Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 06:24 AM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ladelfina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,713
Re: What he said...

I like your test, but.. what if the Republican in question is Dick Cheny?
If I'm his wife or kid, I'm screwed!

Can we get a gang that can at least shoot straight, please?
__________________

__________________
ladelfina is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 07:44 AM   #42
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick S
What about a third-party ticket with Colin Powell and Barack Obama?
... doesn't matter who's pres and VP... but the two together... Awesome!
I'm looking for a "gag" emoticon. Moderators? Help me out here.

JG
__________________

__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
Mr._johngalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 12:21 PM   #43
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpp
Colin Powell was the author of "Don't ask, don't tell," and looked the world right in the eye and knowingly lied to us about WMD in Iraq.
Other than those things, a great guy. But I couldn't in good conscience vote for him at this point, without evidence of some serious soul-searching on his part with respect to these matters first.
Colin Powell was the only guy in uniform to stand up to Clinton on homosexuals serving openly in the military. The rest of the leadership stubbed their toes in the ground, mumbled their half-hearted support for the CINC, and looked out of the corners of their eyes to see which way the other leaders were going.

I consider that Powell was wrong in doing so, but the man had the commitment to his convictions coupled with the ability to keep pushing (despite being able to retire to a life of luxury) and to forge a compromise (even though he could quit anytime he felt like it). Today the chain of command no longer has to feel obligated to persecute homosexuals (heck, now it's illegal) and the military is a lot closer to allowing homosexuals to serve openly. That progress wouldn't have occurred without Powell's efforts.

As a former NSA Powell was certainly aware that the WMD intelligence had its flaws, and I'm pretty sure that he had a few forceful-backup comments on the subject, but again he chose to support the team when he could have just quit and walked off the stage. After over 12 years of dealing with Hussein he knew it was time for the man to go. I don't like the way he used weasel words but I notice that Powell didn't go out of his way to support the intelligence after the war started.

I think Powell's biggest mistake as SecState was believing that State dept should have taken over Iraq from the military's civil-affairs soldiers. The whole thing fell apart once the Iraq Army veterans & retirees were sent home. Maybe Powell's self-confidence got the better of him. Who knows, maybe Powell trusted himself supervising State more than he trusted Rumsfeld supervising Defense. Again, I'd like to see what history has to say on this over the next 20-30 years.

Any crybaby who doesn't get his way can throw a tantrum, kick over the game board, and stomp off in a huff. (James Webb.) I think Powell stuck the controversies out and usually left them better than he found them.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 12:53 PM   #44
Full time employment: Posting here.
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern, Florida
Posts: 925
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Democrat's answer: I'm not stupid enough to walk down a deserted street where terrorists might jump me, my wife, and small children. You would have to be an idiot, a Republican, or a dumb redneck to do that.

Republican's answer:
BANG . . . "Got you ya little . . . BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG as the remaining scumbags on the desserted street you've chosen to bring your family down shoot and kill you and your family.

Redneck's answer: not available. The redneck died prior to the test. His last words were, "Here. Hold my beer and watch this."

Nice comeback! However, like Captain Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru test, you have changed the test to make it possible for you to win. :
__________________
Retired in 2006 at age 49.

"Who among us is smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others?" - Voltaire
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 01:16 PM   #45
Full time employment: Posting here.
Alex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 696
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Maybe I am just in a sh!tty mood after a really awful night's "sleep", or maybe I am just a nasty partisan bastard, but I think the first order of business afer the Democrats regain one or both sides of Congress is to "drain the swamp," as Rep. Pelosi put it. That means investigations, impeachments (please, please, please), and then righting the mess in Iraq, cleaning up our sorry excuse for foreign policy (and Iraqmire), and sorting out the fiscal mess. This will likely take more than two years.

