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Old 09-19-2007, 09:01 AM   #61
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Most in Texas means exactly what I said, just look at what % of the people actually vote in local, state and national elections. It is very low I said most and I did not say ALL.
Again, you are projecting your views on others. That is different from merely projecting your views. When I say project them on others, I mean you are assuming that others see things as you do, w/o evidence of such.

Since the 'most' you refer to now (conveniently) includes those people that didn't vote, then yes, you are projecting your views on others. How can we know, and why should we think that the non-voters had a different breakdown in preference from the voters. And if they did, I guess they need to get out there and vote! So you say they 'knew' GW was a dufus, but didn't feel strongly enough to go vote? That speaks volumes.

And I never said 'ALL' either, so don't throw that red-herring in there.

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It is about time that the rest of the U.S and the world are finally realizing what most of us in Texas already knew which is that Old George W is an incompetent DUFUS.
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As for him being elected as Governor for two terms I guess the good people of Texas were BS'ed just like in the case where America ate up his lies, half truths, cooked intel, false intel, etc..., etc.... -
Which is it WAG ?? - Texans KNEW he was a DUFUS, or they were B.S.'d by him??

Seem you want to have it any which way suits you at the time. That is what I call BS.


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Old 09-19-2007, 09:13 AM   #62
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It's getting kinda ugly now guys.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:25 AM   #63
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It's getting kinda ugly now guys.
I would have never guessed a political thread like this would get ugly.

This is why we need an "ignore thread" feature.

I don't want to keep seeing the same useless thread heading every time I log in. It's like forum SPAM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:31 AM   #64
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Again, you are projecting your views on others. That is different from merely projecting your views. When I say project them on others, I mean you are assuming that others see things as you do, w/o evidence of such.

Since the 'most' you refer to now (conveniently) includes those people that didn't vote, then yes, you are projecting your views on others. How can we know, and why should we think that the non-voters had a different breakdown in preference from the voters. And if they did, I guess they need to get out there and vote! So you say they 'knew' GW was a dufus, but didn't feel strongly enough to go vote? That speaks volumes.

And I never said 'ALL' either, so don't throw that red-herring in there.



Which is it WAG ?? - Texans KNEW he was a DUFUS, or they were B.S.'d by him??

Seem you want to have it any which way suits you at the time. That is what I call BS.


-ERD50
First of all I will not get into a word game with you or anyone else in these forums. We are all FREE to express or project any views or opinions that we choose to and as such I will exercise my right to do so. If you do not like my posts or what I have to say then DO NOT READ THEM.

I do not remember anyone appointing you a subject matter expect on what is BS and what is not BS. Just like beauty, BS is in the eye of the beholder and as such one should not be casting stones when one may be in the outhouse.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:50 AM   #65
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ladelfina, like you are doing, I lived abroad for two decades and it was clear that most Europeans thought Ronnie was a nut case. Yet his actions helped Europe immensely. They just never admitted it, not even now.

Fast forward and Bush has given the world a democracy in the Middle East, it will rank with the fall of the Berlin Wall in changing our world.

Hillary will do even greater things, like changing our failed health system into a more social medicine model. She will have more impact that the last 4 presidents combined. The world will love Hillary.

------------------
Wags, while I would be less bombastic, I do agree with your comment because as a former protector of troops worldwide, I also claim:
"because my only concern is for the well being of OUR TROOPS, OUR FALLEN TROOPS, OUR VETERANS, THEIR FAMILIES AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE."

What everyone is missing is a historical perspective on the Iraq. The British appeased Hitler with the Munich Agreement and the world suffered WWII. The British or dare I say, "Churchill's creation of the artificial monarchy of Iraq after World War One, forced together unfriendly peoples, Sunni Muslim Kurds and Arabs, and Iranian Shiite Muslims under a single ruler."

So don't put all the blame on Bush, he had helpers.

See this article and barf. How Britain invented terror bombing in 1920s Iraq | International Communist Current

I'm voting for Hillary.

BTW, I was very civil in what I said above.

But I may soon expose the very well hidden fact that plans were drawn up and preparations made for the US to form a new country. Guess what it was to be called.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:20 AM   #66
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Dubya-stan?

I look at politics the way I'm attempting to look at life. For instance, if I'm stuck in traffic, and dufii are making things worse with their idiotic creative driving maneuvers, apparently the only person upset about it is me. A better ploy is to turn up the radio, and leave lots of extra space around me, to help avoid the multi-car collision about to occur...

I hold my nose, vote, then get on with life...

This is not to say I don't give politicians some well-deserved $hit from time to time...
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:32 AM   #67
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Dubya-stan . Damn HFWR, I just ripped some kidney staples loose. Careful.

That is damned close.

I'll PM you some evidence and you will be shocked. I was and having worked for the spooks, it is not over yet.

I'm out the door for a bit to Chelsea so back with proof in a bit.

BTW, all kinds of gov't infrastructure was in work. All paid for by the taxpayers of the USA.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:39 AM   #68
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I'll PM you some evidence and you will be shocked. I was and having worked for the spooks, it is not over yet.

