Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-07-2009, 08:53 AM   #61
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by citrine View Post
I don't understand why people are leaving either.....
I'm sure people are always entering and leaving active status on this and other forums.

I have no idea if the trend has increased lately. Possibly the admins have data, though they may not care to share (their right). And maybe it is partially driven by external conditions.

I miss the input of some who left. Others already said all they were going to say 20x over, and I don't miss the noise. But that list would probably be different for different people, and that's what makes it an active forum, not a stale old clique' of high school buddies.

JMO, worth no more than anyone else's.

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-07-2009, 05:27 PM   #62
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBoyd View Post
What is different now? What is missing? What changed? (Seriously)
Well, you could read CFB's last post for starters:
Where is the Bunny???

The board's getting too big. I used to read every post and welcome every new poster, but now there are too many of both to keep track of.

The board is too slow. It used to run on an older version of discussion-board software that was fast and straightforward. It didn't have some of the bells & whistles that are available with vBulletin, but then with a smaller number of members most of those features weren't necessary. Now that vBulletin seems to be working better, the board is still too slow. Before the URL loads, the E-R.org server seems to waste a few seconds talking to Google Adsense's server to try to download ads that my browser is going to block anyway. The result is a lot of time wasted waiting for a page to start loading, and then waiting for it to finish loading. Repeat for every post.

E-R.org used to be harder to find, and that was a good thing. The people who found the board tended to be people who wanted to be here and wanted to learn something about ER. Today's search-engine optimization is driving huge herds of others to the board. That includes a host of trolls & spammers who know that they can depend on someone in this huge user population to rise to their bate/bait. SEO also attracts herds of people who don't care about ER. Every week or two we get a post from a veteran who's facing "military early retirement". Google that phrase (including the quotes) and see why they end up here. Even with that FAQ they still post their quandary seeking help.

The board's purpose isn't aligned with its members. This URL was founded years ago because TMF started charging for access to its ER discussion board-- they cared more about money than their membership. Dory started this board for free, although contributions were gratefully accepted. Note that all the problems mentioned in the last four paragraphs have a common issue: the pursuit of revenue. Everything that we members might prefer (a smaller community, faster response, less unfavorable attention) is in direct conflict with the higher priority of driving huge herds of eyeballs to the pages in the hope of getting a few clicks.

Note that the longer one is a member here, the less valuable one becomes. We remember the way things were instead of accepting the way things are. Our attempts to preserve the status quo become reactionary obstructions to progress. Our impatience with crowds of the lost, the trolls, and the spammers becomes intolerance. Our impatience with new posters who don't read the FAQs becomes hostility. Our lack of interest in discussing the FAQ archive subjects becomes curmudgeonly. And long-time members don't click on ads, nor do they submit silently (let alone cooperatively) to change.

I used to think that this board's problem need fixing, but I no longer feel obligated to be the one doing the fixing. The board could be better than it is now, but those improvements are fundamentally incompatible with a profit motive. I've also found other discussion boards to handle most of the subjects that I'm interested in. I return to this board for its members who I've learned have the skill, experience, & wisdom to answer financial questions in one stop. They're still able to take care of ER topics in spite of all the obstacles, and they're not necessarily available on those other boards. But if this place imploded then I'd probably be able to find what I seek on one of the other ER boards, and I'd be joined shortly afterward by the core of this board's membership about whom I care.

Let Darwin decide. I think that this board could keep going indefinitely, but it wouldn't take much to knock it off the perch. Morningstar's Vanguard Diehards discussion board kept on going for months despite M*'s slow servers, ad-bloated pages, and mismanagement-- and perhaps only because of the efforts of a dedicated core of posters. However when H0cus showed up and M* didn't manage the issue (despite dozens of warnings, including a few from me) then it was the last straw for the significant minority of the board's population. They went off to found Bogleheads, which has become far better than it ever could have been under M*'s management. That sort of single point of failure is the only thing separating this board from obsolescence and irrelevance.

To see what I'm describing, take a look at those other boards I mentioned a few posts back. It might also be possible to find an earlier version of this board (say, from 2005 or 2006) cached in Google or in some other Internet time machine. To see a fast ad-free vBulletin board that tolerates no fools, let alone trolls or spammers, you could go to HawaiiThreads.com.

Seriously. But hey, you asked the question.
__________________

__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 05:46 PM   #63
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,115
I take it surfing conditions suck, eh?
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 06:22 PM   #64
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
I was worrying that, eventually, everyone would leave and not tell me.

