Sheryl
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
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- Apr 6, 2004
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Oops - I didn't see Jane's post when I said all were $90 something. Now I need to go home and look at my spreadsheets again to see where all this money is going!!!
$90 per day aint hay
- Thread starter haha
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Oops - I didn't see Jane's post when I said all were $90 something. Now I need to go home and look at my spreadsheets again to see where all this money is going!!!
Ummmmm. Uh-oh.
I did this exercise last night and I'm at $263.something per day, calculated as running an expense report in Quicken for the past six months and multiplying by 2/365. I believe that my top two expense categories, Taxes and Interest Expense, are at least $90 per day.
I should add I'm still working and have three young kids.
I then thought I'd see how much of a nest egg each of my major budget categories would need and what my nest egg would need to be for my top N expenses.
It was pretty depressing that way because my current nest egg won't even cover my Tax bills. Of course I do expect taxes to go down in retirement, but still...
So I did it the other way and figured out what my nest egg would need to be for my *bottom* N expenses, and I'm pleased to say that I can cover my bottom 15 out of 31 expense categories. Woo hoo.
As for pets, we have seven -- 1 dog, 3 cats, and 3 rats. I think "Pets" is one of the uncovered top 16 expense categories.
malakito
I did this exercise last night and I'm at $263.something per day, calculated as running an expense report in Quicken for the past six months and multiplying by 2/365. I believe that my top two expense categories, Taxes and Interest Expense, are at least $90 per day.
I should add I'm still working and have three young kids.
I then thought I'd see how much of a nest egg each of my major budget categories would need and what my nest egg would need to be for my top N expenses.
It was pretty depressing that way because my current nest egg won't even cover my Tax bills. Of course I do expect taxes to go down in retirement, but still...
So I did it the other way and figured out what my nest egg would need to be for my *bottom* N expenses, and I'm pleased to say that I can cover my bottom 15 out of 31 expense categories. Woo hoo.
As for pets, we have seven -- 1 dog, 3 cats, and 3 rats. I think "Pets" is one of the uncovered top 16 expense categories.
malakito
OP
OP
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Well, I think we have a range now. From Jane's $45 to Malakito's $263.
But Jane, I am a bit baffled by your inclusion of gifts and vacations under savings. If trips are a form of saving, I'm off to China tomorrow!
Mikey
Oh sorry to confuse you Mikey. 
The way I manage my money is this:
My paycheck is automatically deposited into various accounts from my registered retirement account, checking account (which I use to pay bills, mortgage, daily expenses etc) and 2 savings account: 1 for emergency cash, and 1 for gifts, vacation and mortgage lump-sump. So that's why gifts and vacation comes under "savings" since I have to SAVE the money first in the saving account before I can use it. Pretty cool eh? 8)
I found that this is the easiest way to manage money for me - not too much work since all of this account activities are automated.
Jane
The way I manage my money is this:
My paycheck is automatically deposited into various accounts from my registered retirement account, checking account (which I use to pay bills, mortgage, daily expenses etc) and 2 savings account: 1 for emergency cash, and 1 for gifts, vacation and mortgage lump-sump. So that's why gifts and vacation comes under "savings" since I have to SAVE the money first in the saving account before I can use it. Pretty cool eh? 8)
I found that this is the easiest way to manage money for me - not too much work since all of this account activities are automated.
Jane
Yeah, I know. I'm familiar with the debate and the arguments. It really depends on the dog. If you want to train a dog you need to find something you can use and condition them to recognize as a reward and something you can use to condition them to recognize as punishment. I don't use food to obedience train them.
What I was referring to is use of food as a reward for a short period of time (about a week) to condition them to accept a new kind of food. Once the process is over, go back to your routine.
But I've seen some dog trainers and breeders who use food as a reward and get impressive results. It can work for you if you don't mind walking around with dog food in your pocket all day long. Then you also need to account for the reward food in the dog's daily diet. Too much trouble for me.
Interesting discussion. Mrs. MileKing and I (no kids, no pets) are at $250 per day, about $86 of which is mortgage. Throw in a few dollars for electricity and gas, and I think we could live in the local Hampton Inn for that.....we'd have free breakfast, free cable, and maid service to boot. Plus we'd earn Hilton Honors points on each stay, gaining about 1 free day every two weeks (based on $90 room rate and Diamond HHonors status).
Something to think about, although I'm sure Mrs. MileKing would nix the idea.
Something to think about, although I'm sure Mrs. MileKing would nix the idea.