I'm out the door for a bit to Chelsea so back with proof in a bit.
This all sounds mysterious. Care to share with all of us?
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:46 AM   #69
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Chelsea Clinton?

I must say OAP you are one interesting dude to be on the side of W and HRC simultaneously! Are you pulling one leg, the other, or both!?

I agree people have a dim understanding of Iraq, but neither was Churchill the first to to enforce Empire there.. Turks, Iranians and Mongols all tried their hand at it with varying success. Our establishment of the largest most expensive embassy anywhere, along with permanent bases (this is happening) just means we're expecting to be the next Empire in line. I think it is fairly obvious by now this was the plan all along. Cheney was meeting to divide up Iraq's oil fields in March 2001, two months after entering office and 6 months before 9/11.

Judicial Watch

The sun will at some point set on us as it did with the British, French, Spanish, Russians, Ottomans, Persians, Romans, etc. They did not find it easy or cost-effective to impose themselves indefinitely on remote and largely unwilling populations; nor will we. The usual suspects will make out like bandits while many, mostly innocent, will continue to die. It is ever thus.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:37 PM   #70
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Self interest? How do you figure that, given that I am one of the few here who had no flooding and did not lose my job?

Personally I think that anybody who had the slightest clue about what went on here would say exactly what I said, for the same reasons, no matter where they live. It breaks my heart.

The fact that you could make such a statement is a testament to the great quantities of misinformation floating about, in my opinion. I don't think you are an uncaring individual.
I'm confused, how did Bush "fail" the folks in New Orleans? The mayor of New Orleans and the governor are two of the worst political hacks I have ever seen...............
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:43 PM   #71
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I'm confused, how did Bush "fail" the folks in New Orleans? The mayor of New Orleans and the governor are two of the worst political hacks I have ever seen...............
Followed closely by the hacks at FEMA...
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:56 PM   #72
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Fast forward and Bush has given the world a democracy in the Middle East, it will rank with the fall of the Berlin Wall in changing our world.
What are you smoking? Where is there a democracy in the middle east? Closest thing to it is Israel, but it can't qualify due to large numbers of oppressed and disenfranchised Palestinians. What Bush gave us in Iraq was 1) chaos 2) unbelievable recruitment opportunities for Al Quada 3) 50,000+ new young boys named 'Osama'

Sadly, you are right--it may rank with the Berlin wall in changing our world. Probably won't be a good change, though.

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Hillary will do even greater things, like changing our failed health system into a more social medicine model. She will have more impact that the last 4 presidents combined. The world will love Hillary.
Hillary has been for the Iraq war nearly from the beginning. She showed no judgment whatsoever. Now she won't even admit that her vote was a mistake, but rather blames it on those nasty Republicans for misleading her. Won't even take responsibility for her own actions. Not presidential material, IMO.
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Old 09-19-2007, 03:13 PM   #73
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Chelsea Clinton?

I must say OAP you are one interesting dude to be on the side of W and HRC simultaneously! Are you pulling one leg, the other, or both!?

I agree people have a dim understanding of Iraq, but neither was Churchill the first to to enforce Empire there.. Turks, Iranians and Mongols all tried their hand at it with varying success. Our establishment of the largest most expensive embassy anywhere, along with permanent bases (this is happening) just means we're expecting to be the next Empire in line. I think it is fairly obvious by now this was the plan all along. Cheney was meeting to divide up Iraq's oil fields in March 2001, two months after entering office and 6 months before 9/11.

Judicial Watch

The sun will at some point set on us as it did with the British, French, Spanish, Russians, Ottomans, Persians, Romans, etc. They did not find it easy or cost-effective to impose themselves indefinitely on remote and largely unwilling populations; nor will we. The usual suspects will make out like bandits while many, mostly innocent, will continue to die. It is ever thus.

ladelfina,
the Chelsea Clinton thing caused me to pass a kidney stone, thru my nostrils. OW!

Gosh, I'm pretty sure I've posted before that when Bush decided to invade Iraq that I ( and about 400 others in a huge "spook" operations room ) nearly fainted. All of us collectively shook our heads, NO, NO, NO.

I support Bush on nothing he's done except the tax reduction, otherwise, he mad a LOT of bad decisions. With supposedly very intelligent and experienced people around him.

Alway remember that one of this board's heroes Colin Powell was part and parcel to that decision. I only recall him saying otherwise much later and when convenience served him to do so.

Otherwise, I'm very much centre-left. HRC in 2003 would have been a good slogan.
-------------------
TexasGal, I'll PM you the same info. It's got evidence. I also have some former coworker trying to get additional data.

It's kinda scary.
------------------

Bosco,
you asked where is democracy in the Middle East, in Iraq, I'll admit it kinda chaotic at the moment but a quick look at the early years of our wonderful system reveals, fist fights, threats, etc. Maybe that still exists here. But Iraqis voted, a government representative of all people was formed and it is called a democracy.

When Ronald Reagan pushed Star Wars technology into production, my European colleagues saw the American media and far left types scream, "we will all die in a nuclear holocaust when the Russians attack." Living in Europe at the time was tough because our government was considered cowboys. Everyone and I'd bet you too, considered him a fool. He was wily smart and above petty media and leftist attacks.

