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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-09-2007, 10:03 PM   #21
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Originally Posted by Nords

ADM Fallon is leaving PACOM HQ just in time to help GEN Abizaid figure this out...
Sending an admiral to command CENTCOM would normally cause apoplexy in the Army, but in this case I think there might be some Army GOs who are privately a little relieved. Still, the swapping of traditional service GO/FO GCC billets has Rummy's fingerprints all over it. I'll bet Gates returns to the previous pattern when he's making his own choices from scratch.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-09-2007, 10:05 PM   #22
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

The problem we have is that Iraq is now the form for a sectarian war between the two Muslim denominations. There is no way that Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria will stand back.

Bush uncorked the Genie.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 12:13 AM   #23
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Originally Posted by samclem
- "This fight is too important to lose. Remember Afghanistan under the Taliban? What if the Taliban had oil resources sufficient to buy/build nuclear weapons. We just need a litttle imagination, so let's try this: Imagine 9/11 raised to the kiloton level."
Yeah, play the WMD card again! That'll do the trick :
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 12:24 AM   #24
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
- "This fight is too important to lose. Remember Afghanistan under the Taliban? What if the Taliban had oil resources sufficient to buy/build nuclear weapons. We just need a litttle imagination, so let's try this: Imagine 9/11 raised to the kiloton level. Imagine Iraq under the control of al-Sistani and his pals. Imagine the mad mullahs in Iran cotrolling the oil wealth of southern Iraq."

- "The rule of law cannot thrive in an environment of fear, where police, judges, and government officials fear for their lives and the lives of their family. The brokers of intolerance and hate in that country and elsewhere know this, and have spilled the blood of hundreds of Iraqis to prevent the establishment of a peaceful society where the rights of all Iraqis are protected. Still, thousands in Iraq today are risking their lives to establish a pluralistic society, a society that promises protection of minority rights and freedom from oppression for all Iraqis. These thousands of brave Iraqis are well known to the despots seeking to inflict their particular brand of authoritarian rule over all of Iraq. To walk away from Iraq is to betray the trust of these Iraqis, to doom them, and to forfeit Iraq to the forces of hate and intolerance.

- "The United States cannot build Iraq, and the Iraq's have never asked us to. We can, however, provide greater support to the efforts of Iraqis seeking to help their nation achieve its promise. This will require a committment of resources different than we have provided to date.

(then, go on to describe the simple plan to
- build a non-corrupt, non-sectarian police force and military of sufficient size to suppress the militias
- Ramp up oil production
- equitably share the benefits of oil resources to benefit all Iraqis
- encourage development of an Iraqi civil society
- foster the development of a market economy
- Assure Iraqis have an allegiance to their nation and to the fundamental protection of the rights of their neighbors, regardless of creed, that exceeds their allegiance to their own clan or religious sect
)

It is the portion in green that the Prez and his staff will need to flesh out a little . . . .
Nice post.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 01:11 AM   #25
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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..Imagine Iraq under the control of al-Sistani and his pals. Imagine the mad mullahs in Iran controlling the oil wealth of southern Iraq.
Imagine that if you are Saudi Arabia, Syria or Egypt (mostly Sunni). This could make the wars between Catholic and Protestant Christianity look like high school wrestling matches.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 01:18 AM   #26
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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and will undoubtedly fall into the hands of a dictator more ruthless than Saddam was.
I figure something like this is the most likely outcome, unless we turn the whole place into a posession like American Samoa.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 01:40 AM   #27
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
I'll bet Gates returns to the previous pattern when he's making his own choices from scratch.
Well, no one's named the new PACOM yet. And I can only imagine how the cockroaches are scurrying staff is running around working the issues for the new guy. No doubt with plenty of help, support, and solicitous queries from every office in the Pentagon's E-ring.

I'm glad I'm not hanging around any flag offices to watch the nasty backstabbing knife-fight-in-a-phone-booth thoughtful deliberations spread their ripples on this one.

Glad my spouse's PACOM billet ended last month, and a good family friend retired from there last October. Don't miss this stuff a bit.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 05:45 AM   #28
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I do like Vietnamese food. - Never had Iraqi food!
It's really good! You should try it

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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 07:54 AM   #29
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
That would be a much better strategy than what he will do. What he will do, is propose an increase of troop strength, cementing his legacy at the bottom of the barrel of U.S. Presidents.
Being too hard on the guy, there are plenty of 1 term presidents that were worst:
Carter, LB Johnson come to mind, now if we're talking 2 term presidents, I believe
he is on the bottom.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 08:07 AM   #30
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

Grant was a pretty rotten President, too. But I'm reaching into the way-back machine for that one. But doesn't Nixon count as a two term? I mean, it doesn't get much worse than that!

What puzzles me is all the same arguments proven false during vietnam are being used today. Back then, we were told that if we didn't stop the commies there, all the surrounding countries would fall like dominoes under the red star. We left anyway, and last I checked Japan still hasn't installed "People's Republic" in front of their name. Now it's the same argument re-hashed, if we don't fight them in Iraq then the whole region will fall under their sway and we'll be fighting them on the streets of Peoria. I can just hear Al Quaida now, "Dang, we have tickets booked for D.C. to conduct more terrorist attacks, but since their's fighting in Iraq, I guess we just have to put that on hold. Hope that finished up soon, since everyone knows it's impossible to get on an airplane when there is a war going on!" :P
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 08:14 AM   #31
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

Samclem is right. The only reason we lost Vietnam was the half measures made.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 09:11 AM   #32
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Originally Posted by saluki9
It's really good! You should try it

What do they eat?
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 09:18 AM   #33
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Samclem is right. The only reason we lost Vietnam was the half measures made.
What a convincing argument!!!! I'm sold (not).
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 01:25 PM   #34
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

He should say:

All militias are outlawed. Turn in your weapons in 48 hours or we turn loose the troups to kick a%% and take names.

