Friends are all broke!

I think far too many people spend far too much time worrying about what other people may think about their actions/lifestyle/life decisions etc.

Seems to me there is too much emphasis on conformity. Especially as it relates to retirement. We are at an age where we do our own thing. Don't care a fig about what other people may think about it. No reason to pretend about anything. After all, why on earth should we?
 
youbet said:
Paraphrasing OP's question to "do you have any friends or relatives who aren't exact clones of youself?" I'd answer YES.

While we've grown closest to folks whose values and actions trend with our own, DW and I find that as we've learned to accept the differences between people, and not be so amazed that people are different, we have more opportunities to enjoy companionship and relationships.

Sometimes we're with friends/relatives who have more (in one case, much more) than we do and that requires an acceptance, without jealousy, that they're going to be enjoying activities we can only dream about. We also have friends/relatives with less than us. We try to graciously remember that repeated invitations to join us (dutch treat) for fine dining or travel wouldn't show good manners on our part. We emphasize what we have in common, try to be flexible and not spend much time awkwardly living up or living down to suite others.



With some thought and observation, this is a weakness you can likely overcome if you wish to continue relationships with these "friends." Do you have anyone in your life who is significantly better off financially than you that you enjoy a positive relationship with? If so, think about how they're handling the situation where you're friends yet you can't afford what they can. Or, think about what you do have in common with friends of less financial means and how you can emphasize those things in your relationship.
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Great post. Value people for who they are and not what they have, and the rest falls into place.
 
I have 1 friend that I'm sure is better off financially (if only marginally). A few that "should" be, but choose to spend more on their lifestyle than I do, so they save less. I have one friend that I can't imagine exactly how badly he and his wife are managing to screw up their finances (military retiree + 6 figure job + wife's p/t low wage job... yet live in a trailer, recently filed bankruptcy, can't afford car repairs, etc).

Family-wise, both my siblings contribute to their retirement accounts (minimum to get full employer match) but otherwise don't tend to make smart decisions. I recently got a call from one of them asking if a personal debt consolidation loan to help tackle their credit card debt ($20k+) would be a good idea for instance. My other sibling is making pretty good money (now), but divorce, relatively low wages for a while, and other similar events have hampered his financial picture over the years.
 
My little sister and her husband both have worked for a Dow 30 corporation for over 30 years. Both have been in the six-figure club for a long time. The kids are grown; they live in the same house they bought in the early '80s for about $60k. In short, they are swimming in dough.

I sometimes ask sis (62 in March) when she and DH are planning to retire, but she smiles and says they like what they're doing. I think my BiL (who's 63) enjoys butting heads with management. To each his own.
 
The Other End of the Spectrum

I’ve been following this thread and, based on the title, viewing it from the “bottom” of the wealth spectrum, while considering myself very fortunate. But, a few recent posts made me think about our financial situation compared to our neighbors, many of whom are at the other end of the wealth spectrum....I mean 9-digit rich. It makes me think of wealth in a different way. And, I still consider myself very fortunate.

On a separate note, I don’t know if the old saying “The rich are different” is true but, I do know they give fantastic parties. :dance:
 
Alvin Tostig said:
GWhat I find as the BIG difference between the two groups - is that with the LBYM people they are astute and educated on asset allocation, the markets, savings accounts rates, etc. Talking finance is like a hobby for them.
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I just read all of these posts, and I think this is the most important comment as far as FIRE goes. I've met a number of people who were LBYM-types, and pretty good savers, but just never put it together regarding becoming FI. But I haven't met a single FIRE-type who isn't interested in financial subjects. I think that's the missing ingredient that allows people of regular means to become FIRE.

In my case I would never have said I was interested in finances. But at one point (early '90s) when I was going through a period of being unhappy in my job and feeling stuck, I picked up a book called something like How to Retire Rich or something like that. I won't say it gave me any secrets or answers, but what it did do was show me that I could read a dry old book like that (as opposed to my normal sci-fi or thrillers). I found the information and analysis interesting, and from there moved on to financial porn magazines and other books. All of this reading eventually gave me the information I needed to start investing more or less wisely. I also found my way to the Early Retirement forum on The Motley Fool, and from there to here. All of this information was critical in my becoming FIRE, so thanks to all of you.

But my point is, I don't think the average person/couple can become FIRE without at least some interest in the subject of finances. That doesn't mean they overspend or are financially all that foolish. I just think that the interest in the subject is what pushes us RE types over the finish line.
 
