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Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 12:03 PM   #1
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Own a house versus renting; expenses

I am nearing Phase B of pre FIRE, which means move closer to the extended family and likely lesser salary.* My new location would be much closer but not right where I want to live eventually, so we would rent for some time until FIRE'd or transfer.* It would be 1.5 hours away versus 15 hours away.* Easily doable for weekends, Easter Egg hunts, Fireworks, Christmas, etc; with the many cousins and that kind of stuff, which our kids miss out on now.* Looking at the possible budget I noticed the following:

Now (average monthly)
Utilities (water, gas, elect, cable, trash, tele = 50,50,200,50,50,50= 450
House mntc = 200 (Drapes, paint, lumber for some project, always something)
House insurance = 40
Taxes, school and property= 275
Asc fee = 50

total 1,015 per month for the house => ~12k per year expenses specifically for the homestead, not counting mortgage (which we do not have)

If we rent, i guesstimated
Utilities (water, gas, elect, cable, trash, tele = 50,50,200,50,50, 50= 100
House mntc = 0 (maybe one time $ to setup apartment ??
House insurance =0
Taxes, school and Property =0
Asc fee =0

On the expenses above; I have a delta of about 11k.*

I have not factored in the Mortgage versus Rent.* Considering a phantom mortgage verusus the rents I've researched, the rents are still much less in the new location.

House owners; do my budget numbers jive with what you see. Am I out of line.

Renters; What am I missing in my numbers that I should add as a result of not having a house.* storage space (maybe, but free if need it from family), eat out more??, more time to spend $ due to no yard to mow or garden to keep.

I realize I am leaving out the emotional side of this where the house provides more than a roof, but some emotional value.

job
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 12:18 PM   #2
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

When you buy a home, you are taking on significant debt and regular monthly payments. Those payments are buying equity in property that is likely to appreciate in value and provide benefit in the future. You are also receiving preferential tax treatment for those payments. If you choose to rent, you are likely to reduce your monthly burden, but the money you spend is not buying any future value and you are not receiving any tax breaks on your payments.

The rent versus buy decision is almost always more about lifestyle choice than financial considerations. Both from a financial and an emotional perspective, however, either decision can be better than the other. The best choice depends on the locality of the residence, timing of the purchase/rent decision, length of time the residence will be occupied, and priorities of the individual.

In some cities and regions of the country, purchase prices of houses are low while a shortage of rental properties places rental rates as high as or higher than mortgage payments. In addition, house prices may be climbing in these same areas. If you move to one of these areas, buying is likely to be the best financial decision. At the same time, soaring housing prices in many parts of the country have made renting a bargain. In these areas, renting can be financially advantageous. A few years from now, the housing/rental markets may be different in these areas.

Buying a house involves some fixed costs including real estate agent fees, inspection fees, document preparation fees, finance fees, title fees, . . . The number of people who have to be paid in order for you to complete a house purchase is staggering. In order to benefit from home ownership, you need to stay in the house long enough for the property value appreciation to exceed the fixed costs of buying and selling. In periods of rapid growth of a local real estate market, that time can be as short as a year. There are also cities that have experienced long-term declines in property value for more than a decade. From a financial perspective, rent/buy decisions, timing and time of ownership are all locally determined.

Lifestyle preferences are as important as the financial aspect is to the rent/buy decision. Given enough time, home purchase is almost always financially advantageous. Having a mortgage ends up being preferable to paying rent, but if you move frequently and donít own a lot of things, renting often makes more sense and is cheaper than buying.

It is important to consider what types of properties are available for rent and purchase in your area. If a one room efficiency is plenty of home for you, it may be difficult to find equivalent property to consider for purchase. On the other hand, if you require a 4-bedroom home with land, you may find the rental selection very limited. In the end, these lifestyle choices are often more important to the rent/buy decision than careful analysis of local housing markets and rental offerings.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 12:29 PM   #3
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

A few other things to consider is that nowadays, even when you rent, many places make you pick up the tab for electric/gas. So about the only freebie you might get is the water.

Oh, and don't forget renter's insurance.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 12:36 PM   #4
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

It could be regional but where I live when you rent you're still usually responsible for paying for electricity.

Also note you'll probably want renter's insurance for your stuff.

Also - you pay $50 for trash and $50 for water? WOW.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 12:36 PM   #5
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Oops... Andre what are you hacking into my computer? Post thief!
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 12:44 PM   #6
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

The biggest things you're missing are inflation and home appreciation.

Inflation of rents is the killer when you compare to owning a home, since your mortgage doesn't go up with inflation (but your home value does).

