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$90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 04:14 PM   #1
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$90 per day aint hay

I just figured my gross payments per day, over the last 8 months. $91 dollars.

That includes everything but income tax, and is for me alone. I own my house, so no mortgage payment is included. Also, I own my car, so I list only what I spent on gas and upkeep. There are no accruals or sinking funds- this is just cash out the door. During these 8 months I didn't have any large, unusual expenses.

The $91 includes $13 credit card debt service, $6 drum and other lessons, and $15 medical insurance. Maybe $3 per day of musical and other hobby expenses. The rest is food, drink, entertainment, gas and Amazon. I have been using the library a lot more, so I hope Mr. Bezos will get less out of me going forward.

Overall, I don't feel ecstatic about this, but OTOH it could be a lot worse. Having fun can be costly. A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou. None of it free.

Mikey
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 04:20 PM   #2
 
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

My gosh Mikey, $91.00 per day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't see how we could spend that much for 2 of us and 4 dogs. (Well maybe we could but still...........)
That kind of spending would kill us pretty fast.

John Galt
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 05:13 PM   #3
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Quote:
My gosh Mikey, $91.00 per day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't see how we could spend that much for 2 of us and 4 dogs.

Interesting that you mentioned dogs. I have been wondering how the frugalists on this board handle their dogs. I have an 80# dog.

He costs (per month):
$40 feed
$15 Advantage Flea meds
$5 Immunizations and License
$10 for grooming I can't do.

In addition,
$800 for recent vet bills and meds. And there isn't anything seriously wrong with him-some tumors that turned out to be benign, and then some infections and complications from the surgery.

Essentially he costs >$2 per day, unless he happens to have a problem. Then he costs a whole lot more. Your dogs must know something that my dog does not know.

Mikey
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 05:25 PM   #4
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

I pay about a buck a day per dog for food. I havent figured it out for the cats but off the top of my head about a buck a day for three cats food.

I buy Revolution for both the dogs and cats from an australian web site for a lot less than I can buy it in the states. That pretty much finishes off most parasites from worms to fleas in the cats and everything except intestinal worms in the dogs, but they bundle the revolution with a wormer. No prescription required.

Thats it except for the rabies shots and licenses, which are about $25 and $6 a year respectively. I do most of my own vetting given a lot of experience with both dogs and cats. And knowledge gleaned from an ex live in girlfriend who was a vet
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 05:46 PM   #5
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

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I pay about a buck a day per dog for food. *

I am only spending about 38 cents a day for dog food for a 55 lb. senior dog. I have found - paradoxically - that the expensive food is really cheaper. It has a lot more nutrition and less filler. A 40 lb sack of good quality dog food costs $23.00 on sale, and lasts me two months.

That said, I guess the dog is my cheapest vice. I am still spending more than $90/day. And I thought I was frugal! I average between $85-$100. But I'm still paying the cursed mortgage, for now. However, as I am not-yet ER I don't have the health insurance cost either.
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 06:08 PM   #6
 
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Quote:
My gosh Mikey, $91.00 per day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't see how we could spend that much for 2 of us and *4 dogs. *(Well maybe we could but still...........)
That kind of spending would kill us pretty fast.

John Galt
Well, the 2 of us have averaged over $135 per day for the last 2 years. This is with house, cars paid for. Does not include property taxes of $6K per year though. We could ratchet down to half of that with no problem though.

Like I'm sitting in a beachfront Hotel overlooking Mackinac Island Michigan right now. Everthing is perfect except for the weather. 50 degrees and raining
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 06:16 PM   #7
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

A false economy many people dont "get".

I pay $28 a 40lb bag for Canidae, and I get a free bag every 12. The two dogs go through a bag every 4-5 weeks, so 11 bags a year @ 28 a bag / 365 days a year / 2 = 42c per dog per day. I give them a little of the Canidae canned dog food mixed with their dry in the morning, so thats another 25c a day. Throw in a canidae biscuit or two and i'm up to a buck.

They eat about half as much of this food, which isnt packed with corn, wheat and soy fillers like cheap foods are. Poop less. Costs less.

What screws up some people is that many supposed "premium" foods arent much different from Alpo. Science Diet, Eukanuba and such arent much different. So they try what the vet sells or the "top of the line" from the local pet store and dont see any difference. Perhaps its the fact that the company that makes science diet funds the vet text book printing, gives them the books for free, and lets them stock the food at no charge that results in that funny contradiction...

After a year of evaluating dog foods, I found the costco lamb and rice "no corn formula" to be ok for $16 a bag, nutro's "natural choice" to be good and widely available for $25-30 a bag, Canidae to be very good for $28-30 a bag, and Solid Gold to be excellent if you want to fork over $35-38 a bag.

