really loved about the tankless was that I could dial the temperature as high as it would go, fill my brew kettle with it, and I was most of the way to heating it to the temperature required for brewing beer. When you need 12 gallons of 170 degree water, that was a real time-saver! (You other brewers here will know what I'm talking about.) Had to be sure to alert SWMBO, I mean, DW, not to use hot water until I dialed it back, of course.

Edit: d'oh! You said you looked at an _electric_ tankless. My bad!
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:27 AM   #50
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One disadvantage was that the water took a bit of time to heat, maybe a minute, compared to the already-hot water you get from a stored water heater (not counting the travel time in the pipe).
With a traditional tank type heater, the hot water diffuses into the pipes all the time, so you get hot water at the faucet faster. With the tankless, the water in the pipes remains cold, so the delay is mostly water travel time.
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:37 AM   #51
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Propane scares me and I have yet to convert my two fireplaces to gas logs. Just something about burning the real thing ...that I like.
I mentioned that we're low on firewood this year. Today I'm going to pick up some of these for testing, and if they are good as guys on the wood heating forum say, I'll use them to get through the year.

Home Fire Logs - About Our Logs

1 cord of pine produces 2142 lbs * 6407 BTU/lb = 13,723,794 BTUs 1 ton of HomeFire logs produces 2000 lbs * 8126 BTU/lb = 16,252,000 BTUs
Cost of 1 cord of pine: $300
Cost of 1 ton of Homefire Logs: $456


Pine: $21.86 per 1 million BTUs
HomeFire Logs: $ 28.05 per 1 million BTUs
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:29 PM   #52
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Al, link did not work. And, if they are almost $7 per million BTU more, why would you go with them?
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:23 AM   #53
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Here's a corrected link:

Home Fire Logs - About Our Logs

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if they are almost $7 per million BTU more, why would you go with them?
It's because I'm low on firewood right now, so if I were to buy real wood, it wouldn't have time to season properly, that is, it would not be dry enough. "Seasoned" wood would be more expensive, and still probably not dry enough to burn efficiently right away.

But there are some advantages that could make these worth the extra cost. Since they are so much more dense (see link), there is a lot less wood handling. 3.5 times less stacking and into-the-house bringing.

I got some test logs yesterday, and I lit three 30 minutes ago.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:19 AM   #54
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... One thing I really loved about the tankless was that I could dial the temperature as high as it would go, fill my brew kettle with it, and I was most of the way to heating it to the temperature required for brewing beer....
hmmm, how did the beer taste?
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