I really wonder about what seems to me a fixation with comparing one's status or wealth to that of others. What does it matter?

We only care about what we have, if it meets our requirements, and are we happy with it. Does not matter a fig to us whether we are in the top one percent or bottom one percent as long as we are happy and satisfied with our life.

I think we tend to judge people by their financial strength or their position. Both are fleeting. Just look at Bernie Madoff. There are much better measurement sticks available.
 
brett said:
I really wonder about what seems to me a fixation with comparing one's status or wealth to that of others. What does it matter?

We only care about what we have, if it meets our requirements, and are we happy with it. Does not matter a fig to us whether we are in the top one percent or bottom one percent as long as we are happy and satisfied with our life.

I think we tend to judge people by their financial strength or their position. Both are fleeting. Just look at Bernie Madoff. There are much better measurement sticks available.
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I agree. I am a little surprised that so many posters seem to know so much about their friends and family’s finances. I generally don’t know whether my friends/family are in debt to their ears or big savers. Agree that you can often assume things based on lifestyle but many here seem to be very much “in the know”. Maybe a little fixated on relative financial success?
 
Danmar said:
I agree. I am a little surprised that so many posters seem to know so much about their friends and family’s finances. I generally don’t know whether my friends/family are in debt to their ears or big savers. Agree that you can often assume things based on lifestyle but many here seem to be very much “in the know”. Maybe a little fixated on relative financial success?
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I think the answer is a little more simple really - for many people the old taboo of "don't talk about money" has gone away (much like many old ways of thinking). Talking about retirement accounts or funding kid's college tuition is a topic no different than discussing the latest gossip at work for many of the people I know; i.e. it's just another topic about life that people have in common to discuss and share.

I've found that those who aren't comfortable talking about finances these days tend to be those who are either:
A. Ashamed of their personal situation (not necessarily meaning they are low income or high debt as people in both categories I've found are comfortable with those things and not ashamed at all).
or
B. Just "old-fashioned". They were told it's something to not talk with other people about and so they don't, though they may or may not have any other rationale to come to that conclusion.
 
exnavynuke said:
I think the answer is a little more simple really - for many people the old taboo of "don't talk about money" has gone away (much like many old ways of thinking). Talking about retirement accounts or funding kid's college tuition is a topic no different than discussing the latest gossip at work for many of the people I know; i.e. it's just another topic about life that people have in common to discuss and share.

I've found that those who aren't comfortable talking about finances these days tend to be those who are either:
A. Ashamed of their personal situation (not necessarily meaning they are low income or high debt as people in both categories I've found are comfortable with those things and not ashamed at all).
or
B. Just "old-fashioned". They were told it's something to not talk with other people about and so they don't, though they may or may not have any other rationale to come to that conclusion.
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Yes you may be right. Maybe it’s also a result of much more discussion in the media about personal financial matters. All the self help “experts” ? Even these forums, I guess. Anyway, I generally don’t know or care about other people’s finances(other than my daughter’s somewhat).
 
We talk to each other about of finances. We discuss them, as appropriate with our financial advisor and with our accountant.

That is it. No one knows what our financial resources are nor is there any reason for them to know. And we certainly don't go around talking about these personal matters. Our two children do not know what we have or don't have. They will find out in due course.

Nor do we know, or even want to know, about the financial situation of our friends. They may comment from time to time but unless they ask a specific question we simply don't comment. It is strictly MYOB. Besides, why would I be interested in someone else's retirement accounts and why on earth would they be interested in mine (unless of course they were trying to lure me into some ponzi scheme or flake investment)?
 
brett said:
We talk to each other about of finances. We discuss them, as appropriate with our financial advisor and with our accountant.
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Since I act as our financial advisor as well as our accountant, it only leaves my DW as confidant. Luckily she is a CPA and understands everything. Actually, come to think of it, it is something quite “special and intimate” that we can share. No snarky or sarcastic comments please.
 
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What is surprising to me is that siblings often have greatly different outcomes. My wife and I are not filthy rich but we’re doing very well at 66 and 64. I’m fairly certain that our net worth exceeds - by a large margin - the combined net worth of the families of my seven siblings. How is that possible?

I’m certainly not boasting. Rather, I’m very sad to see that my brothers and sisters are so ill-prepared for retirement. Now, I will acknowledge that our parents provided a very poor example. But why was I the only one of a group of very intelligent siblings to overcome a poor start in life?

I’ve talked to other successful retirees from larger than average families. Many have the same story to tell.

