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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 10:00 AM   #301
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Leave the fat people alone. They have the right to be fat if they want.
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 10:09 AM   #302
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Martha,

it doesn't really matter how many positive ways you try to promote health and help people.

To break any habbit requires hard work on the part of the person. We, as a comminuty, can only do so much, unless we prepare to make it mandatory, create laws, etc. But then your come against that whole "free will" thing.

May be the people you have met were blaming themselves and not the rest of the world. Unless they did anything to change those habbits, what good did it do?

Lena
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 10:10 AM   #303
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I rarely see people who have addiction problems (food, alcohol, cigarettes, etc) blame anyone but themselves. They live with so much shame that the shame makes it difficult for them to find motivation to change.

I believe I have suggested several positive ways to promote weight loss in this country.
There is a difference between blame and understanding root causes. I can see how growing up in a family that made poor health choices shaped my behaviour and habits. Are my parents responsible for my weight problem? At some point, you "own" the issue and take steps to make corrections, however, it would be short-sited not to reflect on my childhood, see food used as a reward and crutch, and understand how that shaped my behaviour.

How many habits have you (general "you" - not specific) tried to change? Losing weight isn't one habit change - you change what and how often you exercise, you change the foods you eat, when you eat, how much you eat, why you eat. To be successful, you have to change multiple habits at the same time.

I don't know how "normal" people feel - do they have the cravings and out of control binge eating that some people with weight problems have? In my personal situation, it was a matter of discovering the foods that effected me the most. Considering the family history of diabetes, that should have clued me in a little sooner that high-glycemic foods were no-no's for me.

As the "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" people have pointed out, ultimately, it was "me" that made the changes in my behaviour and educated myself about what is "good for me" in terms of food and portions. But, I had a lot of help and support all thru my struggle. The last thing I needed when I was struggling was someone to get in my face and tell me I lack willpower.

I have no doubt food is a drug, and for some a drug of choice. I can tell absolutely how certain foods effect my mood and behaviour. Try giving an alcoholic a beer and then chastize them for not staying away from the vodka. You cannot avoid food...at least not for very long. With all the conflicting information out there, including the mega-billion dollar diet industry, and it's easy for a person who is making a sincere effort to change their habits to get lost.
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 10:24 AM   #304
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by kowski
Leave the fat people alone. They have the right to be fat if they want.


PS: Die, thread, die!! :P
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 10:42 AM   #305
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Soon, Cube, soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
Martha,

it doesn't really matter how many positive ways you try to promote health and help people.

To break any habbit requires hard work on the part of the person. We, as a comminuty, can only do so much, unless we prepare to make it mandatory, create laws, etc. But then your come against that whole "free will" thing.

May be the people you have met were blaming themselves and not the rest of the world. Unless they did anything to change those habbits, what good did it do?

Lena
No one here ever seriously suggested mandatory reduction of obesity.
No one ever suggested that breaking habits isn't hard work. Damn, don't I know it.
But it does matter what we do to promote health. It matters a lot. I bet we can help people find and reinforce motivation in themselves. This has not been a public health priority.

I am getting too repetitious. Go back and read some suggestions I made early in this topic.
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 10:53 AM   #306
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Re: The obesity epidemic


I think I hear the fat lady warming up her voice...

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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:06 AM   #307
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
So, what I recommend is having a major public health inititive to combat obesity and other addictive disorders. A five year plan to help people become healthier. There could be many aspects to the plan. Tax deductions for weight loss programs (that are based on evidence) and exercise programs. Free nicotine substitutes from your public health nurse. Dramatic changes in school lunch programs. In schools, I remember the clutzy and chubby kids shamed in gym class. The shame didn't help. Instead, help kids find waht they enjoy doing so long as it is moving around. Spinning if nothing else.
Is this what you are referring to? Interesting.

How are you going to get people to sign up? And if you do get people to sign up, what happens when they gain it back again? More deductions? More free stuff?


Martha, you are very respected on this board, your intelligence was mentioned by a few posters, and I've only been here two minutes, but how realistic are you ideas?

Lena
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:10 AM   #308
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
I think I hear the fat lady warming up her voice...
Wait-- just one more chorus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclesters
When I got there, the 100 lbs overweight nurse did my weight, blood pressure, temp and asked me what I was there for. Somewhat embarrassed, I replied for weight loss advice. Then the doctor came in (okay came in 45 minutes later), who is about 40 lbs overweight.
Now I realize that her knowledge of nutrition is not affected by her weight, but it is strange to be talking about losing weight with a doctor who is overweight (recalling the docs I've known who smoked).
No, but their weight sure as heck affects their credibility.