Oh that would be very sad. I'd hate to log on here some day and find out that everyone had moved on without me. Sort of like the "empty nest" for ERs! I really appreciate the interesting information and discussions on this forum, esp about finances. I have no one to talk to about the economy or financial stuff.
__________________
Zoocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 06:49 PM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Ok so maybe it isn't near Tonganoxie, KS or the yet to be found yellow brick road.

Ya know - all good things come to an end - what with the clock ticking and all - after 15 years of ER - I'm 65 with Social Security, Medicare.

It kinda sucks being just plain ordinary retired.

heh heh heh - ? dust off the curmudgeon certificate and work on grumpy perhaps?
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 07:16 PM   #66
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
BunsGettingFirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,502
Is the board really that much slower than 4-5 years ago? I don't notice. Then again, I'm not using ad blocking software, so maybe I get a different experience. When I found the board, I was just glad that found the board because I just wanted to find out was I the only one besides Dilbert who found work ridiculous at times.

Thank god I don't have to mod on this forum. (Actually I have never been invited, but I would have gracefully declined. Cough.) I can see how answering the same old questions can get old. I know I got tired of saying, "Yes, those calfs and buns are real."
__________________
BunsGettingFirm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 07:24 PM   #67
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 310
Is Lazy gone?
__________________
shoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 07:27 PM   #68
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I take it surfing conditions suck, eh?
Still. Rainy, cold, windy, and flat.

Spent three hours in the rental this morning fixing kitchen cabinets (just a few years old, damn tenants) and planning the next upgrade to the bathroom cabinets (30 years old and way overdue). Oh, and the shower faucet decided to start leaking. It must have a "tenant proximity" feature...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 08:59 PM   #69
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Purron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoe View Post
Is Lazy gone?
I have not seen Lazy post here in a long time. No farewell message I'm aware of. Sure do miss him
__________________
I purr therefore I am.
Purron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 09:49 PM   #70
Moderator Emeritus
CuppaJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,866
Haven't seen Chinaco around for a while. Miss him, he's the one who gave the great suggestion that after a few weeks as a mod. I might want to change my name to CuppaBooze. Nah, not yet, I'll just chug it.

Cheers, Chinaco!

Where's that hiccup smilie? It's Saturday night!!
__________________
CuppaJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 11:42 PM   #71
Recycles dryer sheets
Steve O's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 291
Radders board is good, but there's not much traffic there...

You guys here gave the inspiration to pull the pin at 39 and I have NO REGRETS!!!

I plan on being here a long time
__________________
Steve O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 08:30 AM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
I remember this thread. I gave up on it much too soon apparently, -- not, however, before your tirade or CFB's "explanation." I didn't recognize the seriousness of the situation even though Dex's similiar behavior around the same time had concerned me greatly. (In fact, when Dex started this thread my great fear was we were heading down the same path.)

In any event, you now know my position on this subject. It would be a great loss if you were to pick up your toys and stomp off. Your recent brilliantly insightful "Fog of Work" post is but a small sample of what you bring to the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
The board's getting too big. I used to read every post and welcome every new poster, but now there are too many of both to keep track of.
Yeah, its like Yogi Berra said; "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded." I don't know how that can be solved. Certainly, it is too late for any birth control methods. Mr. Berra also said, "We have all passed a lot of water since then." The only thing one can do now is make personal adjustments to the situation.

I do understand how complicated complex life has become. My first "personal" computer was a Timex-Sinclair with those Chicklet keys and IIRC 4bits of memory in the early 80's. I was one of the first members of Compuserve (had a very low user number) and spent many an hour on numerous BBs. Life was so simple then. Today, I get up around 4:00am and start my day by reading 20 newspapers (including, BTW, the Star-Bulletin and the Advertiser). I next read the posts on 138 RSS feeds (including, BTW, the HawaiiThreads one -- along with similar ones in other major cities). In addition, I get around 150 personal e-mails a day from various pursuits. I also bake a loaf of bread every morning (granted it is a Bread Machine but it does take about an hour of "hands on" time. I am, also, the cook around here so from 4-6:00 PM is spent in the kitchen or at the table -- this is also the time that I get my television news fix. My day abruptly ends at 10:00 PM every night without fail. On top of all that I use several news aggregators (Google news, Topix, and the NYTimes etc.) on all the time. Ah, for life to be simple again.

My routine with this particular forum (well, there is a problem currently but in an ideal world) is to check the RSS feed for new threads and subscribe to those (few) that interest me or I feel I can contribute to. I then read only those posts that are identified (by e-mail notification) as new in the subscribed threads. Thus spending relatively little, but very productive time. (yeah, because I graze, it is easy to miss things -- as the above referenced thread proved.) BTW, I periodically visit Raddr's website -- twice last year -- but I have problems with the technical side. I just checked and there were 170 unread messages on 7 pages for me to read. Yeah, like that's going to happen. There is no way to use the routine as described above.

