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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 01:07 PM   #21
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

All that exercise from grinding flax seeds...it must help.
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 01:12 PM   #22
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUM
All my life I've avoided doctors. Last time I spent a night in the hospital was at birth. Prior to ER I went for a checkup. Weight was a bit high. BP and blood work was on the high end of normal.

Now the doc is calling me to come in wants me on statins and water pills. I figure that if I drop the 10 - 15 lbs. That should do it. DW says take the pills.

BUM
Well, generally your doc will dispense better medical advice than an ER board, but it's your call

Can you give us a breakdown of your numbers? * *Some docs are still under the misconception that a high total cholesterol count is bad. * *John Galt is a perfect example where that is not the case. * *He has a high total count, but his HDL is very high, and he has no family history of CHD. * *Those last two factors are strong *contra* indicators of CHD.

If you also have high triglycerides, I would recommend you look into low-carb diets. * *There is a direct correlation between high TriG, high LDL, and carb intake. * *Look up "metabolic syndrome" if your numbers indicate high TriG and high LDL.
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 03:41 PM   #23
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

I have hi triglicerides, so much so that it's wieghted value pushed my total cholesterol numbers up from 170 (what it would be if tris were at teh top of the normal range) to 245! Since that test I've dropped 50 lbs. and cut the sugar/booze intake, need to get retested.
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 05:09 PM   #24
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Grand Banks said

Quote:
My dad discovered something interesting.* His doc kept telling him he had high BP and he wanted to put him on medication.* So my dad got his own BP machine and noticed that it wasnt high at all.* Next time at the doctors, high again.* So he took his own machine with him to the hospital, and it was high with his machine.

Turns out his BP was only high when he went to the doctor.* Showing his log of daily BP to the doc, the doc said "oh, then nevermind!".
IIRC, the phenomena that you described is called "white coat hypertension".* Your father's decision to purchase his own blood pressure monitor was a wise decision.

Mike

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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 07:49 PM   #25
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Listen, most statins are safe (drug rep here).

The most safe are Zocor and Zetia (Zetia does not go through the liver) and the combo - Vytorin.

Next is Lipitor.

Coming up last is Crestor, which causes lots of liver problems.
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 07:52 PM   #26
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
Listen, most statins are safe (drug rep here).

The most safe are Zocor and Zetia (Zetia does not go through the liver) and the combo - Vytorin.

Next is Lipitor.

Coming up last is Crestor, which causes lots of liver problems.
Sorry, sorry ... Crestor is just not proven as safe as Lipitor and Zocor.
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 10:17 PM   #27
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

I am not sure what lowered my numbers.
but
Jan 2001 I weighed 220 lbs cholesterol = 256, triglycerides =300
Aug 2001 I weighed 200 lbs cholesterol = 160, triglycerides =49

I began weighlifing so I probably lost 20 to 25 lbs of fat and gained 5 to 10lbs of muscle. I stopped eating a ton of free cream cheese and bagel I got at the office.
Began eating oatmeal daily and lots of raw garlic and onion. I luv the stuff so it was easy.

Last med exam
Nov 2004 I weighed 180 lbs cholesterol = 148, triglycerides =42

Although I cut back on eggs originally, I am now eating 9 eggs a week again.

I cannot be sure which of the above helped to lower my cholesterol and triglycerides.

Maybe I just willed it.

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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 10:23 PM   #28
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Permanently Unemployed
I stopped eating a* ton of free cream cheese and bagel I got at the office.
My money is on the bagels.* *I love them, but they are evil.

Eggs are fine.* *Mostly protein.* *Your serum cholesterol is mostly made by your liver -- it's not the amount of cholesterol in your food that matters so much.
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-27-2005, 10:39 PM   #29
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
Listen, most statins are safe (drug rep here).
Is that anything like "I'm from the government, i'm here to help you"?
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-28-2005, 06:00 AM   #30
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
My money is on the bagels.* *I love them, but they are evil.