If you plan to rent for just a few years, then rent will probably be the cheaper path.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 02:10 PM   #7
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

It is impossible to generalize. Rent can sometimes be better. We rent in a building that has residents that have been renting for 35 years. We have been in our penthouse for 10 years. Of the other three PHs, 2 have been here longer than us. These people are well-off but choose this as a better way to live than to maintain a house. All are over 60 and retired.

Granted this is very unusual. But my point is that we cannot generalize. Could we have made more by owning? Yes but only if we were prepared to move to crystallize the gains. Meanwhile our investments have grown by more than the rental increase. At the end of the day that is all that matters. (We also enjoy the pool and tennis courts.)
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 03:01 PM   #8
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

We're in between.

We own an townhome. It's got the higher HOA dues but they cover the exterior/roof, landscaping, pest control, water/trash/sewage, and we've got a pretty nice community pool.

We really dig it here though... end unit so there are windows on three sides, thick walls, garage, community limit (with waiting queue) on number of units that can be rentals.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 07:34 PM   #9
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

And then you have California houses. Throws the whole renting verse owning for a whole different loop. Go up to Lake Tahoe for a laugh. Glad I got into it early on
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-28-2006, 08:04 PM   #10
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

I'm not yet considering the mortgage versus rent yet. What threw me was the delta in mntc,decoration,taxes,utilities, etc. In my case, I think it will be about 11K/yr, excluding the renter insurance which I forgot.

As far as the rent, I'll put the equity in old loco house in some bonds/divi stocks and it will be close to covering the expected current rents. There will also be some upside (downside) potential to the base capital.

job
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-29-2006, 08:17 AM   #11
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre1969
A few other things to consider is that nowadays, even when you rent, many places make you pick up the tab for electric/gas. So about the only freebie you might get is the water.

Oh, and don't forget renter's insurance.
I had those bills when I owned so to me rent is the total expense of the space plus gas/electric, with insurance optional.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-29-2006, 09:32 AM   #12
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
The biggest things you're missing are inflation and home appreciation.

Inflation of rents is the killer when you compare to owning a home, since your mortgage doesn't go up with inflation (but your home value does)

mr bubble is arguing for home appreciation?

relax, i'm just playing.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-29-2006, 09:49 AM   #13
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond
I had those bills when I owned so to me rent is the total expense of the space plus gas/electric, with insurance optional.
I don't think of renter's insurance as optional. Even if your stuff is junk, you want it for the libability protection.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-29-2006, 10:34 AM   #14
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
I don't think of renter's insurance as optional.* Even if your stuff is junk, you want it for the libability protection.
I suspect 99% of renters don't realize that aspect and end up going unprotected......

DW and I own a condo townhouse that family members rent from us. While the development carries the basic property insurance, I also have a small rider policy that covers appliance upgrades, but the real reason is for liability insurance.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-29-2006, 11:07 AM   #15
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Also dont forget that you may end up kissing your security deposit goodbye. Everyone I know thats rented in the last ten years (including my last two apartments years ago), the landlord tried to snipe the money. Had to take them to small claims court and they just defaulted and paid at the last minute. Seems this is turning into a standard policy with many landlords...

I also never got anything aside from water and sometimes trash pickup included in the rent.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-29-2006, 11:17 AM   #16
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum
mr bubble is arguing for home appreciation?
When nobody will argue with me, sometimes I have to argue both sides of an argument by myself.*

Home appreciation is a huge factor when considering rent vs buy, but guessing what the rate of appreciation will be is another matter....

Pretty good rent vs buy calculator here.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-30-2006, 06:53 AM   #17
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Some parts of the country (ie. "bubble land") have rents well below the cost of buying. I've seen reports where San Francisco properties can be rented for about 60% of the cost of buying. In these places investors are betting on huge appreciation to make their gains while the renter covers some of their costs.

In stable housing markets, the total cost of renting is usually pretty close to slightly higher than buying. That's seems to be true here in Houston. Buying properties to "flip" here is pretty difficult. Making money in real estate here requires a long time horizen or lots of smarts.

I wouldn't consider buying unless you are pretty sure you'll be there 3 years or more.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-30-2006, 12:45 PM   #18
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
When nobody will argue with me, sometimes I have to argue both sides of an argument by myself.
Wouldnt that be two unarmed men in a gunfight?
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-30-2006, 01:07 PM   #19
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Wouldnt that be two unarmed men in a gunfight?
Watch it fuzzy, or I might ask you if I should pay off my 5% mortgage and buy a P4-based laptop.*
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses
Old 07-30-2006, 01:08 PM   #20
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Re: Own a house versus renting; expenses

Absolutely on the first count. Absolutely on the second count as well since you live in a cool weather area. Get one with the desktop chip in it and an external processor heatsink, if at all possible.
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