It helps that I have three computers going all the time, each with its own set of tasks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
The board is too slow. It used to run on an older version of discussion-board software that was fast and straightforward. It didn't have some of the bells & whistles that are available with vBulletin, but then with a smaller number of members most of those features weren't necessary. Now that vBulletin seems to be working better, the board is still too slow. Before the URL loads, the E-R.org server seems to waste a few seconds talking to Google Adsense's server to try to download ads that my browser is going to block anyway. The result is a lot of time wasted waiting for a page to start loading, and then waiting for it to finish loading. Repeat for every post.
I haven't noticed that. This board is responsive to my commands... faster than some others. I don't know if the number of ads are the problem -- although, I am sure, any drag on the bandwidth is important. How modern is your equipment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
E-R.org used to be harder to find, and that was a good thing. The people who found the board tended to be people who wanted to be here and wanted to learn something about ER. Today's search-engine optimization is driving huge herds of others to the board. That includes a host of trolls & spammers who know that they can depend on someone in this huge user population to rise to their bate/bait. SEO also attracts herds of people who don't care about ER. Every week or two we get a post from a veteran who's facing "military early retirement". Google that phrase (including the quotes) and see why they end up here. Even with that FAQ they still post their quandary seeking help.
Yeah, that's the same thing that the Native Americans say (or in your case the real Hawaiians). And now, the Europeans have the same complaint about those pesky Mexicans sneaking across the border in the middle of the night. Maybe, you should write down the exact qualifications necessary to enter these hollowed grounds and that will keep us interlopers out -- who knows, it might work this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
The board's purpose isn't aligned with its members. This URL was founded years ago because TMF started charging for access to its ER discussion board-- they cared more about money than their membership. Dory started this board for free, although contributions were gratefully accepted. Note that all the problems mentioned in the last four paragraphs have a common issue: the pursuit of revenue. Everything that we members might prefer (a smaller community, faster response, less unfavorable attention) is in direct conflict with the higher priority of driving huge herds of eyeballs to the pages in the hope of getting a few clicks.
And yet this is one of the most active on the Web. Who's purpose are you referring to? It seems (to me) to serve most of the participants quite well. If you are referring to Andy R's purpose, I hope you are correct. That he would have a profit motive is (IMHO) an honorable trait -- certainly a socially acceptable one. That it would take money to insure the longevity and (eh...) growth of this form doesn't surprise me. I don't, however, see how his purpose conflicts with my use of this board. In fact, had you not pointed it out, I would not have thought about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords View Post
Note that the longer one is a member here, the less valuable one becomes. We remember the way things were instead of accepting the way things are. Our attempts to preserve the status quo become reactionary obstructions to progress.
Well, yes and no. No, you don't become less valuable with age -- quite the contrary. Yes, without adapting to a current situation, one becomes an obstruction. It is good (I suppose) to have a clear view of the future and a definite idea of how things are "supposed" to be but... what is the military saying, "the best of plans never survive first contact with the enemy"? (or something like that.)

I am going to have to stop here because I have run out of time to proceed.

I do hope you mellow out because, as I said earlier, you are a precious resource that would be a shame to waste.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 09:28 AM   #73
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
RonBoyd, thanks for your response in #72.

It channels my thinking so accurately and completely, right down to that exact Yogi quote on the crowded restaurant that no one goes to, that I'm not going to add a thing at this time.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 11:08 AM   #74
gone traveling
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
RonBoyd, thanks for your response in #72.

It channels my thinking so accurately and completely, right down to that exact Yogi quote on the crowded restaurant that no one goes to, that I'm not going to add a thing at this time.

-ERD50
Ditto, from this newbie/ spammer /troller
__________________
Westernskies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 04:05 PM   #75
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7,409
Hmmmm -

We're all being serious here. Right? .

heh heh heh - . As for me - I have also ER'd from deep thought in any form. .

So trend spotter wise - when is rental real estate gonna make a comeback as a path to ER?
__________________
unclemick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 04:39 PM   #76
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemick View Post
So trend spotter wise - when is rental real estate gonna make a comeback as a path to ER?
Tomorrow.
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2009, 11:03 PM   #77
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,617
Thanks for the "resource" words-- I'll take them as a compliment. I was going to make a superficial comment about how you spend your time, but the busyness of your post probably makes that clear enough already.

I fear you misunderstand my point, although I'm not sure that you allow yourself to reflect on my comments. I'm not complaining about how complicated life has become or how exclusive the club membership should be. And I'm not ranting-- you raised the question and I answered it. If someone wants to hear how to improve this board, then I have an opinion.

