What does it mean to be "retired"?

[Nemo2]

Overall, retired beats rehired.

 

[Meadbh]

I define retirement as not having to be at the same place, at the same time, for the same amount of time, each day.

Those conditions would have applied to most of my working career. Just because I had a variable schedule in several locations didn't mean I wasn't working an insane amount!

 

[Options]

I agree with Midpack in that, before retirement, FI was my retirement goal. I did not want to be reliant upon an employer for my financial certainty and security (a sorry state if ever there was one).

After retiring, retirement is my researching/studying/thinking in the morning, a midday nap, then reading at my favorite cafe in the afternoon. Heaven, basically.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

My take, if it is really important to someone, for some reason, to be able to call themselves "retired," then that person is not yet retired.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." William Shakespeare.

 

[Focus]

Nothing special in this article, but it does illustrate how much "retirement" is being redefined (by the media, anyway).

Work a Little, Play a Little: A New Retirement Strategy

This did catch my eye:

Based on a 15-year period of data from the University of Michigan’s Health and Retirement Study, the most comprehensive national survey of older Americans, the share of people reporting “very satisfying” retirements dropped significantly from just over 60 percent in 1998 to under 49 percent in 2012.

Hard to know what's behind the drop, although 2012 was not too long after the economic crisis.

 

[HFWR]

1. 10 hours a week max (per "job").

2. Must be very satisfying and enjoyable.

3. No early mornings.

4. Full independence; no supervisor, politics or BS.

5. Conveniently located.

You forgot unicorns...

Yep, I'm retired.

Only five months FIRED, but I convulse at the idea of a "schedule"!

 

[Sunset]

If someone defines being retired as "any amount of work is ok so long as you want to do it and you are financially independent" then the "RE" part of "FIRE" is superfluous.

I think that being financially independent is different than being retired or being retired early. You can be financially independent (FI) but not be retired (RE). Likewise, you can retire (RE) but not be financially independent (FI). So, if you define retirement as being financially independent and you can work as much as you want, then the whole concept of retirement itself is superfluous because it adds nothing to the concept of being financially independent.

Not quite.
(FI) != (RE) != (FIRE)
Take Bill Gates 10 years ago, he was FI but worked his butt off so he was not (RE), but now he is still (FI) + (RE) = (FIRE).
For the wordy view:
You can be financially independent and still work at a job/career, later most folks would still be financially independent but cut out the work part by 80% or more and consider it to be retired.

 

[Sunset]

Funny how I had this conversation last week.
Retirement used to mean, finished work, sit by the lake and fish.
Pretty boring to me since I don't fish.
Now honestly I'm not sure what retirement really is, it's more like everyone has a different view of it, I do like the earlier comment how perhaps its like a spectrum and we are just somewhere along that line between working like a dog and freeloading.

Not being financially independent and not working could also be viewed as chronically unemployed.
Volunteering is simply working for zero dollars, so I see that the same as doing occasional paid work or selling a painting I created.

 

[rodi]

By a lot of definitions here - I'm not retired.... I have taken college courses in Italian that require me to be someplace 2x a week on a fixed schedule... Plus I have to study for tests. The fact that this was something I always wanted to do (learn a foreign language) and never had time to when working, I guess, doesn't matter. I consider it a hobby.

By a lot of definitions here - I'm not retired... I still have school age kids and need to make sure they get to school, get to to water polo, etc... Dang - I should have met my husband a decade earlier and had kids much earlier. But... I didn't meet my husband till my late 30's - and popped out my kids as quick as possible when we got married... Perhaps I should send them to boarding school so that I can fit some folks definition of retired.

Oh - and I do some drudgery every week... That laundry doesn't do itself, nor does the kitchen clean itself after dinner. Guess I'll never be retired.

But - almost 30 years as an engineer - 20 with one megacorp (although the corporate name kept changing due mergers/acquisitions/spinoffs) I gave notice and quit. I won't be working again as an engineer and have no plans to go back to work for pay.... So I consider myself retired even though I still have obligations in life.

My husband is in an even bigger quandary. He retired after decades of being a licensed architect. Turns out he can't call himself a "retired architect" because California legally restricts that term to people who pay a fairly large fee for a "retired architect" license. He can say he "retired after working as a licensed architect" - but can't say he's a "retired architect" without forking over money. Ironically - CA - land where every software engineer is an "architect" - the word "architect" is very encumbered - and all those software folks are in violation of state business code.

Retired License - California Architects Board
Pathways - Become an Architect - California Architects Board Career Website

 

[kcowan]

Rodi
I used to be a Professional Engineer but now I am just an engineer because I no longer pay a fee to be registered.

(Of course I stopped doing engineering work in 1971.)

 

[FUEGO]

My husband is in an even bigger quandary. He retired after decades of being a licensed architect. Turns out he can't call himself a "retired architect" because California legally restricts that term to people who pay a fairly large fee for a "retired architect" license. He can say he "retired after working as a licensed architect" - but can't say he's a "retired architect" without forking over money. Ironically - CA - land where every software engineer is an "architect" - the word "architect" is very encumbered - and all those software folks are in violation of state business code.

