Stupid to Plan a Library?

[GregLee]

When I was young, my parents would drop me off at our municipal library, and I would head down to the basement and wander the aisles for a half day, browsing old books. At college, I always contrived to get a professor to sign me a stack pass, and I could continue my browsing in a much larger library. That was something. But times change --- now I have a similar pleasant time browsing the web, and as more resources go on line, it's getting more interesting by the year. The money that could go to providing physical facilities for housing books would be better spent improving web access, in my opinion.

 

[W2R]

Sounds like someone screwed up that library's design, less for appearance and more for safety and maintenance from the article:

More important than the look of the building, the protruding stone veneer on the building’s interior could pose safety concerns, DAGS and library officials agreed, and on the exterior it would create “serious maintenance challenges,” such as requiring more frequent cleaning and making it more expensive to paint the building.

Lau and Fujio said that after examining a number of options, “the difficult decision” was made to remove the veneer, fill in the indentations, then plaster it all over with cement, leaving a smoother plaster finish.

Incredible - - they are replacing the rocks with cement.

I wonder how long that $295K would last if it was spent on hiring a painter with a paint sprayer once a year, to paint those rocks (that they claim are too hard to paint).

 

[GregLee]

Incredible - - they are replacing the rocks with cement.

But they weren't real rocks, I gather (I haven't seen it). The story refers to a "plaster and random cast stone veneer".

 

[M Paquette]

But they weren't real rocks, I gather (I haven't seen it). The story refers to a "plaster and random cast stone veneer".

Maybe they were hoping for a more traditional structure, such as cinderbock and a tarpaper roof.

(Just like our old library. The one with all the roof leaks over the stacks...)

 

[W2R]

Wonderful library memories from my childhood - - -

(1) When I was a little kid, my mother would take us to the public library once a week since our elementary school had no library. There we could take out 1-2 books each and I thought it was great fun. We had to read them clear through and give her a satisfactory verbal report in order to get another book the next week.

(2) When I was 13, every Tuesday and Thursday she had my older brother take me to the university library where we were both to study from 7-10 PM. He would take off with his girlfriend as soon as we got there, but I never told on him because I loved that library. After I finished my homework, I would find interesting books to skim through and I looked forward to getting out of the house like that.

But you know, the cherished memories we have now probably are not going to be the same memories future generations will cherish because times are changing. Maybe they will cherish memories of spending time at a friend's house and exchanging titles of books they downloaded on their Kindles.

 

[TromboneAl]

Our elementary school librarian fit the stereotype perfectly. She was great and inspired one of classmates to become a librarian.

I remember the moment I realized that Jenny's nostalgic memories were being "set." Hard to express, but each generation's fond memories are different. Mine include snowstorms, snow days, and a Rambler that splashed water through the floorboards when we went over a puddle; hers will not.

 

[GregLee]

This might be the rejected veneer of the Manoa library ("Ready for Manoa Rain" by Drew Wertheimer).

 

[haha]

Our elementary school librarian fit the stereotype perfectly. She was great and inspired one of classmates to become a librarian.

I remember the moment I realized that Jenny's nostalgic memories were being "set." Hard to express, but each generation's fond memories are different. Mine include snowstorms, snow days, and a Rambler that splashed water through the floorboards when we went over a puddle; hers will not.

For me, it seems that with increasing age I become more and more focused on the present. Some of the past was good, some was bad, but none of it is strong enough to pull my attention away from today. I occasionally remember going out with M&D to cut a swamp cedar tree for Christmas on GPs farm. Good fun, and tying it on the old Dodge for the trip back to the city, having some Pfferneuse and hot milk before leaving. Also going fishing with my uncle. We'd go up a little creek off the river and seine some minnows, have a sandwich and start fishing as the sun got low. Always catch some bass. But I would be wet from seining, and I'd freeze trying to stay asleep on a damn rock by the river bank. My uncle was way too tough to pay any attention to things like comfort.

All very nice. But are these better memories than last weeks happy hour? No, for one thing it is harder to remember that many years ago and there were no oysters included. Although I do remember how good bass straight from the river taste next morning.

This applies even those highly praised early sex experiences. For me, this week's or next week's are worth a much more. All I have to do is remember that those girls from the past are old ladies today and the whatever fantasies I might have had are quickly over. I would like to relive some of that, but remembering it lacks punch.