How much do they charge for this "advice"? Sounds like you need a new doctor, perhaps someone who's recently succeeded at losing 20 or 30 pounds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kowski
Leave the fat people alone. They have the right to be fat if they want.
Yes, as long as their lifestyle choice doesn't tax take my money away from me without my choice.

If a person is trying to control their weight, then great-- if they're helping themselves then we should offer support & assistance. But if they're overweight due to their own neglect/misconduct and they're not interested in getting themselves out of that situation, then I'm not interested in helping them either.

It's like riding a motorcycle without a helmet (as Hawaii state law permits). Have a blast, but if you're injured by something that a helmet would have avoided then I don't feel obligated to support your misconduct with my tax dollars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
Is this what you are referring to? Interesting.
How are you going to get people to sign up? And if you do get people to sign up, what happens when they gain it back again? More deductions? More free stuff?
Martha, you are very respected on this board, your intelligence was mentioned by a few posters, and I've only been here two minutes, but how realistic are you ideas?
Lena
Hey, Lena, instead of attacking the posters perhaps you could share how your program is better than some other poster's program. Instead of "Yeah, but" questions you could proffer a positive contribution.
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:14 AM   #309
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Re: The obesity epidemic

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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:23 AM   #310
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Re: The obesity epidemic

There are names for characters like you too.
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:31 AM   #311
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Re: The obesity epidemic

[
Funny you should mention it-- that's where the daughter of one of my shipmates got her new kidneys...
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:41 AM   #312
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Hey, Lena, instead of attacking the posters perhaps you could share how your program is better than some other poster's program. Instead of "Yeah, but" questions you could proffer a positive contribution
Where exactly did you see me attacking anyone? Are you saying I am not allowed to question ideas posted here?

What kind of positive contribution are you looking for? I think obesity is a very serious problem. I don't know how getting govt involved is going to solve it. I don't pretent to have answers.

I didn't realize that unless you can solve the problems you are not allowed to express an opinion around here

Lena
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:53 AM   #313
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Lena,

I have no problem with your posts.

In the final analysis the obese person has to want to change and accept the help being offered. If they won't then they also accept the consequences. I don't want to live in a "Big Brother Society" where the government intrudes into every part of our lives. The big question is how far should society go to change behavior?

2soon
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 11:54 AM   #314
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Can someone padlock this thread and call it a day?
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 12:04 PM   #315
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclesters
. . . I went to see my GP yesterday, to talk nutrition and diet. . . .
That's your first mistake. Doctors are not trained well, if at all, about nutrition and diet. My DW got her first degree in Hospital Dietetics. She planned hospital diets and educated patients at a number of hospitals including Stanford Medical Center heart transplant floor. Through that work we got to know a number of hospital dieticians, nurses and doctors over the years. When it came to diet, I think everyone we knew was in agreement that doctors were the worst source of information. Some of the stories about doctor's diet advice would have been funny if they weren't frightening. There are exceptions -- doctors who have actually studied nutrition and diet -- but they are rare.
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 12:07 PM   #316
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by cube_rat
Can someone padlock this thread and call it a day?
I hear Hitler was a vegitarian!

Kayaking is a great form of exercise!
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 12:09 PM   #317
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Re: The obesity epidemic

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I hear Hitler was a vegitarian!

Kayaking is a great form of exercise!
I only eat vegitarian kayaks.
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 01:22 PM   #318
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Well I could be evil, post my final post, and then lock the thread preventing any feedback.

I sorry. I can't shut up. I truly promise this will be my last post (on this thread).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena


Is this what you are referring to? Interesting.

How are you going to get people to sign up? And if you do get people to sign up, what happens when they gain it back again? More deductions? More free stuff?


Martha, you are very respected on this board, your intelligence was mentioned by a few posters, and I've only been here two minutes, but how realistic are you ideas?

Lena
Who knows until we try something? I can give more ideas, but. . .

I don't know if I can articulate this well, but some of the most important endeavors are ones that will have failure after failure along the way. When I was in undergrad I had a job for a short time working in a lab (washing dishes) with a doctor and staff that were working on cancer research. Their path was paved with failures. But they didn't give up. We don't have all the answers so there will be failures. But it is time for a rah rah effort to see if progress can be made.

But we are not totally clueless; we do know some things that can help us design what programs to put in place. For example, we know that trans fats are bad. So tax them or eliminate them.

Etc.

I promise, no more.

So, to not steal the last word for myself, if anyone else posts on this thread, I promise to lock it after they post. OK?
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 01:23 PM   #319
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
I hear Hitler was a vegitarian!

Kayaking is a great form of exercise!
And I would keep three buckets in a kayak to bail out any water...

oops...wrong thread
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Re: The obesity epidemic
Old 10-10-2006, 01:26 PM   #320
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Re: The obesity epidemic

Lock it, lock it, lock it...

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