Water Leak...Upstairs Shower?

Really not understanding the inability to just replace the drain unit as a whole. Weird old thread pitch/count? Crossthreaded? A cutoff wheel gets the remaining attached bits out of the way and you just add a new shiny drain. This will require exposing the bottom of the shower so you can attach the new drain to the pan and downline pipe, but still a whole bunch less effort, time and cost compared to redoing several bathrooms.

I resist job growth. Keep things simple.
 
travelover said:
If you haven't already, research and post at this tiling forum re bases and waterproofing.
Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile - Powered by vBulletin

If this really all hinges on not being able to get that one drain part, it might be cheaper to have a new one made at a machine shop. :D
Click to expand...

Thanks travelover....will read thru that link.

I was in the process of getting quotes to redo the hall bath when this drain issue came up in the "other" bath. Fixing it would make the shower functional but it doesn't address my desire for a bigger shower in that bath...which is something all of my children have complained about. When I built this house, kids were little. Who knew I'd have a 5'7 inch daughter and sons near or over 6 feet dating and probably marrying girls that are 5'10 inches.

Both showers need to either be larger or with more "head room" (with cap) going. :) The floors also have the original high grade linoleum or whatever it was I put in 20 plus years ago. Due for an upgrade there....and don't want to redo floors unless or until new showers are also in.

Thank you for the link!
 
calmloki said:
Really not understanding the inability to just replace the drain unit as a whole. Weird old thread pitch/count? Crossthreaded? A cutoff wheel gets the remaining attached bits out of the way and you just add a new shiny drain. This will require exposing the bottom of the shower so you can attach the new drain to the pan and downline pipe, but still a whole bunch less effort, time and cost compared to redoing several bathrooms.

I resist job growth. Keep things simple.
Click to expand...

Oh...it can be done calmloki but ....they will have to cut a hole from the ceiling below. I suppose my view is why pay the money to do that...when I don't like the shower to begin with and want to replace it with a larger shower. Why fix something that is on the chopping block so to speak. And it has been on my list of items to change.

I agree though...it has been frustrating not being able to find that darn part. Plumber spent 2 hours here trying to get it to work...so I already have that bill coming. Not sure what you mean by a cutoff wheel and what that will do.

Brother offered to take it to a machinist....and I may do that as it looks like the earliest I will be able to get these shower projects going may be April.
 
Oh and BTW...part of what is driving this ...is to fix the "nits" in the house that have bothered me such that it won't bother a potential buyer. Not that we are selling....but I always have that in my view.
 
I find the whole decision process on shower enclosures somewhat humorous. We did the tile and nice thick frameless glass with the special coating on it. Not cheap, but looks great. However, from a functional standpoint the fiberglass/acrylic prefab really makes more sense. Yeah the drain connection can leak but otherwise it's a foolproof water proof installation and their is no grout to get grungy. So we have this beautiful tiled shower that we have to clean, and after every shower we squeegee the glass to avoid the waterspouts!
 
I'm not sure where exactly your drain is leaking, I'm assuming it's in the straight run between the P trap and the shower. I was thinking of a way to seal it from the inside. If you're adventurous you could try to line that run with something like a "tube" of fiberglass soaked with two part epoxy resin. The trick is a) getting it very dry first and b) inflating it so it seals up to the sides; I'd try a balloon. This suggestion no doubt is generated from decades of being in the water and sewer business in which we used this technique to reline sewers; the inflation of the tube or "bag" was done with hot water that triggered the catalytic reaction of the epoxy. Anyway, the closer to the shower the leak is the more inclined I'd be to try this.....
 
H2ODude said:
I find the whole decision process on shower enclosures somewhat humorous. We did the tile and nice thick frameless glass with the special coating on it. Not cheap, but looks great. However, from a functional standpoint the fiberglass/acrylic prefab really makes more sense. Yeah the drain connection can leak but otherwise it's a foolproof water proof installation and their is no grout to get grungy. So we have this beautiful tiled shower that we have to clean, and after every shower we squeegee the glass to avoid the waterspouts!
Click to expand...

That's where I'm heading...the prefab acrylic...especially for childrens baths rarely used.
Downstairs master already tiled.

Another point and question.
What to use to seal the drain. Plumber used and uses nothing but plumbers caulk. That is what was used on this drain. Shower not in regular use, the caulk dried out, cracked, broke up in pieces..etc.
Some have been recommending 100% silicone instead.
What say you?
 
H2ODude said:
I find the whole decision process on shower enclosures somewhat humorous. We did the tile and nice thick frameless glass with the special coating on it. Not cheap, but looks great. However, from a functional standpoint the fiberglass/acrylic prefab really makes more sense. Yeah the drain connection can leak but otherwise it's a foolproof water proof installation and their is no grout to get grungy. So we have this beautiful tiled shower that we have to clean, and after every shower we squeegee the glass to avoid the waterspouts!
Click to expand...
Well, sort of foolproof. Our house was about 2 years old when we noticed a crack in the floor pan portion of a fiberglass prefab shower. We had a company that did both boat and shower repairs put another layer of fiberglass on the pan. No problems after that and it looked good, but don't get a cheap unit and make sure it is put in correctly.
 
sheehs1 said:
Oh...it can be done calmloki but .... Not sure what you mean by a cutoff wheel and what that will do.