Eggs are fine.* *Mostly protein.* *Your serum cholesterol is mostly made by your liver -- it's not the amount of cholesterol in your food that matters so much.
Hey Wab, if I live a while longer maybe it will be due to your diet.
Interesting? I used to be guilty every time I ate an egg. Thanks to
you I now suffer no angst. As far as the other stuff you suggested I avoid (juices, bread , rice, pasta, potatos) it's been fairly easy,
except for the sugar. Need a little sugar fix every now and then.
Even the bagels are history, and I used to love bagels. When I was
traveling sometimes I would start every day with Starbucks and a
bagel with cream cheese. Yummy! Now I have the cheese and the Starbucks
and throw the bagel away

JG
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-28-2005, 06:06 AM   #31
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Permanently Unemployed
I am not sure what lowered my numbers.
but
Jan 2001* I weighed 220 lbs cholesterol = 256, triglycerides =300
Aug 2001 I weighed 200 lbs* cholesterol = 160, triglycerides =49

I began weighlifing so I probably lost 20 to 25 lbs of fat and gained 5 to 10lbs of muscle. I stopped eating a* ton of free cream cheese and bagel I got at the office.
Began eating oatmeal daily and lots of raw garlic and onion. I luv the stuff so it was easy.

Last med exam
Nov 2004 I weighed 180 lbs* cholesterol = 148, triglycerides =42

Although I cut back on eggs originally, I am now eating 9 eggs a week again.

I cannot be sure which of the above helped to lower my cholesterol and triglycerides.

Maybe I just willed it.

Man, that's a huge drop in a short time. I don't think you "willed it". Whatever one man can do another can do.
I am not lifting weights though. Not ever!

JG
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-28-2005, 06:27 AM   #32
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
Well, generally your doc will dispense better medical advice than an ER board, but it's your call

Can you give us a breakdown of your numbers? Some docs are still under the misconception that a high total cholesterol count is bad. John Galt is a perfect example where that is not the case. He has a high total count, but his HDL is very high, and he has no family history of CHD. Those last two factors are strong *contra* indicators of CHD.

If you also have high triglycerides, I would recommend you look into low-carb diets. There is a direct correlation between high TriG, high LDL, and carb intake. Look up "metabolic syndrome" if your numbers indicate high TriG and high LDL.
Hi Wab,
I was hoping you'd weigh in. These numbers are from last year.
Choles. 286
LDL 181
HDL 81
Trigly 118
Electro Normal

New numbers avail next week. Maybe along with new perscriptions.


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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-28-2005, 06:36 AM   #33
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
Listen, most statins are safe (drug rep here).

Sparky,

Drug rep, eh? When can you bring in lunch for the board? Ate a lot of drug rep Penne ala vodka in the day. Hey, wait a minute! DOH! You taunt-a me with the food, get my numbers all jacked up then sell me the drugs to get the numbers back under control!

Pretty slick. Wish I had thought of it myself.

BUM :P
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-28-2005, 07:05 PM   #34
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUM
Hi Wab,
I was hoping you'd weigh in. These numbers are from last year.
Choles. 286
LDL* *181
HDL* * *81
Trigly* 118
Electro Normal

New numbers avail next week. Maybe along with new perscriptions.*
I'm no expert -- I just read up on this stuff after my own doc raised a red flag on my lipid profile a while back.

First, I'm surprised that your doc is already talking about giving you statins without seeing a recent lipid profile.* * But as far as your numbers from last year go:

Total: 286 is considered high (they want you below 200)
LDL: 181 is considered high (which is why your total is high), they want this below 130 for most people.
TriG: 118 is normal (anything below 150 is considered normal)
HDL: 81 is considered to be FANTASTIC (anything above 60 is helpful)

It's people like you (and John Galt) with high HDL that made docs reconsider looking just at LDL and total cholesterol.* *They came up with a ratio of total / HDL just for your type of profile.

A ratio of 3.5 or lower is considered IDEAL.* *Yours is 3.5.

I'm sure your doc is considering other risk factors, but if my doc recommended drugs to me, I'd really want to understand what was going on with my body and what the drug's mechanism of action was.* * If he's just going by your lipid profile and you have no other risk factors, I'd either get a second opinion or ask for more discriminating blood tests (e.g., they can get a breakdown of your LDL, only some types of which are bad).
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 05-28-2005, 07:23 PM   #35
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabmester
I'm no expert -- I just read up on this stuff after my own doc raised a red flag on my lipid profile a while back.