I decided that clean meat meals, rice and oatmeal beat animal byproducts, corn and wheat mixed with propylene glycol, sugar and food coloring. Especially at the same price per day.
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 06:17 PM   #8
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Had a great whitefish meal in the Mackinac area 4 years ago. Absolutely superb! :P
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Re: Off topic:  vet bills
Old 07-06-2004, 06:28 PM   #9
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Re: Off topic:  vet bills


Regarding vet bills:

When my daughter was 7, her ($6) hamster got sick. We paid $20 for antibiotics. A week later--the hamster's not getting better. Back to the vet. He examined the hamster and determined that she likely had endometriosis. "This hamster needs a hysterectomy."

We're all in the room (crying daughter, spouse, me, and the vet), and I ask tactfully how much a procedure like that might cost. Four hundred dollars. More tears.

Don't ask me how, but somehow that vet actually performed the surgery (of some kind). Tiniest stitches that I ever saw. If I ever need more cutting done on myself, I think I'd like him to do it.

Anyway, the hamster died a week later. But--I think the vet bought a new boat.

What I learned: Buy a hamster with nondescript markings (e.g a pure white one). Take care of all "issues" while children are at school. She might eventually wonder how her hamster has lived to be 10 years old, but that's something that can be handled later . . .
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 06:34 PM   #10
 
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Buy a rabbit. If it dies you can eat it.

John Galt
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 10:24 PM   #11
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Quote:
Buy a rabbit. *If it dies you can eat it.

John Galt
I suppose you could eat a hamster too. I know there are places in the Andes where guinea pigs are considered a delicacy.
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 11:24 PM   #12
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Quote:
I pay about a buck a day per dog for food. *I havent figured it out for the cats but off the top of my head about a buck a day for three cats food.

I buy Revolution for both the dogs and cats from an australian web site for a lot less than I can buy it in the states. *That pretty much finishes off most parasites from worms to fleas in the cats and everything except intestinal worms in the dogs, but they bundle the revolution with a wormer. *No prescription required.

Thats it except for the rabies shots and licenses, which are about $25 and $6 a year respectively. *I do most of my own vetting given a lot of experience with both dogs and cats. *And knowledge gleaned from an ex live in girlfriend who was a vet
Could you provide us with a link to the australian web site? Will they ship the pills to the states?

intercst
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-06-2004, 11:54 PM   #13
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

I've bought from petshed and petdirect, and heard good things about "equine megastore". Both petshed and petdirect shipped quickly, at reasonable cost. The products were in original packaging, factory shrinkwrapped, and of current manufacture with expiration dates at least a year or more away. Both sites will quote you prices in australian and US dollars, but the end price is whatever exchange rate your credit card company manages. In my case it was slightly better than the quoted price.

The revolution packs I bought also had "vet extra" packets of prescription wormer inside the shrink wrap, intended for separate sale. No extra charge.

If you want to go the prescription route, there are some stores in canada with cheaper prices and shipping, but not by a lot.

I like the Revolution. If you have a dog or cat with exceptionally thick fur, it can be troublesome to apply. Its a tube with about 10-20 drops of liquid in it and needs to be applied to the skin at the back of the neck. One of my dogs has very thick fur and is very curious about what I'm doing back there, so he wont stay still. He's challenging. The others are easy. Given its broad spectrum effects to almost all internal and external parasites, and the research on it showing very low rates of problems and virtually no chance of overdosing, I'll stick with it over stuff like frontline or heartguard.

My dad came up with a good line last month when he was here while I was applying it to the various critters. Looked at my wife and said "its only a matter of time before tom's going to be putting stuff on the back of OUR necks..."
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-07-2004, 05:40 AM   #14
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Pet costs. Ooooh goodness. I shudder to even consider figuring out the daily cost of my arthritic, allergy prone, incontinent lab. The mutt is cheap.

I shall do my research and report back.
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-07-2004, 07:49 AM   #15
 
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Okay, here is the story on the dogs. Contrary to what
others advise, we feed them various types of "Old Roy"
dry from Walmart. They seem healthy enough. Plus
we do not hesitate to add table scraps. After all, years ago that was about all dogs lived on. Also, we
skip a lot of "required" shots and health care, letting them take their chances. If they are unlucky and get
a really expensive affliction................Well, they have a good
chance of that "final lonely ride". We love 'em but have
our limits. My previous lab was kept alive for years by
the best care money could buy. Things are different now.

Just briefly about Mackinac Island. Wonderful place!
Used to go every year back in my "salad days".
Stayed at The Grand usually. Otherwise The Iroquois, which is right on the water. Has to be one of the prettiest
areas of Michigan and that's saying something. Of
course, the winters are brutal.

Back to the $90 per day for a single. I guess we are
just so automatically cranked back on spending that
it would be difficult to spend $90 a day, and that's for 2 of us (plus dogs). Makes me feel pretty good as
every so often I think, "Man, I am spending like a
drunken sailor!" An example would be buying a $2.00
greeting card or a $5.00 bottle of wine. We can afford it of course. I've
just trained myself not to do it.

John Galt

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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-07-2004, 10:13 AM   #16
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Quote:
*Makes me feel pretty good as every so often I think, "Man, I am spending like a
drunken sailor!" *An example would be buying a $2.00
greeting card or a $5.00 bottle of wine. *We can afford it of course. *I've just trained myself not to do it.