Ha

 

[donheff]

For me, it seems that with increasing age I become more and more focused on the present. Some of the past was good, some was bad, but none of it is strong enough to pull my attention away from today.

+1 I can fondly reminisce about a variety of childhood thru college experiences but they don't hold more (or even as much) appeal than the present. I also enjoy the ubiquitous "remember when" email lists that fondly talk about various things we did back in the day but I don't agree with the implied judgement accompanying most of those messages that things were obviously better back then.

 

[Hamlet]

The idea that libraries are wildly expensive doesn't hold up to my investigation.

I live in Plymouth MN, which is in Hennepin County.

From the county website, it looks like the library operating budget was about $69 million last year. The capital budget was about $16 million. So they spent about $85 million on libraries in a county with 1.15 million people.

That's a per person cost of about $74/year for libraries. For my family of three, that amounts to $222/year. That's not a huge ebook budget for three people (although our two month old isn't reading yet ).

For perspective, our state and local property tax burden was about $9000 plus whatever sales taxes we've paid (we bought a car last year, so the sales tax is not trivial, I just don't keep records of it).

I just looked up the price of the library books I currently have out--

Don't vote it just encourages the bastards $9
Moyers on Democracy $11.99
False Alarm $10.49
Divided America $12.99
Empire of Illusion $8.20

That's $50 in books in one month right there for just me. Unless the pricing on eBooks changes dramatically, I don't see eReaders replacing libraries anytime soon.

Frankly, I still see them as toys for the mostly affluent.

We don't have an eReader (although my wife likes her Ipod, and reads a lot of online stuff on it now).

 

[RunningBum]

I've always loved libraries, and have taken advantage of them everywhere I've lived. My dad took us to the library, and I took my kid to the library. I thought I read a lot as a kid, but he just devoured books. I still haven't invested in an E-reader yet, because I'd rather check out books from the library than pay for e-books. Finally my library just got an e-book system so I'll probably check it out soon, but the selection seemed light.

I kind of expected that once I retired I would go every week or two and sit and browse magazines and newspapers. That hasn't happened yet, but I really haven't settled into a retirement routine yet.

There's something about having the books as the center that seems to appeal to me more than a community center, but I don't think I've ever been to a community center to know what those are like.

Certainly libraries will evolve over the next years and this seems an opportunity to try to predict what a 21st century library should have. I'm not sure what that would be, but I do see more people on computers than in the book stacks these days.

Even if it becomes obsolete in 25 years (I don't think it will be 5 or 10), the building will still be useful for something else, won't it?

 

[donheff]

Kevin Kelly weighed in on the topic in his Technium blog. He describes Brewster Kayle's (Internet Archive) effort to preserve copies of physical books for future access. Kelly says:

"We are in a special moment that will not last beyond the end of this century: Paper books are plentiful. They are cheap and everywhere, from airports to drug stores to libraries to bookstores to the shelves of millions of homes. There has never been a better time to be a lover of paper books. But very rapidly the production of paper books will essentially cease, and the collections in homes will dwindle, and even local libraries will not be supported to house books -- particularly popular titles. Rare books will collect in a few rare book libraries, and for the most part common paper books archives will become uncommon. It seems hard to believe now, but within a few generations, seeing a actual paper book will be as rare for most people as seeing an actual lion."

Still, I bet libraries probably have a few decades of value left.

 

[Nords]

[/I]Still, I bet libraries probably have a few decades of value left.

I bet Kelly was really upset when the Alexandria Library burned, too...

No matter how widespread and deeply penetrating the Internet becomes, we'll always have people printing out their e-mail. I suspect that we'll always have people printing books, too.

 

[obgyn65]

I agree with Ha here

We don't need local libraries at all, they are a waste of money and often fairly unpleasant places to be.

 

[Hamlet]

Anyone who has ever been or known a child that likes to read who happens to have poor parents knows that this is one of the most foolish things ever written on the internet.

I agree with Ha here

Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
We don't need local libraries at all, they are a waste of money and often fairly unpleasant places to be.


__________________

 

[obgyn65]

In the US, children have access to books via the Internet, central libraries, and have free access to knowledge in general. A lot of money is being spent on many local smaller libraries which are quite empty most of the time. Sorry Hamlet if my previous post came across as too harsh - I am just asking whether public money can be used in a better way.

 

[TromboneAl]

No matter how widespread and deeply penetrating the Internet becomes, we'll always have people printing out their e-mail.

Know anyone under 25 who does that?

