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Old 01-21-2015, 06:07 PM   #141
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Ha, how is your anti-curmudgeon therapy going?
As you no doubt see, haltingly.

Ha
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:13 PM   #142
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Yup. If they were as good as they think they are, word of mouth from existing clients would generate more business than they could handle on their own.......
If they were as good as they think they are, they would invest their own money, get stinking rich, and not have to put up with us peons.
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:14 PM   #143
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If they were as good as they think they are, they would invest their own money, get stinking rich, and not have to put up with us peons.
+1

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Old 01-21-2015, 06:35 PM   #144
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If they were as good as they think they are, they would invest their own money, get stinking rich, and not have to put up with us peons.
+2!!
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:53 PM   #145
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It was very interesting that they considered it a given that they all would beat the indexes and averages over time. It was such an obvious "truth" that there wasn't even any discussion about it. The one mention I saw was a comment that said something like "even if the indexes beat the plan, the investor will buy and sell at the wrong time."
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:52 PM   #146
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It was very interesting that they considered it a given that they all would beat the indexes and averages over time. It was such an obvious "truth" that there wasn't even any discussion about it. The one mention I saw was a comment that said something like "even if the indexes beat the plan, the investor will buy and sell at the wrong time."
Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

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Old 01-21-2015, 10:58 PM   #147
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This was my favorite:

Quote:
Try this rebuttle. "Even if the total rate of returns on index funds and some of the managed mutual funds out there are similar, without the help of a financial professional, most individuals end up buying and selling those index funds at the wrong times, and YOUR rate of return will almost certainly be much less than what I can provide you over the long term. Not to mention, you get access to a financial PROFESSIONAL, instead of having no one to turn to when you have questions or need help. I do agree with the above though. This type of client, unless he has a substantial amount of money, and even so, will probably be more of a problem than hes worth.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:25 AM   #148
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I didn't make it past "rebuttle",
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Old 01-22-2015, 05:43 AM   #149
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I liked the last sentence. I would definitely be more of a problem than I am worth.

I saw two interesting themes in the link. First, it was clear that the time required to possibly deal with a DIY investor is only going to take away time from other cold calls. They are looking for value for their time which seems primarily linked to the amount of time they spend making cold calls. I only saw one post where they mentioned the "experts" that were with his firm doing all the high value research that wouldn't be "practical" for a DIY to do -- What's their time worth? All of the unbiased research in the field says that these experts have no value.

The second theme brings up the broader expertise needed to handle personal finances in areas like insurance, taxes, portfolio draw-down strategies, succession planning, etc. This is probably more valid which is why fee only planners can make sense. I also believe that most people can use the many resources available to get this done without using a fee only planner unless they are in a very complicated situation. Of the people I know that have used planner that charge them a % of assets, none have told me about any help in this area. My favorite was a guy I knew that had a mini-stroke at age 68. He asked his planner if he had enough to retire. This guy had several million in his portfolio. The planner said that he thought he had to work at least to age 70 and they could look at it again then.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:09 AM   #150
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They had me at "I make a cold call" in the first post. All they would hear from me is "click."
They wouldn't even get a click from me. We don't answer the phone unless there is a recognized caller ID. (If it's important, they can leave a message.) To aid this, we also have phones that speak the caller ID info, so we can hear it anywhere in the house, and don't even have to look for the phone when a call comes (unless it is the rare occasion when we hear it is a desirable call).
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:13 AM   #151
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Wow, I never had much good to say about these "advisors" before but now I'm pretty shocked at their disdain for us DIYers. I read another " insider" blog to be alert to their marketing and just to see what's going on in that industry but never see comments like these. Jeez, if they hate people so much how do they stand to call us up? It must be awful to talk with someone like me, though I am the one to say " thankyouverymuch".
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:20 AM   #152
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Wow, I never had much good to say about these "advisors" before but now I'm pretty shocked at their disdain for us DIYers. I read another " insider" blog to be alert to their marketing and just to see what's going on in that industry but never see comments like these. Jeez, if they hate people so much how do they stand to call us up? It must be awful to talk with someone like me, though I am the one to say " thankyouverymuch".
I think their "disdain" is mainly due to us not being an opportunity for them. So we're best to be avoided.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:23 AM   #153
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I think their "disdain" is mainly due to us not being an opportunity for them. So we're best to be avoided.
+1

They don't want to waste time on anyone who isn't an easy mark.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:43 AM   #154
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.......... First, it was clear that the time required to possibly deal with a DIY investor is only going to take away time from other cold calls. They are looking for value for their time which seems primarily linked to the amount of time they spend making cold calls..........
And as I've mentioned before - 1% of a million is $10,000 or one hundred hours at $100 per hour. Do these guys seriously spend a hundred hours a year on a million dollar account? Do these guys seriously deserve to make $100 an hour?
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:54 AM   #155
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The sales type are scum. My DF was always a DIY Fidelity guy, he followed some subscription newsletter and did pretty well. Only active managed Fidelity funds, not suggesting he beat the averages or anything but he did well. Around age 93 he let that same company manage his funds and they were great to deal with. He had dementia at that point but was trying to hide it.
So DF is moving into AL, sells the house to my sister. Enter the neighbor an independent FA. He knows DF just collected ~200k from home sale. He sells DF on these great bond funds. They were class c pimco funds with a 1% 12B-1 and a 1% deferred sales fee. DF waited the year for the sales fee, my DS has now told the neighbor DF has dementia she has POA, DF isn't happy about funds, also tells him she knows absolutely nothing about investments. He asks for an opportunity to win back DFs trust. She let him put together a proposal, then emails it to me. Suddenly there's an additional advisor to the advisor and an additional 2% just for them. No idea what the investment is, I didn't get that far. It's a 3% rip off.

Really trying to con a demented old man and a self admitted ignorant POA holder out of 3%. Legal yes, right no!

DS asked if I could call the neighbor/advisor and explain why that was not where DFs money was going. He thought the whole family was ignorant or demented.
I did and managed not to tell him what I thought of his tactics.

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Old 01-22-2015, 10:04 AM   #156
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And as I've mentioned before - 1% of a million is $10,000 or one hundred hours at $100 per hour. Do these guys seriously spend a hundred hours a year on a million dollar account? Do these guys seriously deserve to make $100 an hour?
Scott Burns did a recent column on "unbundling" financial products and in it he compared FA costs to a CPA's time. With a $1MM account, it's next to impossible to need as much CPA help as you're paying to a %FA. The CPA might add value but a %FA is unlikely to add any.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:18 AM   #157
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MRG, that " advisor" is like something you would want to scrape off the bottom of your shoe! ICK!!
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:48 AM   #158
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+1

They don't want to waste time on anyone who isn't an easy mark.
Exactly!
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:37 AM   #159
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OK. We've established that FAs don't want to deal with ER types, and ER types don't want to deal with FAs.

Next.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:30 PM   #160
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OK. We've established that FAs don't want to deal with ER types, and ER types don't want to deal with FAs.

Next.
Well, there is a constant stream of new members arriving at this site. Threads like this serve as a handy cautionary note for them concerning the nice man who wants to buy them dinner and help them with their finances at no charge.

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