It doesn't take much money-- if any-- to run a discussion board, as evidenced by Greaney and Raddr and probably many others. It does take more money to have the processing power and bandwidth to support the huge crowd of posters necessary to gain ad revenue. But don't we complain all the time about people's credibility? The stockbrokers and financial advisors who aren't rich from their stock picks and their advice? The retirement authors who aren't retired? The real estate gurus who make more money from "seminars" than from rent checks or flipping?

So why would we want to patronize an ER board whose owner depends on our revenue to support his quest for ER? If the top 25 posters on this board (by whatever ER metric you define "top") suddenly moved over to Greaney's or Raddr's board, would the rest of the populace stay here? When I have a question to ask or a project to work on, I come here because many of the people who were here when Dory was running the show are still here to offer their advice & support. They're not over at Raddr's board and hardly anyone is over at Greaney's (another management issue). Sure, more "precious resources" are welcome on this board, but it's become very hard to pick 'em out from the crowds.

I'm saying that this board, compared to the way it used to be and the way that other ER boards still are, has become too big and too crowded and too slow. It's not my equipment-- it's this board. It's also attracting people who have no interest in ER but who muddy the waters with spamming & trolling. (We never used to have veterans coming here for help with their medical issues.) IMO this board bears a strong resemblance to ER boards that are already dying or dead. I don't agree that "personal adjustments" are the answer to the situation any more than I would claim that it's appropriate to bend over and submit to the inevitable. "Hollowed ground" indeed. Instead I'll point out what's wrong and what could be improved. And when this board collapses of its own overloaded infrastructure, I'll be waiting over at Raddr's board for the rest of the crowd to join us. As the others whose opinions I value are spending less time on this board, so am I.

I read a story the other day, perhaps apocryphal, about J.D. Salinger being asked why he didn't write any more. His response was that he still wrote-- every day-- but he no longer bothered to publish. Maybe other valuable ER contributors will stay on this board or new ones will take their place, but it's hard to tell that retention is a management priority. Meanwhile there are other places to write without having to endure publishing's attendant hassles. I'm happy to talk to one or two people about ER when I don't have to deal with noisy distractions.

And if a "precious resource" left this board… how in the world would you ever find the time to notice?

"Mellow out"… *snort*. Judging from what you do all day, I'm not sure you have much credibility to demonstrate by that advice.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2009, 06:19 AM   #78
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Nords,

I am sorry.

And even more than that if I am a "last straw."

Ron
__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2009, 08:35 AM   #79
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,282
Wow, I guess there is no point in going through a play-by-play on this.

Nords, if a for-profit forum is so at odds with everything that you want in a forum, the answer has been hanging around like the 800 pound gorilla in the room, and no one has wanted to say it:

Go start your own forum. Design it to fit your needs. It'll be perfect for you. You remind me of the man standing in the rain without a raincoat or umbrella, complaining of the rain instead of going inside where it is dry and warm.

Like the line from the Eagles song " so often times it seems, we live our lives in chains, and we never realize we hold the key...."

And I'll take this opportunity to say THANK YOU to Andy and his staff and the mods for their efforts in this forum. It seems to be doing a pretty good job of meeting the needs of some of us, and I for one, am grateful for that. It is a valuable resource to me. So, THANKS.

And if I happen to see an occasional post from some veteran asking about medical information ( I can't recall more than about two of those?), well, that is certainly not going to ruin my day or my week. It's tough for me to imagine it would be that upsetting to anyone else either. Good luck in keeping any forum 100% free of distractions.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2009, 08:51 AM   #80
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RonBoyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
And I'll take this opportunity to say THANK YOU to Andy and his staff and the mods for their efforts in this forum. It seems to be doing a pretty good job of meeting the needs of some of us, and I for one, am grateful for that. It is a valuable resource to me. So, THANKS.
I second that emotion. And will just add that this board is such a valuable resource because it is not narrowly focused. The fact that ALL aspects of ER/R life is fair game makes it priceless. (well.. the current "politics" policy is at odds with this and although I am not interested in those discussions, the banishment is, IMHO, wrong.) There is, simply put, nothing like it anywhere else and the quality of the participants is "icing on the cake."
__________________

__________________
"It's tough to make predictions, especially when it involves the future." ~Attributed to many
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." ~(perhaps by) Yogi Berra
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."~ Lau tzu
RonBoyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Megacorp retirement plan changes - trends of the future? bssc FIRE and Money 13 05-20-2007 08:39 PM
The official Early-Retirement.org vehicle? Nords Other topics 0 08-19-2005 11:27 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:01 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.