Stop Tipping

[gerntz]

It's for suckers.

So are tipping or not threads.

 

[ls99]

A timely subject.

Two customers are at the same table, one orders a burger, the other lobster tail.
The effort required by the server is equal, (s)he bring the plates with the food stuff on them from the kitchen, plunks it on the table.
Oh and waits to ask how things are until the customer's mouth is full.

The question then: Why is the server getting a tip on the price of the goods?

The extra effort was in the preparation of the goods, not in the transporting of.

 

[steelyman]

When I got the paper delivered I used to give a $25 supermarket gift card as a tip to the carrier (as well as a bunch of others). Just a suggestion.

That’s a good idea (both method and amount). I was a bit stuck about how much to give. The annual subscription is about $400 which is worth it to me as it includes hard copy, and three digital editions, one for me and two others that I’ve given away.

The “timely” sections of the paper, given our current situation, are obsolete by the time it hits the driveway but other sections are something I enjoy browsing through the week.

 

[Montecfo]

The idea that a waitress at a $15/plate diner gets paid less than one at a $50/plate place is highly flawed. Why should they get paid ~1/3 of the $$ for the same job?

I'm intrigued that you think wait staff in cheap restaurants are doing the same job as those in expensive ones.

 

[Montecfo]

Well, my personal experience in highschool was that my hourly wage dropped to just a couple bucks when I moved to wait staff, but I easily cleared over $10/hr working the floor. This was decades ago in the Midwest. Dear sister made twice that.

Estimate it this way: a busy waiter has ten tables/hr. If they tip an average of $2, that’s $20/hr. And how many of us leave just $2 tips? A hustling waiter can easily clear a couple hundred per busy shift.
The statement waiters make less than our first summer job is dubious, unless most of made $20/hr plus at those jobs.

THIS

 

[aaronc879]

I'm intrigued that you think wait staff in cheap restaurants are doing the same job as those in expensive ones.

The staff in cheaper restaurants probably have more tables to serve so they actually work harder. I get the impression you think differently?

 

[Aerides]

Estimate it this way: a busy waiter has ten tables/hr. If they tip an average of $2, that’s $20/hr. And how many of us leave just $2 tips? A hustling waiter can easily clear a couple hundred per busy shift.

Sure, the money can be good in prime time - 7-9pm say, on a good night. But most waiters are working a full shift. Arriving between 3-4 pm and not leaving till between 10 and 12am. Those first couple of hours can be slow. Setting tables, polishing silverware, being briefed on the specials, serving a few late lunches or the group leaving work early and nursing drinks and sharing appetizers. Nowhere near 10 tables full. Same thing after 9pm when (most) restaurants start to empty out. Now they've got to reset, hope to get sent home early if they've done well enough, or hope for one more table.

And hey, no one is going to change their behavior based on this thread, but the idea that waiters are making great money - in general - is not the whole story.

 

[txtig]

I usually tip around 20% when I eat out (including alcohol and tax). But, quality of service and total price of the meal will also impact the tip. On a $200 meal, it will be closer to 15%. A $20 meal will probably get 25%. Most of my meals are probably between $50 and $100 so 20% seems about right for these.

My $13 haircuts get a $5 tip.

We’ve had 5 or 6 home remodeling projects done this year by contractors, ranging from thousands of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. I’ve tipped the construction crews anywhere from $80 to $300. Not much on a percentage basis, but I know it was appreciated by the crews. Not everyone tips these folks.

 

[youbet]

The staff in cheaper restaurants probably have more tables to serve so they actually work harder. I get the impression you think differently?

The pay difference isn't due to the amount of work, it's the quality and skills involved in the work. Staff at high tier restaurants get those high tip jobs by being skilled at and willing to do the things that please high tier customers and management.

High tier eateries struggle to attract and retain wait staff they feel gives them a competitive edge and helps to attract customers. That would seem to indicate that the wait staff is not overpaid (at least those performing to expectation) since, by definition, supply and demand reach equilibrium when the pay is adequate to attract the desired supply.

Again, it has little to do with who is "working harder."

 

[tmm99]

A timely subject.

Two customers are at the same table, one orders a burger, the other lobster tail.
The effort required by the server is equal, (s)he bring the plates with the food stuff on them from the kitchen, plunks it on the table.
Oh and waits to ask how things are until the customer's mouth is full.