On the other hand, I do know a few families - cousins - where most siblings achieved reasonable success. I do not know if they all saved enough for a comfortable retirement, but I don’t see a lot of sufferring.
 
I don't ask any of our friends about their financial strategy. I can certainly guess by how some of them live but unless they volunteer information, I never bring it up. I never divulge our FIRE status and where we stand with anyone other than my DW or kids. Normally, I wouldn't discuss it with the kids even but we happen to have two wonderful kids that are saving for retirement and doing extremely well for themselves.

In my experience as a few others have pointed out, while we have always LBYM and are now very happily FIRED, most people are to busy keeping up with the Jones and making sure they spend everything they bring in and more. I have seen many friends get in credit card trouble to "live for today". It's the "I want it all now attitude".
 
brett said:
I really wonder about what seems to me a fixation with comparing one's status or wealth to that of others. What does it matter?

We only care about what we have, if it meets our requirements, and are we happy with it. Does not matter a fig to us whether we are in the top one percent or bottom one percent as long as we are happy and satisfied with our life.

I think we tend to judge people by their financial strength or their position. Both are fleeting. Just look at Bernie Madoff. There are much better measurement sticks available.
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I've seen other similar threads lately. "Other people don't save enough." "Other people don't work hard enough."

We can only steer our own boat.
 
My brother called the other day and asked if I felt guilty. I'm like my being poor wouldn't make any of them any richer.

I try not to discuss money outside of these types of forums if I can help it, we live in a small townhome, drive used cars, no one needs to think otherwise. I do find myself saying we can't afford x,y,z...which, of course, is nonsense but its just a mode I got into.

Or maybe they wonder why one spends on new cars and vacations rather than saving for an inheritance or their grandkids college funds... etc. Some people are just really scared of running out of money, especially if you're worried about dementia or something other disorder that could make you broke very fast.
 
Danmar said:
Anyway, I generally don’t know or care about other people’s finances(other than my daughter’s somewhat).
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We treat people for who they are not what they have! One thing we have discovered is that people who drink a lot regularly (like every afternoon on the beach before the evening quaffing) tend to have less things going on in their lives. They tend to want to gossip. We like to discuss ideas.
 
North Texas Cajun said:
I’m fairly certain that our net worth exceeds - by a large margin - the combined net worth of the families of my seven siblings. How is that possible

I’ve talked to other successful retirees from larger than average families. Many have the same story to tell.
.
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I’m in the same boat. Have 4 sibs remaining. My daughter often says she can’t belive my sibs and I have the same parents. Education very different as well. One other sib has a batchelor’s degree while I have a CPA, MBA, CFA. We are just so different.
 
brett said:
Nor do we know, or even want to know, about the financial situation of our friends. They may comment from time to time but unless they ask a specific question we simply don't comment. It is strictly MYOB.
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Just last night, our friends revealed their financial dilemma.

They are retired for 10 years although they do write for a continuing cash flow.

They own a penthouse in PV, a ski place in Whistler, 2 condos in Vancouver, and a 1923 house in the west end (Kits).

Their son was removing all the asbestos in the 1923 house when they got a stop work order. It turns out that to make the house meet code, they need to rebuild it. Since they are asset rich and cashflow poor, this would require a huge mortgage. She is in her late 60s and he 10 years older.

We resisted offering any advise but probably will in the coming weeks. This is a violation of our practice. But they seem to need help. And are asking for it.
 
A fellow I w*rked with called to tell me he quit his job at Megacorp. He seemed upset as he doesn't feel his 75 yo mother is willing to chip in as much as he and his DW would like.
 
Danmar said:
Yes, it was quite a stupid, thoughtless question wasn’t it? I might have asked him back, no but do you feel ........
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I'm pretty sure that I would have blurted out something before my filter kicked in... :LOL:
 
People change. My daughter was a spendthrift growing up. Had to have the clothes with labels. Never paid attention to value. The whole nine yards.

Now married with children and a husband in business she surprised me when she said they were dropping a few lines because the margins were not high enough and replacing them with items that had high margin, high demand, and high turnover. She kept on talking percentages, inventory, turnover. Why are you paying this one so much, get rid of the bum, and why are you not giving this other one a very nice Christmas bonus because he is a star and works so hard.

I just about turned over. Now it's buy it at Costco, get it on line, forget the labels and give me quality product...clothing, housewares, whatever and deliver when promised (she lives in a small northern community).

Never thought that I would see that.
 
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