Hmmm, this is an interesting thread. I'm at about $73 per day not including any irregular large expenses. If I remove my mortgage, I'm at about $59 per day (yeah, not much of a mortgage payment eh ?). If I look at the kind of stuff that will likely decrease in retirement, $50/day is easy, I can actually go lower. I have several retirement budgets worked out, from current spending habits down to subsistence living, which is at about $30 per day, how's that for low ! Of course, this would not be any fun at all..... I am currently working and spend quite a bit eating out and on gas for commuting, these are the largest of the ones I expect to go down in retirement, and are reflected in the $73 per day.
-pan
-pan
J
John Galt
Guest
$175 per day? Wow! I used to spend more than that when I was working, but now...............25K per year seems like plenty to me. It was really relatively
easy to crank down to this level. Temptation still
pops up (to spend like the old days) but it gets
easier to resist all the time.
easy to crank down to this level. Temptation still
pops up (to spend like the old days) but it gets
easier to resist all the time.
Although I am still a working single, I spend less than $50 a day. When I retire next year, it will go up to about $115 a day. I will have to pick up my health insurance and dental bills. I plan to spend about 17K to travel aboad and the USA for the next 10 + years just in time for SS (66) to have kicked in. I haven't taken a trip in years. I have a lot of catching up to do, Southeast Asia, India China, Africa, North America, the planets and if I have a bit more time, the stars.
MJ
MJ
Actually, our spending in our first year of retirement is up from when we both worked. We also had a number of infrequent purchase items this past year -- replaced dishwasher, replaced air conditioner, replaced one computer, replaced SUV. We had a bad mechanical year.
The SUV we could have waited on (and probably would have waited if we had known that everything else was going to fail), but the other items wore out or went brain dead in the same year.
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Re: note to TH pet care
Hey my pets became a far larger part of my life in ER. Not to far a leap to make a connection.
The foods you mentioned are good, excepting eukanuba. Bear in mind I dont read every single package of every single formulation of every single company every single day, and these things change. Last time I looked at eukanuba it had corn and by-products in it, and overall the ingredients were inferior to the other brands you mentioned without an inferior price.
Wysong is one of the better foods, although perhaps a little spendy compared to felidae which is a darn good food at a reasonable price. Wysong is also very hard to find. Chicken soup for the pet lovers soul is a pretty good food, but whoever named it should be drawn, quartered and shot by the marketing committee for not naming things so a man wouldnt want to buy them without including a package of chartreusse underwear in the deal.
Heartguard and frontline are good products, and i've given it to my animals. I like revolution because it also treats fleas, ticks, intestinal worms and so forth. Two hours after application the area can be washed. Transmission to people doesnt appear to be a problem. Applying even 4-5x the dosage to the animal produces few side effects in a very small percentage of animals, yet even less than half a dosage is considered effective. After reading the research study (which I did some months ago, there may be newer stuff), it appeared safe and an effective broad spectrum parasite treatment for about the same price as the heartworm treatment alone. I'm paying about $8-9 per pet per month.
As far as analysis and study, I became aware some time ago that we share an awful lot in common with our pets systemically. You can give your dog many human medications and they react similarly to many foods and drugs. Of course you should check with your vet before doing so. With that in mind, I simply educated myself on the fine art of concocting pet foods and what the ingredients mean, and bought a food composed of good stuff, absent of bad stuff, that contained what I thought would be good for ME to eat.
For one reason and one reason only: I want them to live the longest and healthiest lives they can. Good nutrition and care can make a difference. That my pets have averaged lifespans as much as 50% longer than typical says something I'm doing is working.
<delurking>
TH...you sound very knowledgeable about pets and their care. I hope you'll share your thoughts with me on a couple of questions I have.
I have an indoor/outdoor cat. I've been feeding her (over the years) mostly dry food (e.g., Wysong, Eukanuba, Felidae, Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul <or something akin to that>, and Innova). I was under the impression that these are top-of-the line quality-wise. I just read your earlier statement about premium foods. I cannot discern whether you meant that Eukanuba is good or bad.
Also, I've been treating her with Heartgard (anti-heartworm) and Program (flea control). I've shied away from using the topical treatments. Because, after reading the warnings on the packages, I was worried about applying the medicine to the cat; I also had concerns as to its effects if it rubbed off on me.
You mentioned that you prefer to use Revolution over Heartgard. Would you please tell me why?
<link to RE> As I am looking to RE in about a year and a half, keeping my cat healthy and happy will reduce my expenses long-term.
