Recession's Mark on Millennials

Withholding a competitive rate for employees across the entire company is now the norm .... .

That doesn't even make sense. If a company isn't competitive with their compensation, they will lose their employees to.... their competitors. And if they are all doing it ('the norm'), then it is a competitive rate, by definition.


... You could double the pay of the entire staff of non executive personell and not come close to the compensation of the key executives. How is that not stealing from you Mr. Shareholder? ...

It's only stealing if those executives are being over-paid (by what measure?). I think there are issues with C-level pay, and collusion with the BOD, but that's not the topic.

Are you talking about total pay, or individual pay? I doubt there are many large companies where the total pay of the employees is less than half the total of the top executives. Could you provide a few examples?

-ERD50
 
Look back at the quote - the "$51,950 a year in college tuition" he replied to was for tuition only.



I don't know if it is accurate or not, but that was what he was replying to.

-ERD50

My post was the relative increases. :facepalm:

Yes my school is not the cheapest school in the lot, nor the most expensive! But the tuition increase is way out of wack with the salary increase of a GS9 government employee.

Name just 5 in the USA? Provide documentation. Include room and board, since for 95% of students that usually applies.

We just went through this process with our son, so I know you are going to have trouble with your facts.

Cheapest state Universities in a low COLA state with room and board run $25,000 per year minimum. That's one hundred grand for a cheap in-state school after 4 years. And with rates rising 7-9% each year, it will be $30,000-$35,000 per year before the student is done unless that state puts a temporary freeze on rate hikes.
+1

I just went through the school dance with my daughter and my son is close behind. So I am keenly aware of costs of schools and their relative value in the market place. The cost to value relationship has been widening for some time now, and it has gotten way out of control.:mad:

When my daughter was just a few years old I recall wondering how we would ever afford the $100,000 tuition of MIT. 15 years later when she graduated high school that figure had jumped to over $200,000.:horse:
 
$1000 per month for room and board is actually quite cheap. You try renting an apartment and then addind in a meal plan with 3 meals a day of mongolian barbeque or all you can eat buffet type food for the entire month, plus csble tv, internet and all utilities paid. Get the picture?
 
Withholding a competitive rate for employees across the entire company is now the norm, yet that same corporation will let its board of directors vote themselves astronomical stock options and raises that are over 1000 times higher than what the standard of board member compensation 30 years ago. You could double the pay of the entire staff of non executive personell and not come close to the compensation of the key executives. How is that not stealing from you Mr. Shareholder? The executives of today are not 1000 times better than those of 30 years ago, in fact, many are total failures, only to last 3-5 years and exit with a huge compensation package, with no truthful gain to the company in the entire tenure. The problem is NOT with higher pay for the average worker, its the extremely high unfair compensation for those at the top.

++++++1 on that. As a shareholder of many companies it makes me sick to see the compensation of some of the board members and top executives. And many of them get ridiculous stock options that are still "in the money" even as the stock price craters. I keep wondering why mutual funds don't start getting tough on this "legal theft"
 
Name just 5 in the USA? Provide documentation. Include room and board, since for 95% of students that usually applies.

We just went through this process with our son, so I know you are going to have trouble with your facts.
[...]
COST PER YEAR TUITION AND EXPENSES FOR "THE" Ohio State University
Cost of Attendance In-state: $25,539 Out-of-state: $44,731
Tuition and Fees In-state: $10,037 Out-of-state: $29,229
[...]
Well, unless I have problems with reading comprehension, I think one of the schools with annual tuition less than one-fifth of $51,950 turns out to be "THE" Ohio State University unless you are trying to catch me with alternative facts. :dance:

I've paid for two millennials to go to college. One of them graduated from one of those schools with purported Cost of Attendance of about $70,000. The other is getting through a school with $20,000 CoA. I am keenly aware of the cost of a college education because I've paid for 3 of them. I am keenly aware of the choices that are available, too.
 
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Well, unless I have problems with reading comprehension, I think one of the schools with annual tuition less than one-fifth of $51,950 turns out to be "THE" Ohio State University unless you are trying to catch me with alternative facts. :dance:



Over $25 grand would be only half, not one fifth. So yes. Let's call it comprehension failure rather than alternate facts. Cause facts IS facts!
 
