My retirement quandaries

[Rustic23]

REWahoo 1!

 

[retire2020]

How about working three/four months a year?.....May be one month each quarter. This can give you best of both world.
I just retired on 12/1/2016. I was in pre-sales technical sales and thinking about working last month of each quarter to help close my former MegaCorp deals when it's the busiest time. I do not know if I'll get an opportunity like that but I'll sure inquire about it if my former boss or recruiter calls. But all that after May of this year - taking full six months to celebrate!

 

[TNBound]

Now the biggest thing driving me towards retirement is time... just wanting to have the ability to completely control what I do and when I decide to do things. Also, I have seen enough friends and colleagues die to realize that dying on the job is something I'd like to avoid, if possible.

DW and I are both very healthy and active, and enjoy each others company... and we know at our ages (DW is 59), none of this is guaranteed to last. So the time element of spending as much time together as we can as a priority

So right now, the the major plus for me working is the amount I am paid for what I do. But at this point in our lives, time is more valuable than money... and time we have left is more unknown than the money we have. So more and more I want to focus on time, and choosing how I wish to spend it, because of that.

This sums it up almost to the letter for me. Friday was my last day at work! Woohoo!! I had a great paying job, but guess you could say I'd gotten uncomfortably numb doing it. So for me, I no longer could justify spending any more precious days sitting at a desk doing administrative work I no longer enjoyed or found value in. OP that part of it made my decision easier.

I understand much of how you feel though, but for me I honestly can't wait to have the time to follow my heart in growing my spiritual and humanitarian side. There are lots of things to do that can give you a sense of purpose. So between that, having a small garden for the first time, enjoying nature and a variety of physical activities, I'm ready to re-center and find the things that are really important to me without the time constraints of a job! Good luck to you!

 

[ER Eddie]

Cool, thanks for your input. I'm still sorting things through. Some of my main takeaways from this thread are:

• Two main factors in determining when to pull the plug: 1) how much do you like or enjoy your work, and 2) what else do you want to do, that work gets in the way of? It's the balance of those two.
• The time isn't right now. But I'll know when it is.
• Developing a social life when retired may be more challenging than I expected. Most people my age will be working.
• If you're not doing the things you imagine doing in retirement (and you could), isn't that a sign that you're not all that interested in them in the first place?
• Test drive activities. e.g., volunteering may not be all that fulfilling (ymmv).
• Maybe do something different entirely (e.g., artistic), rather than some variation on what you've been doing all your career.
• Have a good attitude about it; have confidence that it'll work out.
• Be grateful that you have both financial independence and a job you like.
• A lot of the small-scale jobs I have considered wouldn't provide the social aspect, so I may need to look elsewhere, perhaps teaching.
• If you're doing what you feel like doing, that's not "farting away time." That's using it how you want to.
• Maybe make a pro/con list.

 

[FreeBear]

Now the biggest thing driving me towards retirement is time... just wanting to have the ability to completely control what I do and when I decide to do things. Also, I have seen enough friends and colleagues die to realize that dying on the job is something I'd like to avoid, if possible.

DW and I are both very healthy and active, and enjoy each others company... and we know at our ages (DW is 59), none of this is guaranteed to last. So the time element of spending as much time together as we can as a priority, without having to schedule it around work and vacations, is becoming more important. That also applies to socializing out of work - I am by nature an introvert, but I have gotten more involved in things outside of work and have built up a fairly good social network. I have also the benefit of being from a large family that is still very close and friendly.

So right now, the the major plus for me working is the amount I am paid for what I do. But at this point in our lives, time is more valuable than money... and time we have left is more unknown than the money we have. So more and more I want to focus on time, and choosing how I wish to spend it, because of that.

Well said!!

Two years into FIRE, our expenses continue to drop slowly and the initial worries about money are subsiding in part because of the realization that we'll probably run out of health and time before we run out of money. It's a bit bittersweet how time seems to move so quickly in FIRE. Two years already well-lived, but gone so quickly. In contrast, time often slowed to a snail's pace at w*rk.

 

[ER Eddie]

Just a postscript to this thread. I talked a lot in the OP about the engagement, interest, and meaning I find in my work, and how this is a major motivator for me to continue.

Well, I decided to track my actual level of enjoyment/engagement. I ranked it day by day on 0 to 5 scale, with 0 being none at all, 3 being moderate, and 5 being very much (enjoyment/engagement). My ratings were always a 1 (a little) or 2 (somewhat).