The question then: Why is the server getting a tip on the price of the goods?

The extra effort was in the preparation of the goods, not in the transporting of.

My sentiment, exactly! I think this whole tipping thing is seriously flawed.

 

[youbet]

And hey, no one is going to change their behavior based on this thread, but the idea that waiters are making great money - in general - is not the whole story.

Restaurants in our area seem to all (just an anecdotal observation) have "wait staff wanted" signs up. That's usually an act of desperation since the sign indicates to potential customers that service may be suffering due to under staffing.

It really seems that if these jobs were as easy and high paying as many are describing, folks from other employment areas would be flocking in to fill the vacancies. You know, move from the $20k counter position at Mickey Dee's to the $60k position at Jacque's. But apparently today's pay levels are not adequate to attract appropriately skilled folks in.

I wonder what Penny would say about the tips she gets waitressing at the Cheese Factory?

 

[tmm99]

I'm intrigued that you think wait staff in cheap restaurants are doing the same job as those in expensive ones.

I've done both ends of the spectrum, and working in a cheap restaurant was a whole lot more work with much, much less money. I happened to be the same person in this restaurant as well as in more expensive ones, serving food that was on the menu, refilling coffee, drinks, making recommendations for appetizers, dessert, specials, etc. I didn't do it long (maybe 2 months during summer?) because the money was so bad and the hours were too long (6 AM to 2 PM). I went back to dinner waitressing at a higher-end restaurant, making so much more money.

Tipping is flawed.

I might have looked awful working in a cheap restaurant, wearing my ugly uniform, and probably sweating from walking around the floor so much refilling coffee cups for free, while in more upscale restaurants, I looked more poised, had time to talk to entertain customers more, but I think the ambiance of the more-upscale restaurants helped me even more. People were willing to spend more money on ambiance, being basked in something luxurious and feeling pampered, and I happened to be part of that kind of package, and I benefitted from it.

 

[Montecfo]

I do see things differently, yes. The jobs are just not comparable. And the hardest jobs do not necessarily pay more than easier ones. It is more a function of skills required versus how scarce those skills are.

Other thread topics:

Tipping is based on tradition and personal service. It is not based on how much people are paid in wages As noted in this thread, customers can't be expected to know pay levels and should not sweat that.

Tip jars are just attempts to game the system. You can put one on your own desk and seed it with money if you want. I do not blame anyone for wanting tips. This is America.

Tipping is not designed to "equalize" pay between different jobs.

When someone hands you a piece of pie, or a cup of takeout coffee you do not owe a tip IMHO. I feel the same about a takeout food order, generally.

I do not tip the mailman unless there is something unusual they are doing for me personally. I do tip the trash guys because I put out limbs and yard waste that is beyond the call. They always take it with a smile.

I also waited tables in college and the idea that it is a low-pay job is not true in my experience. I did it because it was high pay and flexible hours. And some people did not make a lot of money, but those folks were less well suited to the job or less interested. Like a lot of things, success breeds more. The most productive wait people got the best shifts and busiest times. They made more money for the restaurant too.

Most tips are taxable these days. Stores know how much business you did, credit card or not.

Kitchen and "backstage" help gets tipped also most places. But those closest to the customer get the most, and appropriately so I think.

That's a lot about tipping. Your experience may be different.

 

[youbet]

I've done both ends of the spectrum, and working in a cheap restaurant was a whole lot more work with much, much less money. I happened to be the same person in this restaurant as well as in more expensive ones, serving food that was on the menu, refilling coffee, drinks, making recommendations for appetizers, dessert, specials, etc. I didn't do it long (maybe 2 months during summer?) because the money was so bad and the hours were too long (6 AM to 2 PM). I went back to dinner waitressing at a higher-end restaurant, making so much more money.

Tipping is flawed.

I might have looked awful working in a cheap restaurant, wearing my ugly uniform, and probably sweating from walking around the floor so much refilling coffee cups for free, while in more upscale restaurants, I looked more poised, had time to talk to entertain customers more, but I think the ambiance of the more-upscale restaurants helped me even more. People were willing to spend more money on ambiance, being basked in something luxurious and feeling pampered, and I happened to be part of that kind of package, and I benefitted from it.