First, I'm surprised that your doc is already talking about giving you statins without seeing a recent lipid profile.* * But as far as your numbers from last year go:

Total: 286 is considered high (they want you below 200)
LDL: 181 is considered high (which is why your total is high), they want this below 130 for most people.
TriG: 118 is normal (anything below 150 is considered normal)
HDL: 81 is considered to be FANTASTIC (anything above 60 is helpful)

It's people like you (and John Galt) with high HDL that made docs reconsider looking just at LDL and total cholesterol.* *They came up with a ratio of total / HDL just for your type of profile.

A ratio of 3.5 or lower is considered IDEAL.* *Yours is 3.5.

I'm sure your doc is considering other risk factors, but if my doc recommended drugs to me, I'd really want to understand what was going on with my body and what the drug's mechanism of action was.* * If he's just going by your lipid profile and you have no other risk factors, I'd either get a second opinion or ask for more discriminating blood tests (e.g., they can get a breakdown of your LDL, only some types of which are bad).
Even when my total score peaked at 301, the place where I get my
routine physicals only rated my "risk" as "average".

JG
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 06-01-2005, 08:29 PM   #36
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Thanks Wab,

2005 physical is sked for Tuesday. We'll see what the new numbers look like.



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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 06-02-2005, 12:21 AM   #37
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

The determinates of heart disease are:
1. Family history of heart disease
2. Lipid profile
3, Nicotine in the blood
4. High blood pessure
5. Diabetes

and now a sixth.. underlying silent inflammation of the* coronary arteries which many doctors are now measuring as part of the heart check by getting an "hs-CRP"

All doctors that regulatly make decsions on treatment are aware of these 6 causes and weigh all together when making a decision to suggest active treatment.* With respect to lipids, we now know the lower the better and medicine has not been agressive enough in the past especially with these great new statin meds.* Both triglycerides and cholesterol is important in the plaque formation.* But more specifically the cholesterol componet LDL is the culpret.* HDL "the good cholesterol" can be considered the dump trucks carrying away the plaque while LDL is in fact the major part of the plaque.* You want the LDL as low as possible and HDL as high as possible.

The decision to treat looks at all these above six parameters, not just one or two alone.* Other considerations such as insurance coverage to buy the drugs or any other disease state such as diabetes affects the decision.* No doubt diet and weight loss are beneficial, not just in dyslipidemias but when this is not successful, meds should be considered.*

In my opinion these are great meds.* Cardiologist feel we are not being aggressive enough and many can be found taking them even in the face of normal values as it is now accepted that "the lower the better'* *My lipid profile on no meds is wonderfully low.* Even in spite of this, I take a low dose statin and Zetia.* I can assure this is the trend and many heart specialists accept the same belief.

Sailaway
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 06-02-2005, 04:05 AM   #38
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Thanks Sailaway. I am looking forward to Pfizer's new HDL raising drug coming onto the market. The Lipitor lowers my LDL to acceptable parameters, but my HDL is still a bit low. My doctor will probably put me on torcetrapib to complement my current atorvastatin, if it passes its clinical trials.
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 06-02-2005, 02:30 PM   #39
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

I've seen studies that show that there is no difference in "total mortality" for statin users vs. non statin users.* They have a slightly lower CHD risk, but die of other things.* Dead is dead as far as I can tell, so I'll take my chances & avoid the serious potential side effects...liver problems, cognitive defects, muscle pain/weakness, etc.*

I wonder if it ever dawned on the geniuses in the medical community that your body produces cholesterol for a reason and that artificially lowering it could be deleterious to your overall health.* *We'll see, as we're conducting long term experiments on millions of statin users.
You have been warned!*
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?
Old 06-02-2005, 03:04 PM   #40
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Re: Who takes statins? Which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOG50
Please do give us your test results when they come back. I would love to use something natural if it works.
Just got preliminary results. Have to discuss with the doc, but here they are.

Last Year's lab results Most recent lab results
LDL.............139 140
hdl...............59 72
Triglyceride..98 67
Total...........218 225

So, flax seed or not, 200-225 seems to be my cholesterol level. Since we like garlic, olive oil, fish, salads, etc. and seldom eat red meat and since I exercise 7 days a week (almost without fail), I'd guess that without drug intervention, that it's in the genes. Lipitor hurts my liver. We'll see what the doc says. It would really urinate me off to have a heart attack after all this work. Of course, it's happened to other exercise enthusiasts (like Jim Fixx) before.
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