So it turns out, I like my job considerably less than I thought I did (ha). Truth is, I go to work mainly for the money and benefits, and because the job is pretty easy right now. The other factors (meaning, engagement, interest, etc.) are nice bonuses, but they are secondary or tertiary factors. They aren't the big deal I thought they were.

Funny how something can sound so persuasive as an idea in my head, but when I look at my actual experience, it can be very different.

 

[sengsational]

There are lots of happiness studies that suggest when people are engaged (even if it's something they "don't like"), they tend to self-report as happier. For instance, they had one study where the study participants carried a device that would beep at random times and they'd enter how happy they were and what they were doing. Some people were surprised to see that their results showed them less happy "doing something they wanted", like loafing on the couch, versus solving a problem at work.

After reading this thread from the top, I realize how lucky I was to have the SuperMegacorp buy the Megacorp. My fulfilling and fun job changed rapidly enough for me to have a good reason to bail. It's like the difference between the lucky SOB who keels-over from a heart attack as opposed to having a degenerative disease that gets a bit worse each day; a long an painful march toward the inevitable.

 

[NW-Bound]

There are lots of happiness studies that suggest when people are engaged (even if it's something they "don't like"), they tend to self-report as happier... Some people were surprised to see that their results showed them less happy "doing something they wanted", like loafing on the couch, versus solving a problem at work...

When one is busy putting out a fire, he does not feel hot.

 

[ER Eddie]

There are lots of happiness studies that suggest when people are engaged (even if it's something they "don't like"), they tend to self-report as happier. For instance, they had one study where the study participants carried a device that would beep at random times and they'd enter how happy they were and what they were doing. Some people were surprised to see that their results showed them less happy "doing something they wanted", like loafing on the couch, versus solving a problem at work.

Yes, I remember reading about those studies in Flow -- or at least, that's what you're reminding me of. They called it the experience sampling method. Iirc, they found that even though people thought of work as less pleasurable, the actual experience ratings showed they were often quite engaged/interested (a type of happiness) while at work. Conversely, even though they preferred activities like watching TV, their actual level of engagement, interest, etc. was actually quite low at those points.

I did not do my ratings quite like that (being beeped at random intervals), but I got as close as I could, by paying attention to my actual experience day to day. In my case, I found the opposite. My actual experience was less enjoyable/engaging than I had been thinking of it.

After reading this thread from the top, I realize how lucky I was to have the SuperMegacorp buy the Megacorp. My fulfilling and fun job changed rapidly enough for me to have a good reason to bail. It's like the difference between the lucky SOB who keels-over from a heart attack as opposed to having a degenerative disease that gets a bit worse each day; a long an painful march toward the inevitable.

The frog in the gradually boiling water, yes. In my case, the water has cooled a lot over the past few years. That makes the decision to leave more difficult.

But yeah, in a way, it would be easier if things at work would suddenly just go to hell in a handbasket. Then I wouldn't have to weigh pros and cons and try to figure out the right timing. The decision would be made for me.

 

[DrRoy]

Eddie, while your post was long, and I have to confess that I do not always get through long ones, I found yours to be different. You articulated the "RE decision issues" very well and I may use the list for myself later. Like others who responded, I have considered many of the same concerns. I have 7 weeks left to RE, and while I have not figured everything out 100%, I am quite comfortable with stopping work soon.

We are similar in that my finances are in great shape, I get my work done in less than 40 hours/week, I am not all bound up in my career, and I have little social life outside of it. We differ though in that I have become less happy with what I am doing. I used to be almost entirely self directed and chose how and where to spend my time very independently. Lately, Megacorp has made a big push to expand the business, and I am now often told where to go and when, largely to new accounts, so I have lost a good bit of that element of control and generally working with customers where I know the people well. There is a lot of travel involved too and I am getting tired of it.

I do have various ideas for how I will spend my time, so I am not too worried about that part of it, although until I stop working I don't have the time to try them all out, as I have seen posted in this thread.

Compared to your situation, I think the biggest difference is my rising dissatisfaction with the job, making RE soon look more attractive now, in spite of the risks that you correctly raise. Good luck to both of us.

 

[Mdlerth]

Decisions, decisions

Dear Eddie,

I don't know whether this is off-topic or not, but I'll put it out there on the chance it may be comforting.