Are you saying that any of the staff working at the low tier restaurant with you could have done the job at the high tier restaurant as well as you? That is, there was no skill, talent or effort difference, you just got lucky and got the higher paying job?

Why did the staff at the low tier restaurant not take higher paying jobs at the high tier restaurant as you did? Were you the better server or just the lucky server?

 

[MRG]

Imagine if we could tip educators?

Health care workers? Tip your doctor, ambulance driver, EMT, pharmacist.......? Obviously no one would ever tip LE? [emoji111]

Both DW and I used to see the same massage therapist? We both tipped her the same at our independent appointments. Was that the correct thing to do?

 

[Chuckanut]

If you don't believe tipping is out of hand take a look at this from the nationally famous cheapskate - Clark Howard.

https://clark.com/family-lifestyle/tipping-guide-holiday-2017-gifts/

This is just the miscellaneious list:

• Babysitter: Cash equivalent to one night’s pay or a gift card
• Nanny: One week’s (to one month’s) pay and a gift from your child
• Hair Stylist, Manicurist, Personal Trainer and Massage Therapist: Tip or gift card equivalent to
  one visit
• Shampoo Attendant: $5 to $10
• Pet Groomer: Cash gift equivalent to one service
• Dog Walker: Cash gift equivalent to one day (or one week’s) service
• Dance Instructor, Tutor, Coach: $25 or gift card to favorite coffee shop
• Food Delivery: 18% to 20%

 

[tmm99]

Are you saying that any of the staff working at the low tier restaurant with you could have done the job at the high tier restaurant as well as you? That is, there was no skill, talent or effort difference, you just got lucky and got the higher paying job?

Why did the staff at the low tier restaurant not take higher paying jobs at the high tier restaurant as you did? Were you the better server or just the lucky server?

As for the service, the people I worked with at the cheap restaurant were very professional. These were people who had been working as a server for a long time, so they were definitely skilled and efficient. I don't know if I ever asked them why they didn't look for something else that was more profitable, but they could have done well at any restaurants, except that they looked ancient to me (I was in my 20's, so anybody over 40 looked ancient...) One server there told me she could only work during the day. Another one told me she used to teach home economics in high school.

I personally wouldn't consider working as a waitress making so little money, it was like working minimum wage (although it might have been a little better than that.) I chose to waitress to make quick money. It's like I found a loophole in the system and exploited it. Sometimes I received a $20 tip on a $50 dinner. The highest tip was a guy ate $20 worth of food and left a $20 bill as a tip. And I only had to declare $8 as gratuity (I think the calculation was $50 x 8% as a gratuity for all the meals served. I'm not sure how things are calculated now. This was when I was in my 20's.) Those big tippers were always men for whatever reason (Just so you know, I was average looking in my 20's. I don't think it was a man-woman thing at all.). Not one woman gave me an outrageous tip. I don't know why I'm talking about this here now... I'm not trying to make any point. Just remembering.

 

[tmm99]

I live in Canada and asked around... And I found out none of my friends tip their massage therapists here! It's customary to tip massage therapists in the US, but for some reason, not here. Many insurance companies here cover massage therapies the same way they cover chiropractor and acupuncture visits, and that may be why? I don't know. You never tip chiropractors or acupuncturists, right? Just tidbits of info. I personally thought it was weird we tip people who already make a lot of money ($89 for 55 minutes of massage - I understand they have to pay for the space they rent, etc, but still). Hair stylists too.

 

[jollystomper]

I do not have the personality suited for serving in a restaurant. When I volunteered at the food/snack stand at our kids sports events, I did it with gritted teeth and was happy to give customers the "Jollystomper Death Stare" over the shenanigans they tried to pull . So one reason I tip in restaurants because I see serving as a thankless job, even if they are doing well.

But, tip jars for counter service, tips when I pick up takeout... sorry, not going to do it unless there is some extraordinary circumstance. Preparing food and handing it to me while I wait at the counter seems like the minimum job description.

I am noticing that in almost every takeout food place where you pay with a credit card, the slip has a line for tips. Maybe it is a "standard" form, or maybe it is a way for the store owners to "guilt" some people into giving a tip. I do not know. I wonder when they will get to the grocery stores...

