Social Security Spousal Benefit

[Martha]

I see what you are saying and it makes sense; the permanent reduction is there but it comes out of your own benefit. Do you have a citation for me? If not, I can pick through the regs.

[New Thinking]

Martha - If you have the appetite, the easiest way is to download the SS Handbook at http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/download.html

I don't recall exactly where it is laid out, but it should be in the handbook..It's just become second nature to me..It has amazed me how confusing the regs are and the misinformation that exists when we talk about such a critical component of seniors' financial security..

Until later.

[New Thinking]

PfPelican - Regarding:

RE: the "file and suspend"...as I understand it, when she hits FRA, at 66 (I'll be 6, I start my benefits, she starts the SPOUSAL benefit, then I suspend mine.* Do I have to receive any?* Does she just start the spousal benefit?* i.e.* I suspend, or ask SS not to pay any so I can get delayed credits...but how long after I file do I suspend?

No - You don't have to recieve any SS, you tell them that you want to file and immediately suspend your benefits..If they are unfamiliar with this, tell them it is laid out in Program Operations Manual System (POMS), Section GN 02409.100. Became available in 2000.

You will leave a nice survivor benefit for your wife if you predecease her since you will wait until age 70 to start.

[Martha]

Good idea New Thinking. *The handbook is much easier to use than the regs. *EDIT: Well, not much easier, though the handbook tracks the numbering system of the regs, it still does not give enough hypothetical situations showing what happens when you are eligible for multiple benefits.

Even though we have been a bit repetious on this thread, it is understandable given how muddy the SSA can make the waters. *

[Elderdude]

I received the following answer from the SSA. (Sorry, I didn't copy my question.):

Thank you for your inquiry.

The following information explains two provisions when an individual is entitled to his or her own retirement benefit and is entitled to additional benefits as a spouse.

1. An individual is filing for both his or her own retirement benefit and benefits on a spouse’s record at the same time.

One of the provisions of the Social Security Act provides that whenever an individual files for reduced retirement or spouse’s benefits, that individual is “deemed” to have filed for the other benefit as well.* Essentially, this means that if an individual is eligible for both retirement and spouse’s benefits in the initial month of entitlement, then he or she must legally be entitled to both benefits.* An individual cannot restrict an application in order to avoid the deemed filing provisions of the law.

2. An individual is filing for his or her own retirement benefit but is not eligible to file for spouse’s benefits on the husband’s or wife’s record until the husband or wife becomes entitled.

An individual can elect to receive his or her own retirement benefit as early as age 62, but the benefit will be permanently reduced for each month before the full retirement age.

If the individual is due additional benefits as a spouse, as soon as the husband or wife on whose record they are eligible starts receiving Social Security benefits, then the spouse’s benefits are payable.* A spouse receives one-half of the retired worker’s full benefit rate unless the spouse begins collecting benefits before full retirement age.* If payment of spouse benefits occurs before full retirement age, the benefit is reduced each month between the entitlement date to spouse’s benefits and full retirement age.

For example, based on the full retirement age of 66 (i.e., the full retirement age for people born in 1943 through 1954), a spouse may receive a percentage of the basic benefit of the worker.* The amounts payable follow:

Age* * * * * * Percent Payable

62* * * * * * * * * 35%
63* * * * * * * * * 37.5%
64* * * * * * * * * 41.7%
65* * * * * * * * * 45.8%
FRA* * * * * * * * *50%

However, if a spouse is taking care of a child who is under age 16, or who is disabled and is receiving Social Security benefits, a spouse receives full benefits, regardless of age.

Information about full retirement age may be found on our Web site at the following Internet address:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/retirechart.htm

If you are eligible for both your own retirement benefit and for benefits as a spouse, we always pay your own benefit first.* If your benefit as a spouse is higher than your retirement benefit, you’ll receive a combination of benefits equaling the higher spouse’s benefit.

For more information, you may call our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213, and ask for our publications called “Retirement Benefits,” publication number 05-10035 and “What Every Woman Should Know,” publication number 05-10127.* Our representatives will be glad to help you.* If you prefer, you can access these publications from the following Internet address:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/englist.html

You can file for retirement and/or spouse’s benefits online at our Web page below:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/applyforbenefits

[Martha]

Originally Posted by Elderdude

I received the following answer from the SSA. (Sorry, I didn't copy my question.):

Thank you for your inquiry.

The following information explains two provisions when an individual is entitled to his or her own retirement benefit and is entitled to additional benefits as a spouse.

1. An individual is filing for both his or her own retirement benefit and benefits on a spouse’s record at the same time.

One of the provisions of the Social Security Act provides that whenever an individual files for reduced retirement or spouse’s benefits, that individual is “deemed” to have filed for the other benefit as well.* Essentially, this means that if an individual is eligible for both retirement and spouse’s benefits in the initial month of entitlement, then he or she must legally be entitled to both benefits.* An individual cannot restrict an application in order to avoid the deemed filing provisions of the law.

2. An individual is filing for his or her own retirement benefit but is not eligible to file for spouse’s benefits on the husband’s or wife’s record until the husband or wife becomes entitled.

An individual can elect to receive his or her own retirement benefit as early as age 62, but the benefit will be permanently reduced for each month before the full retirement age.