Well, the Soviet Union crumbled under the economic impact and the entrapped Ukrainians, Estonians, Latvians, Georgians, and the x-stans all gradually got independence.

The Berlin Wall did not fall by itself, a cowboy in the White House brought that down.

So it will be recorded in history for George Bush. No matter how much I dislike his policies and his approach, it will be.

As for Hillary's vote for the Iraq war, she had information that there were weapons of mass destruction.

And lest you ignore it. Bill Clinton bombed the crap out of Baghdad.

People ( like myself ) who were in jobs requiring us to know the actual facts about Iraq, are very much satisfied that something had to be done. Clinton tried and failed but Hillary would have had very clear insight into the need for Hussein's removal.

She voted the tough vote.

Iraq war was wrong. But that's hindsight. Makes us all brilliant, except me.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:23 PM   #74
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Maybe you should have listened to your Northern cousins.

Canada said we will have nothing to do with this Iraq charade. We KNEW it was a con.

Tony Blair has since been proven to be Bush's poodle and put out to pasture.

We knew Bush was an idiot from the day he stole the 2000 election.

Canadians are serving and dying in Afghanistan where the real fight is.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:30 PM   #75
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:45 PM   #76
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Are you SURE you meant to write "few would say no" to Bush as CEO of their company

Urk.
Arbusto, Harken, Caterair

Bush and the Billionaire: How Insider Capitalism Benefited W.
The president as businessman : The fancy financial footwork of George W. Bush - International Herald Tribune
Washingtonpost.com: Bush Name Helps Fuel Oil Dealings

I think I'd hire Ken Lay (RIP) sooner than George W.
From what I can tell, W has never done one successful independent thing.
Ever.
Opps. See here is a situation where I need to edit my post. Thanks for letting me know. I meant "Few would say YES".
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:02 PM   #77
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Look at it like this. Let's say GW was the CEO of a corporation that you invested your life savings in... would you want him at the the helm (think analogy) based on his performance.

I suspect that if most people could remove their political biases, few would say NO.
he'd a done been fired...if any board of directors saw his performance...he did in fact tank a corporation...
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:29 PM   #78
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ladelfina,


As for Hillary's vote for the Iraq war, she had information that there were weapons of mass destruction.

And lest you ignore it. Bill Clinton bombed the crap out of Baghdad.

People ( like myself ) who were in jobs requiring us to know the actual facts about Iraq, are very much satisfied that something had to be done. Clinton tried and failed but Hillary would have had very clear insight into the need for Hussein's removal.

She voted the tough vote.

Iraq war was wrong. But that's hindsight. Makes us all brilliant, except me.
First, Hillary did NOT have information that there were weapons of mass destruction because there were not. She CHOSE to believe lies rather than look at the situation critically because it was expedient for her to do so. She voted the EASY vote, not the tough vote.

Second, there's plenty of stuff that Bill Clinton did that is very disturbing--another good reason NOT to vote for Hillary.

Third, anyone who had been following the efforts of the UN inspection teams, and listened to people who had been on the ground like Scott Ritter knew full well that the supposed weapons were most likely a fabrication. Furthermore, there was never any good reason given why not to let the inspection teams continue their work. Except maybe that it's sexier to attack and bomb.

Fourth, you should know that just because you keep trying to imply that somehow you are in the inner circle or in the know, doesn't give your OPINIONS any more weight in my book. If the "intelligence" community is so intelligent, then why didn't they use their intelligence to make sure the correct information got to people in an unambiguous format?

There are plenty of us who were opposed to the war from the very beginning. It didn't take brilliance. Just some critical thinking and healthy mistrust of the obvious BS coming from the administration.

IMO, Colin Powell should hang his head in shame and never try to return to public life. He allowed his good name and reputation to be used for immoral purposes. I think he was duped, but for that I blame him. He should have been smart enough to see how he was being used.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:30 PM   #79
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We knew Bush was an idiot from the day he stole the 2000 election.
So, what does that say about the people he supposedly 'stole' it from?

I would never, in any way, condone vote fraud. But your story says that the Dems were unable to protect voting boxes right out there in public on our own soil.

How they gonna protect us from bad guys? You know, the bad guys that want to hurt us don't play fair either*.

-ERD50

* By 'either', don't assume I am admitting to vote fraud by anyone, I am just following your story. Though I suspect both sides are likely guilty.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:48 PM   #80
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bosco,
I am very frustrated with us being in Iraq, but it was not just Bush, and I notice you missed my comment that Bill Clinton was just as convinced as Bush that there were weapons of mass destruction. He bombed first and based on even more dubious info. Try UN info, info from inspectors from countries like Surinam, a powerhouse of nuclear scientists.
CNN - Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance - December 16, 1998

The comment on the intelligence communities reaction missed it's mark. It was a subtle way of saying, "get the collective heads out of the orifice and realize that intelligence operatives and agencies can only report factual evidence. They have no power to make sure that is what is presented to the public. Much like a General who may have strong advice that is ignored for political expediency."

Sorry for not making that more clear.
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