But cutting out the cancer is the necessary first step. Cheney and Bush had better be prepared to have their balls handed to them in a paper bag.
Sorry Brewer, but methinks that most folks aren't interested in witch hunts, investigations, impeachments etc...It only hurts the country we all love.

IMHO, Democrats need to change their message - "we're not Bush", ain't workin. And f they ever want to get the White House back, they need to stop running unelectable candidates like John Kerry, Al Gore and Hillary Clinton.
__________________
Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.--Drew Carey
Alex is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 01:18 PM   #46
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,644
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Nice comeback! However, like Captain Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru test, you have changed the test to make it possible for you to win. :
Wrong, you set up the test to make it impossible for anyone who doesn't think like you to win. Sqeeee had the sense to go outside of your arbitrary box, proof that he is not a republican or a redneck.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 01:48 PM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,375
Re: What he said...

Quick overview of some of the Democratic message:
-- Energy independence
-- Retirement security
-- Protecting civil rights
-- Providing fair elections
-- Affordable health care
-- Protecting the environment
-- Preventing government corruption

If you see this as simply anti-Bush, I think it says more about you & Bush than it does about Democrats
__________________
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.
astromeria is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 02:45 PM   #48
Full time employment: Posting here.
Alex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 696
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromeria
Quick overview of some of the Democratic message:
-- Energy independence
-- Retirement security
-- Protecting civil rights
-- Providing fair elections
-- Affordable health care
-- Protecting the environment
-- Preventing government corruption

If you see this as simply anti-Bush, I think it says more about you & Bush than it does about Democrats
sorry, but, No, it doesn't. so please, take off your 'party' glasses. What is says it that both parties are full of crap and until reasonable people get together and vote all these bums out, we are stuck with a bi-partisan system that merely rotates the trash every few elections rather than throwing it out. Ask Republicans what they stand for and you'll get a laundry list that looks eerily similar to yours, only with 'lower taxes' thrown in the mix.
__________________
Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.--Drew Carey
Alex is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 04:31 PM   #49
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Sorry Brewer, but methinks that most folks aren't interested in witch hunts, investigations, impeachments etc...It only hurts the country we all love.

IMHO, Democrats need to change their message - "we're not Bush", ain't workin. And f they ever want to get the White House back, they need to stop running unelectable candidates like John Kerry, Al Gore and Hillary Clinton.
And Obama. Damn, I still can't find that "gag" emoticon.

JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
Mr._johngalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 05:02 PM   #50
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What he said...

John Edwards can win. And is the only southern Democrat that will probably run.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 05:11 PM   #51
Moderator Emeritus
laurence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,234
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Actually, the key thing you said was 'majority'. - It is the requirement of a majority that makes mulitple parties a reality. Not the form of government. Today anyone with a plurality wins the election. Just change the election rules to require a majority and Wa La - You not only have 3rd parties, but 4th, 5th, 6th, etc. etc. etc. - just like in France. - The parlimentary system has nothing to do with it. It's the election rules.

This is Political Science 101 - Which I'm guessing you never took.
Why are you taking shots at me??
__________________
laurence is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 05:27 PM   #52
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 699
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Colin Powell was the only guy in uniform to stand up to Clinton on homosexuals serving openly in the military.
[...]
I consider that Powell was wrong in doing so, but the man had the commitment to his convictions coupled with the ability to keep pushing (despite being able to retire to a life of luxury) and to forge a compromise (even though he could quit anytime he felt like it). Today the chain of command no longer has to feel obligated to persecute homosexuals (heck, now it's illegal) and the military is a lot closer to allowing homosexuals to serve openly. That progress wouldn't have occurred without Powell's efforts.
Wait a sec: without Powell's efforts, Clinton would have issued an executive order allowing homosexuals to serve openly to begin with. Powell's efforts slowed down progress -- they didn't help it.