If the individual is due additional benefits as a spouse, as soon as the husband or wife on whose record they are eligible starts receiving Social Security benefits, then the spouse’s benefits are payable.* A spouse receives one-half of the retired worker’s full benefit rate unless the spouse begins collecting benefits before full retirement age.* If payment of spouse benefits occurs before full retirement age, the benefit is reduced each month between the entitlement date to spouse’s benefits and full retirement age.

For example, based on the full retirement age of 66 (i.e., the full retirement age for people born in 1943 through 1954), a spouse may receive a percentage of the basic benefit of the worker.* The amounts payable follow:

Age* * * * * * Percent Payable

62* * * * * * * * * 35%
63* * * * * * * * * 37.5%
64* * * * * * * * * 41.7%
65* * * * * * * * * 45.8%
FRA* * * * * * * * *50%

However, if a spouse is taking care of a child who is under age 16, or who is disabled and is receiving Social Security benefits, a spouse receives full benefits, regardless of age.

Information about full retirement age may be found on our Web site at the following Internet address:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/retirechart.htm

If you are eligible for both your own retirement benefit and for benefits as a spouse, we always pay your own benefit first.* If your benefit as a spouse is higher than your retirement benefit, you’ll receive a combination of benefits equaling the higher spouse’s benefit.

For more information, you may call our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213, and ask for our publications called “Retirement Benefits,” publication number 05-10035 and “What Every Woman Should Know,” publication number 05-10127.* Our representatives will be glad to help you.* If you prefer, you can access these publications from the following Internet address:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/englist.html

You can file for retirement and/or spouse’s benefits online at our Web page below:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/applyforbenefits

Geez Louise.* The SSA just spits out canned info.* On another thread I posted this information from the SSA:

Originally Posted by Martha

This is from www.socialsecurity.gov:

Can my spouse collect benefits at age 62 from her work and earnings and then receive a combined total up to 50 per cent from my account when I start receiving benefits at age 65?
*
The answer depends on the situation. The following information explains two provisions when an individual is entitled to his or her own retirement benefit and is entitled to additional benefits as a spouse.

* *1. An individual is filing for both his or her own retirement benefit and benefits on his or her spouse's record at the same time.

* * * One of the provisions of the Social Security Act provides that whenever an individual files for reduced retirement or spouse's benefits, that individual is "deemed" to have filed for the other benefit as well. Essentially, this means that if an individual is eligible for both retirement and spouse's benefits in the initial month of entitlement, then he/she must be awarded both benefits. An individual cannot restrict the application to only one benefit when the deemed filing provision of the law applies.

* *2. An individual is filing for his or her own retirement benefit but is not eligible to file for spouse's benefits on his or her husband/wife's record until the husband/wife becomes entitled.

* * * An individual can elect to receive his or her own retirement benefit as early as age 62, but his or her benefit will be permanently reduced for each month before full retirement age. If the individual is due additional benefits as a spouse, as soon as the husband/wife on whose record he or she is eligible starts receiving Social Security benefits, then the spouse's benefit is payable. If payment of spouse benefits occurs before full retirement age, the benefit is reduced each month between the entitlement date to spouse's benefits and full retirement age.

http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...82994#msg82994

[haha]

When this thread reaches a complete, I hope it can be put in the Best of the Boards.

This stuff is incredibly complicated and you guys are doing a careful job of trying to explain it.

Ha

[Elderdude]

As promised, here is the reply I received from Microsoft regarding the problem I encountered with the Money software generating a "spousal benefit" where it appears there should not be one. I will not comment on the quality of the response except to say that it looks like Microsoft and the SSA have similar communication skills :

Dear Elderdude* ,

This is Judy* from MSN Money Online Support, and I'll be assisting you with your case today.

To give the most accurate support possible, I would like to give a brief summary of the problem as I understand it.

You have an amount entered in the planner for spousal benifits and your spouse is not collecting these benifits
.

If I have misunderstood the issue, don't hesitate to let me know.

I am sorry to hear about the problem you are experiencing today.I can help you with this issue.

Elderdude this is a know issue withthe software. To resolve this issue as a work around enter a negative amount for the amount it is showin gyour wife is receiving until she retires

Please email me at your earliest convenience and let me know the resuplts of the steps I sent* . If anything is unclear, please feel free to let me know. I look forward to your reply.
Our hours of operation are* 5 am - 9 pm* PST Mon to Fri
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 6 am -3 pm PST Sat and Sun
My hours of work are Mon to Wed 5am - 2 pm PST
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sat and Sun 6am- 3 pm PST
Best Regards,

Judy
Microsoft Finance Product Support Services

Delighting our customers is our top priority. Our managers welcome your comments and suggestions about how we can improve the support we provide to you. Please email us at
mailto:managers@microsoft.com?subject=Consumer_Fin ance_Online

If you have your case number, please provide it within your email.

NOTE: This Email address is not intended for interaction with the Support Professional working on your specific technical issue. For further help with your issue, please reply using the instructions listed above.

To provide additional feedback or to explore more support options, please visit the Microsoft Help and Support Website at:
<http://support.microsoft.com/money>

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hmm, so its a known problem that could cost someone tens of thousands of dollars if they made the mistake the software suggests, but it hasnt been fixed yet.

Nice job.

[d]

Delighting our customers is our top priority

CFB missed this!?

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Nah, i was fully delighted.

Dang...moved to the best of the boards before I could take the thread any further into the gutter.

BOOBS!

[Martha]

Are we done here? If so, I'll move this thread to the best of the boards section as Ha suggests.

[REWahoo]

Move it before it goes further downhill...