Brother offered to take it to a machinist....and I may do that as it looks like the earliest I will be able to get these shower projects going may be April.
Click to expand...


If this is just the precipitating excuse to do a bunch of (expensive) desired remodeling, then ignore fixit thoughts. Dremel makes little ittybitty abrasive cutoff wheels, and I've used their carbide fluted cutting bits with good success getting kitchen sink baskets gone, but I was thinking a 4" wheel. Like so:

Angle Grinders (2 of 4) - Graphic Content! - YouTube

This is a great tool for removing broken toilet flanges. or padlocks. or eyes....
 
H2ODude said:
I'm not sure where exactly your drain is leaking, I'm assuming it's in the straight run between the P trap and the shower. I was thinking of a way to seal it from the inside. If you're adventurous you could try to line that run with something like a "tube" of fiberglass soaked with two part epoxy resin. The trick is a) getting it very dry first and b) inflating it so it seals up to the sides; I'd try a balloon. This suggestion no doubt is generated from decades of being in the water and sewer business in which we used this technique to reline sewers; the inflation of the tube or "bag" was done with hot water that triggered the catalytic reaction of the epoxy. Anyway, the closer to the shower the leak is the more inclined I'd be to try this.....
Click to expand...

Not sure of the terminology. It leaked because of the degrading plumbers caulk. There was barely any on there when the flange thing was taken off. There was also a crack in the rim of this flange thing (the part that sits down tight on the shower floor). So perhaps more movement?

With that I can only say water was going where it would not normally go with this type of drain and one piece acrylic shower- all due to lack of plumbers caulk and perhaps a crack in the screw part of the flange thing. Don't you love my novice descriptions! :)
 
sheehs1 said:
Not sure of the terminology. It leaked because of the degrading plumbers caulk. There was barely any on there when the flange thing was taken off. There was also a crack in the rim of this flange thing (the part that sits down tight on the shower floor). So perhaps more movement?

With that I can only say water was going where it would not normally go with this type of drain and one piece acrylic shower- all due to lack of plumbers caulk and perhaps a crack in the screw part of the flange thing. Don't you love my novice descriptions! :)
Click to expand...

My method wouldn't work unless you want to bring the epoxy up over the hub; probably could be done but aesthetically would be questionable. I would guess that in your case and Hermits, the problem was that the enclosure was flexing around the hub; plumbers putty should last a long time as long as things don't move. If they do it loses its plasticity and will crack. I used an acrylic for the mother in law addition I built and I remember well the instructions to push cement grout in from the sides once it's set to provide support for the shower floor. I did and have no problems so far after 8 years. If you don't have that support I would guess anything would fail after a while from the flexure around the drain.
 
Hermit said:
Well, sort of foolproof. Our house was about 2 years old when we noticed a crack in the floor pan portion of a fiberglass prefab shower. We had a company that did both boat and shower repairs put another layer of fiberglass on the pan. No problems after that and it looked good, but don't get a cheap unit and make sure it is put in correctly.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the heads up!
 
H2ODude said:
My method wouldn't work unless you want to bring the epoxy up over the hub; probably could be done but aesthetically would be questionable. I would guess that in your case and Hermits, the problem was that the enclosure was flexing around the hub; plumbers putty should last a long time as long as things don't move. If they do it loses its plasticity and will crack. I used an acrylic for the mother in law addition I built and I remember well the instructions to push cement grout in from the sides once it's set to provide support for the shower floor. I did and have no problems so far after 8 years. If you don't have that support I would guess anything would fail after a while from the flexure around the drain.
Click to expand...

I can see where that can certainly stabilize things better. I have no idea what sort of support is there currently. I do think the floor of this shower flexed some. Will try to remedy that when a new one is put in.
thanks H20Dude!
 
Has anyone installed acrylic bases and tiled just the shower walls? If so, did you have any problems? What's the point? Well...can't seem to find a component "acrylic" unit to fit my dimensions. Can find the base but the bases I find don't have the walls.
 
sheehs1 said:
Has anyone installed acrylic bases and tiled just the shower walls? If so, did you have any problems? What's the point? Well...can't seem to find a component "acrylic" unit to fit my dimensions. Can find the base but the bases I find don't have the walls.
Click to expand...
Isn't this basically how most bath tubs are installed?
 
Ha Good point travelover!