Quote:
As a former NSA Powell was certainly aware that the WMD intelligence had its flaws, and I'm pretty sure that he had a few forceful-backup comments on the subject, but again he chose to support the team when he could have just quit and walked off the stage.
So in this matter, it is a virtue for him to go along with something he knew was wrong, while in the former matter it was a virtue for him to stick to his (misguided) principles rather than cooperate with the administration?

Quote:
After over 12 years of dealing with Hussein he knew it was time for the man to go. I don't like the way he used weasel words but I notice that Powell didn't go out of his way to support the intelligence after the war started.
He lied to us, and I believe he knew he was doing so. If he thought there were other, good reasons to go into Iraq, he should have focused on them.

I guess sometimes it is better to be a team player, and sometimes better to be the lone maverick. I am sure these are very hard decisions to make, but his having come down on (what I consider) the wrong sides of two issues that pissed me off mightily really reduces my willingness to support the guy.

__________________
bpp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 05:56 PM   #53
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
John Edwards can win. And is the only southern Democrat that will probably run.
An empty suit.

JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
Mr._johngalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 07:20 PM   #54
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
Why are you taking shots at me??
I am not taking shots at you! - I'm only explaining the 3rd party thing. It is a fact that the reason we have 2 parties in the U.S is because we decide our elections based on plurality not majority. It is very simple, no conspiracies, no plots, just election rules. People always see 3rd parties as the solution. They should work hard to change our election rules.

It only irritates me because I was a student of Political Science and often hear that a third party candidate will fix all of our problems. Nothing could be further from the truth.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 09:36 PM   #55
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Gone4Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,381
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromeria
Quick overview of some of the Democratic message:
-- Energy independence
-- Retirement security
-- Protecting civil rights
-- Providing fair elections
-- Affordable health care
-- Protecting the environment
-- Preventing government corruption

If you see this as simply anti-Bush, I think it says more about you & Bush than it does about Democrats
Some of the things on this list reflect core Democratic priorities, but some are jokes . . . right?

Like:

-- "Energy Independence". Right, and they want to achieve that by coming out against nearly every economically feasible domestic energy project. (i.e. no drilling in Alaska, no drilling off-shore California or Florida, many are against building nukes, and burning coal, etc, etc.).

-- "Retirement Security" - you are joking right? What, exactly, did the Dems contribute to this last debate on reforming social security? We know they are against privatization, but what exactly did they come out in favor of?

-- "Providing Fair Elections" - with "fair elections" defined as "elections Democrats win?"

--"Preventing Government Corruption" - both parties are equal opportunity sleaze balls. Lets not forget Clinton's shady land deals and commodity futures; the 1996 DNC taking campaign contributions from China and Korea (talk about corruption?); Bob Torricellie's laundry list of scandals, Dan Rostenkowski's 17 count felony indictment, the Abscam bribery scandal resulting in the convictions of Harrison Williams, John Jenrette, Richard Kelly (Republican), Raymond Lederer, Michael Myers, Frank Tompson, and John Murphy, to name a few.
__________________
Retired early, traveling perpetually.
Gone4Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-21-2006, 11:09 PM   #56
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpp
Wait a sec: without Powell's efforts, Clinton would have issued an executive order allowing homosexuals to serve openly to begin with. Powell's efforts slowed down progress -- they didn't help it.
If Truman integrated the armed forces in 1948, then why in the 1970s were we still putting ships out of action for racist incidents?

IMO there's a lack of appreciation for the military's homophobia. Powell did a lot to ease a transition that I think is necessary, let alone inevitable, instead of ramming it through with conflicts & incidents. It's not a question of whether or not we get there, just how many people get hurt or killed along the way. I think Powell put together a better solution than Clinton's mandate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpp
So in this matter, it is a virtue for him to go along with something he knew was wrong, while in the former matter it was a virtue for him to stick to his (misguided) principles rather than cooperate with the administration?
He lied to us, and I believe he knew he was doing so. If he thought there were other, good reasons to go into Iraq, he should have focused on them.
I guess sometimes it is better to be a team player, and sometimes better to be the lone maverick. I am sure these are very hard decisions to make, but his having come down on (what I consider) the wrong sides of two issues that pissed me off mightily really reduces my willingness to support the guy.
I don't know. I think he got told to come up with a better answer or to parrot the party line. I think he chose to stay in the game by parroting the party line instead of by resigning, a move that would have been even worse for the time and the administration. Like I said, I look forward to reading the history books...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-22-2006, 12:05 AM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: What he said...