++++++1 on that. As a shareholder of many companies it makes me sick to see the compensation of some of the board members and top executives. And many of them get ridiculous stock options that are still "in the money" even as the stock price craters. I keep wondering why mutual funds don't start getting tough on this "legal theft"

That's one of the reasons I like Parnassus funds. The fund managers are activist shareholders who call out the companies they invest in regarding their business practices. Their management fees are high relative to index funds, but not outrageously high, and they do pretty well performance-wise with a socially responsible agenda.

It's where I put my "slow money." :D
 
Over $25 grand would be only half, not one fifth. So yes. Let's call it comprehension failure rather than alternate facts. Cause facts IS facts!
OK, I'm happy to call it comprehension failure.
 
$1000 per month for room and board is actually quite cheap. You try renting an apartment and then addind in a meal plan with 3 meals a day of mongolian barbeque or all you can eat buffet type food for the entire month, plus csble tv, internet and all utilities paid. Get the picture?

Of course living in an apartment is an upgrade from a dorm. A double dorm room at Mich State runs 3000 for the room and from 2800 up for food (per semester (depending on extras of which there are a lot more than 45 years ago). Including the dining hall being open from 7 am to 8pm instead of roughly 2 hours per meal 45 years ago (closing at 630 pm then) And by far a lot more food choices.
 
Just completed the 6 month process of college applications with DD. Attached is a spread sheet of the outcome for 10 of the 12 she applied to (still waiting to hear from the last 2). Notice I have her taking the $5,500 freshman loan and am including the $2,500 education tax credit that we wouldn't get if she was not going to college. She has a 3.9/4.3 GPA and as a result her merit scholarships/grants were pretty good. The cost you see is the cost to me.

View attachment College Applications.pdf

You can see from the chart that there are reasonable options, especially if she was to live at home and attend the local state university. That would essentially be free for me and cost her about 10K total in student loans.

My plan is to have her take out the maximum loan she can take in her name; which currently will be $27K for all for years. I'll pay the annual interest so she graduates with this debt. Monthly payments will be $270 for 10 years at today's rates. I believe that is reasonable and doable even with a 32K starting job. If she works during school, and I suspect she will, the student loan will be considerably less.

It's anecdotal, but it's probably not as bad as some might expect based on what you see in the media. At least not for a student who has applied themselves in HS.
 
Financial aid is a scam.
Warning big brag coming..

Remember no academic scholarships for top Universities.
DD is attending #8 & #17 ranked University in the Nation and World respectively for about $20K out of pocket. State school (only 1 real choice others are a joke) ranked #159 & #666. With Academic Scholarship (didn't qualify financial) would have cost about $10K after an $18K scholarship.

So son who isn't as academically gifted will be faced with paying almost 50% higher rate for a school that has about 2% of the marketability. For a total of $100K for 4 years!

Fully support and think it is tougher on kids today to get a good start in life then years past.
 
Who says they aren't producing?

Some of them also own the place. Investment bankers, surgeons, CEOs, high profile lawyers, partners in management firms, professors, ..

I guess by the time you become a geezer you had better have figured out how to become a part owner, otherwise you get squeezed out.
 
Employees aren't commodities and ultimately companies are only as good as their employees. You can't go out and find X identical skill sets and the same character and take the cheapest one. If you find good employees you had better figure out how to keep them, and get rid of the ones who aren't good enough. Treating employees like commodities is not a good way to retain your best talent, but that seems to be more and more common these days. Very short-sighted.
 
The numbers::
Tuition in 1992 about= $15,000
Pell grant =$2300
GS9 Salary about =$32,000

Tuition in 2017=$51,950 3.14 times higher 214% increase
Pell Grant 2017=$5,775 2.5 times higher 150% increase
GS9 Salary 2017=$42,823 1.3 times higher 30% increase





No one is forced to pay $51,950 a year in college tuition. There are certainly state flagship universities where tuition is one-fifth that amount.