I suppose i thought it might be different with a 3 inch acrylic base for a shower rather than a 20 inch plus tall tub that has tile around it and the walls. Bath tubs, don't normally have water running down the walls above the tub unless of course one has an acrylic tub and tiled walls for a shower above it (which I don't) Hence the reason for my question. Wanted to know if anyone has used a 3 inch acrylic shower base but tiled only the walls of the shower or if anyone knew of any potential problems (other than normal ones) going in that direction.
 
sheehs1 said:
Ha Good point travelover!

I suppose i thought it might be different with a 3 inch acrylic base for a shower rather than a 20 inch plus tall tub that has tile around it and the walls. Bath tubs, don't normally have water running down the walls above the tub unless of course one has an acrylic tub and tiled walls for a shower above it (which I don't) Hence the reason for my question. Wanted to know if anyone has used a 3 inch acrylic shower base but tiled only the walls of the shower or if anyone knew of any potential problems (other than normal ones) going in that direction.
Click to expand...
Had that exact kind of shower in the master bath in a house several years ago. We had problems with the grout for quite a few years. I would repair it, but it didn't take long before it looked bad or started causing problems. Had an outfit come in and re-grout the bottom three feet or so using an epoxy grout. They had to clean all the old grout out. Never had a problem or mold issue after that. The guy said the tiles would break before the epoxy would come lose. They had to have all the respiration gear so the grouting was not a DIY project.
 
sheehs1 said:
....... Bath tubs, don't normally have water running down the walls above the tub unless of course one has an acrylic tub and tiled walls for a shower above it (which I don't).........
Click to expand...
I've lived in several houses that had a steel or cast iron tub and walls covered with ceramic tile used with a shower head mounted high on one wall. The tub is designed so it has an vertical lip which the tile overlaps.

Looking at Google images for shower bases, some appear to have a vertical lip, which I'd assume is for this purpose.

In an older post, Nords related that he had built a shower where each wall was covered with a single sheet of material, eliminating all that grout and its attendant maintenance. Seems like a good idea.
 
Hermit said:
Had that exact kind of shower in the master bath in a house several years ago. We had problems with the grout for quite a few years. I would repair it, but it didn't take long before it looked bad or started causing problems. Had an outfit come in and re-grout the bottom three feet or so using an epoxy grout. They had to clean all the old grout out. Never had a problem or mold issue after that. The guy said the tiles would break before the epoxy would come lose. They had to have all the respiration gear so the grouting was not a DIY project.
Click to expand...

Epoxy grout. Good to know! I need to print off this thread!
Thanks Hermit!
 
travelover said:
I've lived in several houses that had a steel or cast iron tub and walls covered with ceramic tile used with a shower head mounted high on one wall. The tub is designed so it has an vertical lip which the tile overlaps.

Looking at Google images for shower bases, some appear to have a vertical lip, which I'd assume is for this purpose.

In an older post, Nords related that he had built a shower where each wall was covered with a single sheet of material, eliminating all that grout and its attendant maintenance. Seems like a good idea.
Click to expand...

Yes it is the grout and maintenance that is the drawback even though it looks nicer.
My preference for maintenance is acrylic base and 3 component walls (vertical, not horizontal)....but am having a hard time finding it for the size of one of the showers. I can find fiberglass but I want acrylic. I'll keep looking! And I'll pay attention to looking for that vertical lip! Thanks travelover!
 
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Sheesh1,
I have the exact same unit that you described. I'm in the midst of renovation and haven't decided to remove the shower pan or not (DW would like a tiled floor). The shower pan does have a lip, about 1" high so you can tile (or cover w/something else) over it help drain water into the pan. My drain pipe is copper and the shower drain is soldered into the copper. This looks to be from 1963 and was tiled on drywall, which I wouldn't use. Based on my research, you should do plastic sheeting, cement backer board, then tile over it. The failure in this setup was drywall behind the bottom 3-5 rows of tile. The drywall was water damaged and the area connected to the shower door had water damage. This is essentially the same tiling for a tub/shower combo unit which I did at my old house. I think if you use a vent fan (run during shower and for 10 mins after) and squeegee the walls after using the shower this will help keeping the walls clean and mildew/mold free. I've read some people even towel the walls dry to keep the tiles dry.

As far as maintenance on the grout at the old house, I renovated the bathroom about 15 yrs ago, started using the squeegee for the last 4 yrs and used the vent fan the entire time. Never had any issues w/mold or mildew. Just did 2-3 specific brush cleanings to clean the grout (white), never had to redo any grout lines. Re-caulked the tile to the tub when we put the house up for sale.
 
Dimsumkid said:
.......... The failure in this setup was drywall behind the bottom 3-5 rows of tile. The drywall was water damaged and the area connected to the shower door had water damage. .....
Click to expand...
Right, the drywall will wick up water at the base. I'd never use drywall or even green board under wetted tile, especially since cement board is relatively cheap.

Here is Nord's old post. I recall another , but couldn't find it.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/re-glazing-shower-tiles-45595.html#post841925
 
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