Thanks,
omni
Hey my pets became a far larger part of my life in ER. Not to far a leap to make a connection.
The foods you mentioned are good, excepting eukanuba. Bear in mind I dont read every single package of every single formulation of every single company every single day, and these things change. Last time I looked at eukanuba it had corn and by-products in it, and overall the ingredients were inferior to the other brands you mentioned without an inferior price.
Wysong is one of the better foods, although perhaps a little spendy compared to felidae which is a darn good food at a reasonable price. Wysong is also very hard to find. Chicken soup for the pet lovers soul is a pretty good food, but whoever named it should be drawn, quartered and shot by the marketing committee for not naming things so a man wouldnt want to buy them without including a package of chartreusse underwear in the deal.
Heartguard and frontline are good products, and i've given it to my animals. I like revolution because it also treats fleas, ticks, intestinal worms and so forth. Two hours after application the area can be washed. Transmission to people doesnt appear to be a problem. Applying even 4-5x the dosage to the animal produces few side effects in a very small percentage of animals, yet even less than half a dosage is considered effective. After reading the research study (which I did some months ago, there may be newer stuff), it appeared safe and an effective broad spectrum parasite treatment for about the same price as the heartworm treatment alone. I'm paying about $8-9 per pet per month.
As far as analysis and study, I became aware some time ago that we share an awful lot in common with our pets systemically. You can give your dog many human medications and they react similarly to many foods and drugs. Of course you should check with your vet before doing so. With that in mind, I simply educated myself on the fine art of concocting pet foods and what the ingredients mean, and bought a food composed of good stuff, absent of bad stuff, that contained what I thought would be good for ME to eat.
For one reason and one reason only: I want them to live the longest and healthiest lives they can. Good nutrition and care can make a difference. That my pets have averaged lifespans as much as 50% longer than typical says something I'm doing is working.
If I cheat a little, I can get our number down to $450 a day (wife and two kids). Looks like I should be spending more time on the cost-cutting parts of this site! Maybe this is why I'm still 'semi-working bob'... Still, I am the biggest skinflint in the neighborhood, keep our cars 10 years, buy cheapo airline seats etc. Maybe NY area is just expensive...
ESRBob
ESRBob
OP
OP
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Well, you have certainly established that you are one hell of an earner! Congrats
Mikey
A back-of-the-envelope calculation using real numbers (how much we tend to spend each year, taken from Quicken over the past four or five years) gives me a range of about $80-95 per day. That's for two people and one cat. None of us feels deprived at all - quite the opposite, in fact.
We just moved to a new area with more expensive rental costs, so it'll be interesting to see how the numbers play out this year.
BTW, those numbers are for everything, including rent and taxes.
We just moved to a new area with more expensive rental costs, so it'll be interesting to see how the numbers play out this year.
BTW, those numbers are for everything, including rent and taxes.
J
John Galt
Guest
Hi Holly. FYI, you are way over us. A couple with
4 dogs and 2 homes.
John Galt
4 dogs and 2 homes.
John Galt
J
John Galt
Guest
Holy Katort! $37 per day for health insurance
Have you shopped? Are you happy with it?
Howcum so high? How do you justify paying that much?
Seems absurdly high to me.
John Galt
Have you shopped? Are you happy with it?
Howcum so high? How do you justify paying that much?
Seems absurdly high to me.
John Galt
John, that's what a typical low out-of-pocket, fee for service, family plan costs these days. It is about the best money can buy, however. And the $37/day includes the max out-of-pocket of $800 per year for a family (and there is no lifetime max). Plus it can't be canceled, and if I die, my wife's coverage can't be canceled either.
I can get an HMO for less, but not that much less. I have no high-deductible low premium choices. The cheapest premium is around $800/month, but it's with an HMO most people avoid at all costs, provides less, etc.
Do I shop? Are you kidding? I'm lucky to have anything at all. There's nothing out there that doesn't require underwriting. In my state you either buy through an employer group plan (if you're lucky enough to have that option in ER), receive Medicare/Medicaid, or buy through a state mandated plan that costs even more and provides less. If I were to try to buy it on the street, I couldn't get it. This isn't like shopping for a long-distance plan. When it comes to health insurance, people who have it are hanging on for dear life and those who don't have it are one major health crisis away from bankruptcy.
I can get an HMO for less, but not that much less. I have no high-deductible low premium choices. The cheapest premium is around $800/month, but it's with an HMO most people avoid at all costs, provides less, etc.