John Galt
The interesting thing to me, is I THINK I am being frugal. Compared to most people I know, $90/day is nothing... I don't buy a lot of "toys" or fancy clothes - haunt the thrift shops, etc. But every month there seems to be some "extra" like the $1600 for valve stem seals this month... the emergency air fair to my mother's deathbed, etc. etc. Every month there seems to be SOMETHING that pushes me over the edge, so I just assume I have to factor these things into my retirement spending target.

Do some of you keep a tight "regular" budget, then allocate another account or source for the "emergency" items?
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-07-2004, 12:24 PM   #17
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

John -

I dont expect to convert you, but I'm not paying any more each month to feed my pups the good stuff than I'd pay feeding them "ol' roy".

As far as they're "doing all right", consider that cheap dog food is nutritionally equivalent to corn dogs made with cheap hot dogs and soda. Predominately corn (and dogs cant digest it as well as we can, so most of it goes right through and onto your back yard), some meat by products, unspecified "animal fats", sweeteners and colorings to make it palatable. They even add engine coolant to it in small quantities to encourage the dog to eat the food.

Good dog food is like a plate of chicken and rice with a bowl of oatmeal on the side. Supplemented with sunflower and fish oils. Fortified with vitamins and minerals, omega-3's, glucosamine and chondroitin, and probiotics.

You'd "do all right" on the corn dog/soda diet. Which one do you think would leave you healthier in your later years and which one would help you live longer? Avoid more trips to the doctor?

No "good" studies support one way or the other, but for the same approximate net price I'll lean towards what looks intuitively better.

About the only downside i've seen is that when I switched them over, they were reluctant to eat the new stuff. Makes sense, who'd want a chicken breast and rice when they'd been eating corn dogs? After a week or so of cajoling them, they dug right in. No problems since.
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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-07-2004, 01:39 PM   #18
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

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. . . About the only downside i've seen is that when I switched them over, they were reluctant to eat the new stuff. *Makes sense, who'd want a chicken breast and rice when they'd been eating corn dogs? *After a week or so of cajoling them, they dug right in. *No problems since.

A couple of tips to anyone who wants to switch dog foods (for whatever reason) For a week or so prior to filling their bowls with the new stuff, use it in small amounts as a treat. Run your dog through it's paces . . . sit, down, heel, come, balance the check book . . . whatever you've taught them. And each time they perform, feed them a few chunks of Ol Roy or Ol Aussie or whatever the new stuff is. In my experience, the association of the new stuff as a reward happens pretty quickly. Then when you offer a bowl of the new stuff one day, the dogs think they've gone to heaven. I've had four dogs over the years and have needed to switch food on one or more of them a handful of times. This technique has always worked like a charm. Your milage may vary.

Since cats don't typically take commands, you have to have another approach. I have a little bell I ring whenever I put out cat treats. Over time, the cats have learned that whenever the bell rings, treats show up in the laundry room. I've only had occasion to switch cat food once (when I moved from Iowa to Arizona and couldn't find the old food in the stores). But I used the bell and left the new stuff instead of their regular treats. The transition to the new food went very smoothly.

Some folks suggest mixing new stuff with old stuff in increasing ratios over a period of a couple of weeks for both cats and dogs. I tried that with one of my dogs before someone told me about the new food-as-reward method, but it really didn't work. The dog just picked out his old food and left the rest till he got too hungry to pass. I could have accomplished the same thing by just withholding more food each day till he got very hungry then only offering the new stuff.

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Re: $90 per day aint hay
Old 07-08-2004, 05:51 AM   #19
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Re: $90 per day aint hay

Many dog people (especially breeders) don't like to use food as a reward. They believe the dog should want to please you and that's enough of a reward.

I'm on a few dog listservs...the food debate is all over the place and could go on and on and on. There is no right answer. If your dog likes the food and is healthy and you're comfortable paying whatever price you pay, then you don't need to worry.

If you use purina pro-plan, contact me and I'll share with you my secret on how to save the big bucks.
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Re: note to TH re: pet care
Old 07-08-2004, 08:20 AM   #20
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Re: note to TH re: pet care

<delurking>

TH...you sound very knowledgeable about pets and their care. I hope you'll share your thoughts with me on a couple of questions I have.

I have an indoor/outdoor cat. I've been feeding her (over the years) mostly dry food (e.g., Wysong, Eukanuba, Felidae, Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul <or something akin to that>, and Innova). I was under the impression that these are top-of-the line quality-wise. I just read your earlier statement about premium foods. I cannot discern whether you meant that Eukanuba is good or bad. Can you please clarify?

Also, I've been treating her with Heartgard (anti-heartworm) and Program (flea control). I've shied away from using the topical treatments. Because, after reading the warnings on the packages, I was worried about applying the medicine to the cat; I also had concerns as to its effects if it rubbed off on me.

You mentioned that you prefer to use Revolution over Heartgard. Would you please tell me why?

<link to RE> As I am looking to RE in about a year and a half, keeping my cat healthy and happy will reduce my expenses long-term.

Thanks,

omni

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