 

[sengsational]

[ am noticing that in almost every takeout food place where you pay with a credit card, the slip has a line for tips. Maybe it is a "standard" form, or maybe it is a way for the store owners to "guilt" some people into giving a tip. I do not know. I wonder when they will get to the grocery stores...

All it takes is a tiny percent falling for it... just like email spam.

 

[Milton]

In my area servers make the same minimum wage as everybody else. No special minimum wage for them. But, I do tip 15-20% anyway. I figure it's part of the bill.

But that's just it: it is not part of the bill.

A restaurant's quoted prices are both mandatory and set by the owner (who has a legal responsibility to pay his/her staff). Tipping is discretionary and optional.

 

[Milton]

If you don't believe tipping is out of hand take a look at this from the nationally famous cheapskate - Clark Howard.

No idea who Clark Howard is, but that list is hilarious; thanks for sharing it!

Lots of credulous people out there, apparently.

The original Diane Gottsman listicle provides expanded "guidance", including the following (emphasis added).

Trash Collector – Check local regulations for public service employees. If there are no restrictions, $10-$25 per person. Give it to them personally or drop off the gift at their corporate office.

So, not only is she suggesting paying extra cash to (well-pensioned) municipal employees who provide a few seconds of impersonal service once every week or so, but one is supposed to hang around until whenever they show up, or alternatively make a special trip to their office at city hall.

 

[Sunset]

As for the service, the people I worked with at the cheap restaurant were very professional. These were people who had been working as a server for a long time, so they were definitely skilled and efficient. I don't know if I ever asked them why they didn't look for something else that was more profitable, but they could have done well at any restaurants, except that they looked ancient to me (I was in my 20's, so anybody over 40 looked ancient...) One server there told me she could only work during the day. Another one told me she used to teach home economics in high school.

I personally wouldn't consider working as a waitress making so little money, it was like working minimum wage (although it might have been a little better than that.) I chose to waitress to make quick money. It's like I found a loophole in the system and exploited it. Sometimes I received a $20 tip on a $50 dinner. The highest tip was a guy ate $20 worth of food and left a $20 bill as a tip. And I only had to declare $8 as gratuity (I think the calculation was $50 x 8% as a gratuity for all the meals served. I'm not sure how things are calculated now. This was when I was in my 20's.) Those big tippers were always men for whatever reason (Just so you know, I was average looking in my 20's. I don't think it was a man-woman thing at all.). Not one woman gave me an outrageous tip. I don't know why I'm talking about this here now... I'm not trying to make any point. Just remembering.

Sorry good-looking, but it was a man-woman thing, and you benefited from it, so that is great for you.

Here is the opposite side of a restaurant experience;

My work group of 6 guys went to a TGIF restaurant years ago, and I was a loyalty member which could be used to earn credits by the loyalty number or my associated phone number. The others didn't know this.

So we all sit down, the 20ish yr old waitress comes up bring water for us, and leaves.
A couple of the guys play big man and make comments about the fairly average waitress in a sexual innuendo way. (I know what I'd like to order, etc)

So she comes back to take our orders and at my turn, I tell her my phone number is xxxxxx , which she writes down, and because the others were talking, I ask if she got it. and she reply's Yes she got it.
The table stop talking and then I order, and she leaves.
All the other guys look at me, wondering how did I just do that (girl takes my number), as they only have seen it in the movies.

I let them stew for a minute before I burst their fantasy bubble..

 

[Ferd]

Tipping is very dependent on what country you are in. In Europe tipping is almost unheard of because all employees are getting a decent wage. In the US wait staff in most states get very little in wages and are almost entirely dependent on tipping. I guess Canada is a lot closer to Europe in their pay scales. I'll remember that next time I'm in Canada although to tell the truth, I can't remember the last time I had dinner in a Canadian restaurant despite summering there every year of my life.


One thing that's affecting American wait staff is the prevalence of credit cards. Waiters can't hide their income from the IRS if you put it on a credit card. So consider perhaps paying the bill on the CC but leaving a cash tip.

 

[Archman]

Another provocative thread title. This is about tipping in Canada, it doesn’t apply to the US.

US Census data shows that most restaurant servers and wait staff make less than the US median wage. If you don’t want to tip in a reastaurant then don’t eat out.

If I don't want to tip in a restaurant, I don't.