I once took a business course where they told us that people dislike making decisions. Whether it's what to order from the lunch menu to whether to get married, people recoil from having to decide. For all that we claim to want choices, we hate the process. It's in our nature.

Deciding is scary; it means responsibility and consequences. It means expending effort weeding through confusing data. It means change.

Strange as it sounds, we only undertake a decision when we have no choice. Weird, huh?

As an example, my megacorp has spent the past three decades bouncing from merger to aquisition, with a fresh one coming up. All my colleagues who are retirement-eligible tell me they are waiting on the next fusion to see whether they will be forced/enticed out in the ensuing reorg.

What those nice colleagues' words say is that they are holding out for a sweet severance package. What their actions say is they are procrastinating in hopes that some bigshot executive makes their decision for them.

Applying this reasoning to your situation -- and to mine, for I am just like you and every other human on the globe -- it sounds like you're not ready. So I counsel patience. The time will arrive, circumstances will evolve, people will come and leave, and when the decision is sufficiently non-threatening, you will know.

Pax vobiscum.

 

[ER Eddie]

I once took a business course where they told us that people dislike making decisions. Whether it's what to order from the lunch menu to whether to get married, people recoil from having to decide. For all that we claim to want choices, we hate the process. It's in our nature.

Deciding is scary; it means responsibility and consequences. It means expending effort weeding through confusing data. It means change.

Yes. Reminds me of The Paradox of Choice. The basic idea is that the more choices we have, the more paralyzed and unhappy we become.

https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice

Applying this reasoning to your situation -- and to mine, for I am just like you and every other human on the globe -- it sounds like you're not ready. So I counsel patience. The time will arrive, circumstances will evolve, people will come and leave, and when the decision is sufficiently non-threatening, you will know.

Pax vobiscum.

Thank you. Well said. I shall wait.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I retired completely and in 7 months I was offered a p.t. job teaching an online college course. I had never taught before and I love it. I found volunteering to be less rewarding than I thought. Mainly because you have many of the same crap as you did when you were working. I asked a friend of mine that was 10 years older how I would know when I was ready to retire and she said I would just know. She was right and I did.

 

[LivePassionately]

Mdlerth +1 for this post below. Never realized this distinction but this is pretty damn insightful and awesome !

Eddie - Good luck with your decision. The way you have stated each question with brutal honesty and humor is great. I have no experience with RE and in the planning stage myself as you know from my other thread. However, you seem like a deep thinker and hopefully this thread and suggestions from the good people here have been helpful.

I don't know whether this is off-topic or not, but I'll put it out there on the chance it may be comforting.

I once took a business course where they told us that people dislike making decisions. Whether it's what to order from the lunch menu to whether to get married, people recoil from having to decide. For all that we claim to want choices, we hate the process. It's in our nature.

Deciding is scary; it means responsibility and consequences. It means expending effort weeding through confusing data. It means change.

Strange as it sounds, we only undertake a decision when we have no choice. Weird, huh?


Pax vobiscum.

 

[haha]

Pax vobiscum.

A blast from the past!

Ha

 

[Retirement Nerd]

I'm kind of in the same boat. My goal (12 months to go and counting), is to retire from my profession and continue doing various things that interest me. Semi-retirement is what I am shooting for. I am already hearing the questions from people I have told. Like, "What are you going to do?" My answer: "Whatever I want."

I have some ideas, but all of them center on things that are outside my current profession (where folks usually retire from one place and just move to another similar place with similar headaches and demands).

I haven't told my co-workers yet, but I can think of at least one that will likely be jealous. But the reality is, that person probably has bills and responsibilities that are making him miserable. I can't control that.

 

[ER Eddie]

Yeah, I have coworkers like that, too -- not ones that would be jealous, but ones with bills and responsibilities that keep them tethered to the job. One is about 65, planning to work at least another 8 years, at work she doesn't particularly like. The other is almost 75, planning to work another 5 years at least, and again, at a job he doesn't particularly like. Both of them still have a lot of debt, primarily mortgage.

It's unfortunate, but I suppose they chose what was important to them, just like I did. They probably would not have been satisfied with my lifestyle, and I wouldn't have been comfortable with theirs. I'm glad I made different choices and have the freedom to not work, if I don't want to.


By the way, I like your avatar. It's a good reminder that all my hemming and hawing, my calculating and recalculating, my pro'ing and conning, doesn't matter all that much in the end. The destiny of the universe is probably not going to hinge on whether I retire at 57 or 58.