Shoot at us from a Mosque we level the Mosque too bad so sad.

In Iraq we need to fight this war and not be beholden to some pussy footing JAG officer's PC Rules of Engegement. After all, last time I looked the only rules of engegement our enemy uses is "Kill the Infedel"

Engage the enemy and kill them wherever they reside in the reagion including the training camps in Iran and Syria.

As for Iran dismantle your NUC program within 30 days or most of your conutry will get an instant transformation from sand to glass with US weapons.

The only thing these animals hiding behind the " Religion of Peace" understand is brut force imposed until they decide the pain is not worth it or they are dead.

Never ,never , engage in a conflict unless you are willing to use total overwhelming force to suceed.

As you can tell I'm somewhat to the right of Attilla the Hun. He was just too
liberal for my taste.

Alas the Bush and the US Public at large are not willing to pay the present price to remain free. Should we fail in Iraq we will pay a much greater price in lives and treasure when the battle for Islamic domination of the world is joined again.

As for those who have stood by the current goverment in Iraq we are signing their death warrants. Just as we did to the 3 million people in Southeast Asia we we cut and ran due to congressional failure to honor our committments to our allies in that area. The blood of three million souls is on our hands for cutting and running. How many millions more will have to be sacrificed to the alter of political expediency because we are unwilling to finish the job?
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 01:30 PM   #35
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

I suggest we make a drinking game of it. Everytime he uses terms like "brave," "patriotic," "freedom," "courageous," "democratic," we eat a protein snack, everytime he says, "mistake," "error," "poor plan," "sorry," "my bad," etc. we take a long drink. I think it will be sobering.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 01:37 PM   #36
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Originally Posted by Elderdude
I suggest we make a drinking game of it. Everytime he uses terms like "brave," "patriotic," "freedom," "courageous," "democratic," we eat a protein snack, everytime he says, "mistake," "error," "poor plan," "sorry," "my bad," etc. we take a long drink. I think it will be sobering.
Constipating, too.
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 01:47 PM   #37
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

Interesting responses.

I'm curious. How many of you naysayers voted for this SOB in the first place.

I CAN say that I've been totally consistent!! Hated him in 2000. Hate him in 2007!
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 02:02 PM   #38
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

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Originally Posted by DOG52
What do they eat?
Lot's of stews, lamb, chickpeas, grilled meats, really sweet deserts. On top of that, they make great tea.

I have a good friend who is an Iraqi christian. He's taken me to some family events where I stuff myself like a pig (Which thanks to a general lack of regional demand isn't on the menu)
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 04:46 PM   #39
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

My humble suggestion:

"Many of you expect me to comment on the details of the war in Iraq tonight. But this war is more than a problem in itself. It's a symtom of a cancer that is eating away at the wealth, the happiness, and the noble founding principles of this great country. It's a symptom of our dependence on an oil economy.

We THINK we pay $X or $Y dollars for oil, as measured by cost per barrel. But the TRUE cost is thousands of times greater. It includes the costs of contolling oil producing nations and peoples. It includes the costs of diplomacy, the costs of direct transfers through foreign aid, loans, grants, etc., and the costs of military intervention when these non-military efforts fail.

It includes the cost of guarding ourselves against terrorist attack. (Our lost productivity as we stand in line at airports, every day, year after year, across the country, is but one example.) And it includes the terrible costs we pay when our anti-terrorist measures fail.

Finally, it does unmeasurable but profound damage to our national psyche. It causes us to fight amongst ourselves, and to monitor one another, and to distrust one another. It does violence to our view of ourselves as a nation of fair and decent people.

Taken together these costs are staggering, and they are unacceptable.

Today, I propose that we take the incredible sums of money we are wasting on the Iraq occupation and apply them immediately to a bigger and more important challenge: the transfer of our economy from one based on oil to one based on renewable energies. We will take the same level of funding, motivation, and top-level research capability currently applied to the development of our military technology and apply it to solving the energy problem once and for all. We'll increase wind power, find ways to produce energy from the vast tidal power we enjoy on both coasts, and ramp up solar power. We'll work hard on any other method we can find of producing power safely, cleanly, and without emissions.

By doing so we will break our corrupt ties with oil producing nations throughout the world. We will radically reduce our involvement in oil-rich regions, and save billions of dollars in military expenditures. And we will eliminate the damage caused to our environment and to our peoples through air and water pollution. With enough luck and hard work, we will address the looming danger of global warming before it is too late.

This will be a tremendous effort. But we know we can pull it off. We made a similar effort to fight against tyranny in WWII. Americans mobilized, volunteered, sacrtificed, and contributed to the common good. We pulled together as one, for the betterment of all, and we won the good fight.

We ARE a great nation, but we must continue to prove it by continuing to improve the world and the lives of the people in it. Because that is what great nations do. Please join me in this noble mission.

Thank you and good night."
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow
Old 01-10-2007, 05:12 PM   #40
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Re: What should Bush say tomorrow

Thank you, Caroline.
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