Name just 5 in the USA? Provide documentation. Include room and board, since for 95% of students that usually applies.



Kinda see the difference in the first two and yours:confused: I do... so does others...

Nobody said the cost was $51K all in... and nobody said that you could get it at 1/5th of that amount all in... except YOU....

Tuition for the University of Texas is around $10K.... for tuition... which is, BTW, less than 1/5th which is what was mentioned... so you now have at least two who are less than 1/5th...

OH... BTW, looked up Texas A&M and it is about the same, so now up to three... opps.... University of Houston is even less than these two... so now have four.... I am sure someone came come up with the fifth...

Cost for UT....
$22,012

Texas Residents

  • Tuition: $9,806
  • Books and Supplies: $750
  • Other Fees: $0
  • Room and Board: $11,456
 
Kinda see the difference in the first two and yours:confused: I do... so does others...

Nobody said the cost was $51K all in... and nobody said that you could get it at 1/5th of that amount all in... except YOU....

Tuition for the University of Texas is around $10K.... for tuition... which is, BTW, less than 1/5th which is what was mentioned... so you now have at least two who are less than 1/5th...

OH... BTW, looked up Texas A&M and it is about the same, so now up to three... opps.... University of Houston is even less than these two... so now have four.... I am sure someone came come up with the fifth...

Cost for UT....
$22,012

Texas Residents

  • Tuition: $9,806
  • Books and Supplies: $750
  • Other Fees: $0
  • Room and Board: $11,456

Tuition for those not fortunate enough to live in Texas or have the option of a top state university in their state Texas A&M Tuition =$30,208 all in it=$47,386. Our only state university ranks 166 and costs $12,844 for residents, and other states have worse choices.

The discussion was relative cost and difficulty of getting started in life for the next generation. I took it to reflect the run away cost of college education.
 
The business section of this morning's Chicago Tribune had an interesting article that compares the financial situation of millennials with that of their boomer parents. While the article is geared to personal stories, the numbers appear to be real, and to me, disturbing.
Though we're from the silent generation, looking back at when we were in our twenties, the economy was promising, and afforded us a decent salary as well as an affordable lifestyle. Perhaps, even more than that, a bright outlook for the future.
The dollar differences, while shown on an annual basis are wide enough, but the lower income in today's economy does not augur well for building a financial base for the future.







Shareholder value is a business term, sometimes phrased as shareholder value maximization or as the shareholder value model, which implies that the ultimate measure of a company's success is the extent to which it enriches shareholders.

In a nutshell this greedy business school excuse to squeeze workers both white collar and blue collar again and again has destroyed the American standard of living over the last 30 to 40 years.

The millennial generation is just getting killed by corporate greed. Pay a damn living wage corporate America!

Thank God wages cannot go any lower.;) Except in the Southern states!:D
We have hit the bottom. :facepalm:

And please old timers in this community please don't tell stories about big boy pants and walking 10 miles to school. :nonono: Seriously, don't compare your decade to 2017.

And yes I am old enough to probably be an old timer and I humble myself everyday when I look at my portfolio balance. But I am just lucky.:)
 
Tuition for those not fortunate enough to live in Texas or have the option of a top state university in their state Texas A&M Tuition =$30,208 all in it=$47,386. Our only state university ranks 166 and costs $12,844 for residents, and other states have worse choices.

The discussion was relative cost and difficulty of getting started in life for the next generation. I took it to reflect the run away cost of college education.


But that is not what was challenged.... what was challenged was your stmt of tuition... and someone said you could pay 1/5th of what you listed for tuition at some schools... someone said that was not true and to prove it... but they wanted proof of total cost of education when you did not provide total cost... so an apple and orange comparison...

I understand that the main discussion was on relative costs, but the challenge was very specific on tuition...


So, what is the all in cost to attend your university:confused: For a Texas resident it is easy to find under $25K...

Here is a decent university that I attended.... lists annual cost of $17K for in state and $27K for out of state.... so total cost is not quite 1/2 the cost of just tuition you mentioned....