 

[Hamlet]

My point is that most libraries are relatively cheap and have a pretty high return compared to most government spending. There are large portions of the population that don't have computers and internet access. You can tell because the free computers at the local library are almost always in use. Not that the internet is really a substitute for a library.

I would end Social Security and Medicare before I would start closing libraries (with the obvious exception of libraries that aren't getting much use).

From a truly practical standpoint, Social Security and Medicare can be thought of as a waste of money. Why spend money on people who are done working?

I'm always going to choose the next generation over the past ones.

In the US, children have access to books via the Internet, central libraries, and have free access to knowledge in general. A lot of money is being spent on many local smaller libraries which are quite empty most of the time. Sorry Hamlet if my previous post came across as too harsh - I am just asking whether public money can be used in a better way.

 

[obgyn65]

We will have to agree to disagree on this point. It is ok to disagree, this is America. Have a good evening, Hamlet.

I would end Social Security and Medicare before I would start closing libraries (with the obvious exception of libraries that aren't getting much use).

 

[Boose]

I'm arriving late to the party, but, being a librarian, have to respectfully disagree. It's not stupid to plan a new library, if future changes are figured into the plan.

We offer access to books, ebooks, e-audiobooks, DVDs, and more in the huge suburban/rural library system where I work. Our citizens pay about $34 per capita for this service - how many new books can you buy with that? We can purchase a lot more than the average consumer due to economy of scale and discounts offered by our vendors. For customers that like to browse magazines and newspapers and participate in book discussion groups, we offer those options. We also offer self-service requests (items coming from other libraries) and self-checkout machines for those who prefer to make a quick stop. It will be a while before families will be able to afford e-book readers for both parents and kids; I don't see paper books disappearing in the near future. However, our library system is re-evaluating how much shelving goes into our buildings, and how our customers prefer to interact with books and media. To that end, we're creating more of a bookstore or living-room experience than the "mausoleum of books" we know from childhood.

As for homeless customers in the library? That is a breakdown of the healthcare and social services systems, not the fault of the library. Libraries, as public buildings, are rarely able to (legally) turn away a homeless customer.

 

[Nords]

Know anyone under 25 who does that?

Why would anyone under age 25 use e-mail when they can send a text?

You're right about the under-25 group, but it's going to take them at least another 60 years to get rid of the deadwood geezers holding them down...

 

[Hamlet]

I don't actually want to end SS and Medicare. I just want to prevent the elderly of this country from eating the seed corn.

There are periods in a child's development when their minds expand like sponges. Having almost unlimited access to books at that time is really, really helpful.

I'm thankful that I had access to public libraries during those periods in my life. I don't think I'd have made it quite as far personally and professionally without them.

You have a good night as well, obgyn65.

We will have to agree to disagree on this point. It is ok to disagree, this is America. Have a good evening, Hamlet.

 

[donheff]

I'm arriving late to the party, but, being a librarian, have to respectfully disagree. It's not stupid to plan a new library, if future changes are figured into the plan.

We offer access to books, ebooks, e-audiobooks, DVDs, and more in the huge suburban/rural library system where I work.

Are you privy to the purchasing decisions/plans for ebooks in your system? I get the impression that libraries are not moving aggressively in this direction and that publishers are throwing up major roadblocks. Do you hear anything along those lines?

 

[Boose]

Hi donheff, yes, my department purchases all materials for the library system. We use an ebook vendor called OverDrive (lots of libraries do). They provide the catalog of titles, storage, and digital resource management (checking-out and checking-in) of titles, but there are definite drawbacks. Everybody hates DRM, except, I suppose, the publishers. There are two major publishers who still won't offer ebooks to libraries (Simon & Schuster and Macmillan) and one that would like to restrict ebooks to 26 usages before "disappearing" them (HarperCollins). I would like libraries to be more aggressive in developing an ebook acquisition/lending system that works for our customers, but it's difficult to get a lot of small fish to negotiate with whales. The American Library Association is convening a committee to work on this...

 

[TromboneAl]

We offer access to books, ebooks, e-audiobooks, DVDs, and more in the huge suburban/rural library system where I work. Our citizens pay about $34 per capita for this service - how many new books can you buy with that?

At least 87. That's how many Kindle books (57 -- 20 active and 37 archived), and Stanza and library epub books (over 30) I have right now. I didn't pay a penny for any of them, and I didn't need to get in my car and visit a library building to get them.