I don't have strong negative feelings about Colin Powell, but I really don't see what he's done that is impressive in any way. His resistance to Clinton on allowing gays to serve openly seems like pretty weak praise. I would have had a lot more respect for him if he had chosen to use his leadership position and reputation to step up to the military leaders and homophobes and said, "This is the right thing to do. This is what the comander in chief and the country believe is right. It is our duty to do this." Now that would have been leadership -- and more consistent with the role the military should play in political decisions.

While his role in the Bush-Cheny administration is not as reprehensible as Rumsfeld's or Rice's, he didn't stand up to GWB (like he did to Clinton over gays) when they chose to lie to the country about WMDs. He apparently felt like upholding the status quo on gay bashing was more important than stopping an unjustified invasion that has cost thousands their lives.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-22-2006, 10:43 AM   #58
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 699
Re: What he said...

Hi Nords,

I like SG's reply in general; would just add the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
I think he chose to stay in the game by parroting the party line instead of by resigning, a move that would have been even worse for the time and the administration.
As it turned out, he pretty much got blown off by the administration after this anyway, so he didn't really manage to stay in the game after all. Kind of sold his soul for nothing, seems like.
__________________
bpp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-22-2006, 12:28 PM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,375
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
"Energy Independence". Right, and they want to achieve that by coming out against nearly every economically feasible domestic energy project. (i.e. no drilling in Alaska, no drilling off-shore California or Florida, many are against building nukes, and burning coal, etc, etc.).
To some people, energy independence means more strip-mining of coal, windmills off every coastline, and pipeliens as far as the eye can see. To others, it means incentives for conservation and investing in new technologies. I suspect that as many Democrats support nuclear power as Republicans (maybe 1/3 to 1/2).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
What, exactly, did the Dems contribute to this last debate on reforming social security? We know they are against privatization, but what exactly did they come out in favor of?
Raising the cap on income subject to SS taxes. Making sure that SS is there for the next generation (higher priority than, for example, invading and occupying other countries).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
"Providing Fair Elections" - with "fair elections" defined as "elections Democrats win?"
Being much mroe skeptical about programmable voting machines, making sure that the have-less are provided as easy access to vote as the have-mores, checking the bizarre gerrymandering, for example, in Texas. (Yes I know that Democrats have been just as guilty of this--it has to stop!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go
both parties are equal opportunity sleaze balls.
Yes...BUT. The Clintons made, what was it--$100,000 on one land deal? And what did Denny Hastert make on one of his own earmarks to put a highway alongside the land he'd recently bought--over $1,000,000 in profit. For the most part, it's a matter of scale.
__________________
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.
astromeria is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: What he said...
Old 10-22-2006, 03:05 PM   #60
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Re: What he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromeria
Being much mroe skeptical about programmable voting machines, making sure that the have-less are provided as easy access to vote as the have-mores, checking the bizarre gerrymandering, for example, in Texas. (Yes I know that Democrats have been just as guilty of this--it has to stop!)
Voting machine security is an issue that needs to be resolved. I don't think anyone has proven that there has been fraud, but they have proven that it could be done and that is bad enough.

As for gerrymandering, the democrats have certainly done their share and I would be sympathetic to their cries of "foul" when the republicans did it in Texas, if I believed that their solution would be fair rather than just a return to drawing pro-democratic districts. When politicians, of either stripe, decide how to group the electorate it's just an invitation for corruption.
__________________

__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:22 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.