Annual Prices

Residents of Texas pay an annual total price of $17,418 to attend Sam Houston State University on a full time basis. This fee is comprised of $5,172 for tuition, $8,676 room and board, $1,124 for books and supplies and $2,446 for other fees.
Out of state residents are charged a total cost of $26,778 which is 53.7% higher than Texas residents. The tuition charge is $14,532 while room and board is $8,676, books and supplies are $1,124 and other fees come in at $2,446.





Sam Houston State University - Net Price, Tuition, Cost to Attend, Financial Aid and Student Loans


 
I did a little digging and it cost about $750 tuition for me to attend University of Wisconsin-Madison (a decent enough school) per year in 1972. I shared an apartment with 2 other guys and I think we each paid $50/mo rent. Mac and Cheese and hot dogs were standard fare so I suppose I spend an addition $50 to eat. So the total for a year was approx. $1650. Minimum wage was $1.60/hour. So it took about a thousand hours of work. Weekly I had to work 19 hours to cover the cost.

My daughters are going to State schools (not the flagship UW-Madison) and the cost is approximately $18,500. They make $8.50/hour. So they would need to work 43 hours/week to do the same that I did at 19 hours a week.

Yes Millennial's are at a disadvantage. And mainly it is because year after year the State has given a smaller and smaller share of the budget to higher education.
 
I frankly cannot recall what I paid for my tuition, for undergraduate as well as graduate school. It would not matter anyway as I paid quite a bit less than the normal tuition, so the numbers could not be compared with anything. My parents were administrative staff of the state university, and back then they gave hefty discount to staff's children. Maybe it was 1/2?

About what I paid for my children, I can look that up, but the numbers would be a few years old. What the current tuition is, one can look up on the Web, but now that I am past that phase, I don't care that much. :)

Darn, another admission that my "superior memory" is not what I like to brag about and show off.

PS. By the way, what I and my 3 siblings paid for the university was quite affordable due to that discount. No community college here. We all lived at home, and only moved out after graduation, so it was as cheap as can be, and our home was only a few miles from school. Plus, I had to live at home and worked to help my parents with the living expenses. Their pay was not that great. And we could not afford to live on our own anyway while still in school.
 
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The idea that one can get a degree in engineering or any of the lab sciences, while working, is preposterous.....

My sister got her Masters in Chemistry while working full-time. I got my MBA while working full-time (and was actually classified as a full-time student at the same time). Not easy... but not preposterous either.
 
No one is forced to pay $51,950 a year in college tuition. There are certainly state flagship universities where tuition is one-fifth that amount.

Look back at the quote - the "$51,950 a year in college tuition" he replied to was for tuition only. ...

....
COST PER YEAR TUITION AND EXPENSES FOR "THE" Ohio State University
Tuition and Fees In-state: $10,037 Out-of-state: $29,229....

Well, unless I have problems with reading comprehension, I think one of the schools with annual tuition less than one-fifth of $51,950 turns out to be "THE" Ohio State University unless you are trying to catch me with alternative facts. :dance:...

Last I knew, $10,037 was less that one-fifth of $51,950, so why is LOL letting Al off the hook?
 
Last I knew, $10,037 was less that one-fifth of $51,950, so why is LOL letting Al off the hook?
Because they agreed they had a problem with reading comprehension. You know it takes all kinds to have fun on the internet, so everyone else already saw the problem with someone's reading comprehension, so there is no point in making them look worse than they already do.

It was hilarious though to see the tuition for "THE" Ohio State University, wasn't it? :)
 
Because they agreed they had a problem with reading comprehension. You know it takes all kinds to have fun on the internet, so everyone else already saw the problem with someone's reading comprehension, so there is no point in making them look worse than they already do.

It was hilarious though to see the tuition for "THE" Ohio State University, wasn't it? :)


So I just went to THE Ohio State University page and it costs over $25,000/year to go there. So now we are at 1/2 vice 1/5. Things are definitely not easier for millennial's. The formatting is a bit messy but the figures are straight from the University.




 Direct educational expenses Total paid directly to Ohio State $21,716 Tuition and fees $10,010 Room and board (on campus) $11,706
Total indirect expenses $4,104 Books and supplies $1,234 Miscellaneous/personal $2,870
 
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