Do I shop? Are you kidding? I'm lucky to have anything at all. There's nothing out there that doesn't require underwriting. In my state you either buy through an employer group plan (if you're lucky enough to have that option in ER), receive Medicare/Medicaid, or buy through a state mandated plan that costs even more and provides less. If I were to try to buy it on the street, I couldn't get it. This isn't like shopping for a long-distance plan. When it comes to health insurance, people who have it are hanging on for dear life and those who don't have it are one major health crisis away from bankruptcy.
Hyperborea
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
As a rough calculation our current daily costs are about $140 for everything but income taxes. Is this number really directly useful for my retirement? Probably not. About half of that cost is for our home in Silicon Valley which we will be selling when we hit ER. Adding in taxes wouldn't make it anymore useful as those are tied to my current high income AND I will be changing my country of residence. That change of country will also throw most of the other budget items out of whack.
What I am doing for FIRE budget planning is using our travel budgets, doing some averaging over different destinations and planning for that as a worst case with an extra yearly amount to cover health insurance + out of pocket costs, and yearly overhead (ISP, cell phone, computer upkeep, mail box, etc.). This is almost assuredly on the high side as when we FIRE we will settle into one location and spend a number of months there. We will get better accomodation rates and will do more of our own cooking. If we need to we can also adjust where we spend our time - e.g. more time in central Europe as opposed to Paris and Berlin.
I'm also planning on an extra amount of portfolio beyond the 4% rule amount to buy us a retirement pad if and when we decide to stop travelling.
What I am doing for FIRE budget planning is using our travel budgets, doing some averaging over different destinations and planning for that as a worst case with an extra yearly amount to cover health insurance + out of pocket costs, and yearly overhead (ISP, cell phone, computer upkeep, mail box, etc.). This is almost assuredly on the high side as when we FIRE we will settle into one location and spend a number of months there. We will get better accomodation rates and will do more of our own cooking. If we need to we can also adjust where we spend our time - e.g. more time in central Europe as opposed to Paris and Berlin.
I'm also planning on an extra amount of portfolio beyond the 4% rule amount to buy us a retirement pad if and when we decide to stop travelling.
J
John Galt
Guest
First for Bob_Smith.........I suppose I saw some premium numbers
way up there with yours and ignored them at once because I knew we could never pay at that level.
We used to have insurance through my wife's employer
but now we cover ourselves. However, everything is capped, so if we get some dread disease, we are in deep doo doo. On the other hand, it's about all we can afford and if I can make it to 65 (5 years) Medicare will kick in.
Now for Panhead...........I also have figured what we would spend at a "subsistance" level. This is why I
keep insisting that $50 per day for a couple is quite
doable. I'm not saying anyone would enjoy it much.
Maybe this (ability to visualize cutting back to bare bones) is a biker thing. I really enjoy traveling/living with
nothing more than what I can carry on a motorcycle.
John Galt
way up there with yours and ignored them at once because I knew we could never pay at that level.
We used to have insurance through my wife's employer
but now we cover ourselves. However, everything is capped, so if we get some dread disease, we are in deep doo doo. On the other hand, it's about all we can afford and if I can make it to 65 (5 years) Medicare will kick in.
Now for Panhead...........I also have figured what we would spend at a "subsistance" level. This is why I
keep insisting that $50 per day for a couple is quite
doable. I'm not saying anyone would enjoy it much.
Maybe this (ability to visualize cutting back to bare bones) is a biker thing. I really enjoy traveling/living with
nothing more than what I can carry on a motorcycle.
John Galt
I think the subsistence thing is an important idea to have in your head, but John Galt, I have to admit, the one expense I did not remove from the calculation was motorcycle insurance and excise tax ! Every other luxury was removed, cable, cell phone, etc, and every other category cut to minimum, but I ain't going w/o my bike ! I couldn't agree more, there's nothing like taking off on the bike for a week with only what you can carry. It really makes you realize what you truly need......
-pan-
-pan-
unclemick
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Family pictures, tax files, a change of clothes and a credit card. Everything else is stuff. We go thru the mental drill every hurricane season. Years ago - it used to take a lot longer to pack for evacuation - now it's easier - stuff is expendable. I remember my old XKE jag (30 yrs ago) wherein I had a 61 Pontiac to use when it didn't run or to go get parts to fix. I offen wondered - who owned who. Less stuff/lower cost of living. Unfortunately we are slowly drifting in the opposite direction to use the funds coming in.
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