Retired License - California Architects Board
Pathways - Become an Architect - California Architects Board Career Website

Sorry to hear you're not retired!

I had the same quandary re: licenses. I called both boards I was registered with and talked through my situation.

The State Engineering board suggested I was too young to retire and filing for retirement is almost a one way street (requires approval from the whole board to reinstate after going to retired status). Much easier to stop paying the dues and drop into oblivion (license was "suspended"). I don't show up in their directory.

The State Bar asked that I file a petition to become an inactive member of the bar. Not retired exactly, but simply stopping the payment of dues would have led to some more serious consequences (disbarment?). So now I'm an inactive member of the State Bar for life I guess. I still show up in their directory of lawyers with a note that I petitioned for inactive status and I'm not currently eligible to practice law. The benefit is that I can take 30 hours of continuing ed and pay the hundreds (thousand?) of dollars fee to reinstate and then get my Saul Goodman on all I want!

 

[rodi]

Rodi
I used to be a Professional Engineer but now I am just an engineer because I no longer pay a fee to be registered.

(Of course I stopped doing engineering work in 1971.)

I never bothered with the PE stuff because my degree (BSEE) and profession (embedded software) didn't require it. But licensing in Architecture seems kind of important... same with civil and structural engineering.

The laws over the name "architect" crack me up - since an entirely unrelated field to building design (software) has co-opted the term and uses it regardless of the legality. I pointed that out to my employer's HR and they laughed and said it was the marketplace that dictates the titles... DH had to stop doing job searches using "architect" because they were 100% software.

 

[unclemick]

Never volunteer. Stay grumpy and curmudgeonly. 22 years.

heh heh heh - ok ok So even then one(aka me) gets nailed on occasion even if I don't want to admit it.

 

[Sunset]

Rodi
I used to be a Professional Engineer but now I am just an engineer because I no longer pay a fee to be registered.

(Of course I stopped doing engineering work in 1971.)

I am shocked at your Unprofessional status.

 

[rodi]

I just realized another reason I'm not really retired. We have a granny flat in our backyard (1bedroom detached cottage). So I have the work of cashing the rent checks each month.

DH does the maintenance when anything needs fixing. And I handle the tenant turnover projects (cleaning, advertising, interviewing, etc.) But our current tenants moved in right after I retired (2 years ago) so that work has literally involved using my credit union smart phone app to deposit checks.

So many reasons other people would think I'm not retired. But I would argue my life right now is a lot better than when I was working for megacorp.... and it sure feels like retirement to me.

 

[aja8888]

So many reasons other people would think I'm not retired. But I would argue my life right now is a lot better than when I was working for megacorp.... and it sure feels like retirement to me.

You should also mention how short the commute is these days!

 

[FUEGO]

I'm in the middle of reading Armada by Ernest Cline (of Ready Player One fame).

There's a character in the book that "retired" after making a killing in tech stocks back in the 1999 tech bubble, then cashed in and opened up a video game store that also trades in used video/PC games and has a "war room" for rent for LAN parties and online clan battles. The owner works very little, doesn't care about making a profit at his store, and considers a slow day a good day because he has more time to play video games. He's okay just breaking even or operating at a loss because it's fun to be in the biz. He wants to introduce the younger gamers to the video/PC classics and uses his store as part of that philanthropy.

Interesting take on "retirement" in literature. The guy is at his store probably 40+ hours per week but mostly plays video games all day. Is he "retired"?

(I haven't finished the book, so maybe the guy loses all his money due to exceeding a 4% SWR and has to go back to work and/or operate his store for a profit)

 

[harley]

Interesting take on "retirement" in literature. The guy is at his store probably 40+ hours per week but mostly plays video games all day. Is he "retired"?

(I haven't finished the book, so maybe the guy loses all his money due to exceeding a 4% SWR and has to go back to work and/or operate his store for a profit)

I won't spoil the ending, but he's definitely not retired. I read the book when it first came out because it sounded like a rewrite of one of my all time favorite SF movies - The Last Starfighter. It was not bad, and I read they had sold the movie rights. I hope they make the movie and do a good job. I still watch TLS occasionally. The incredibly cutting edge special effects now look more like special-ed effects. But it's fun to watch.

 

[2017ish]

Sorry to hear you're not retired!

I had the same quandary re: licenses. ...

The State Bar asked that I file a petition to become an inactive member of the bar. Not retired exactly, but simply stopping the payment of dues would have led to some more serious consequences (disbarment?). So now I'm an inactive member of the State Bar for life I guess. I still show up in their directory of lawyers with a note that I petitioned for inactive status and I'm not currently eligible to practice law. The benefit is that I can take 30 hours of continuing ed and pay the hundreds (thousand?) of dollars fee to reinstate and then get my Saul Goodman on all I want!

Tennessee is more difficult, from the application for inactive status:

1. I desire to have my license to practice law in Tennessee placed on exempt status;
2. Please check one of the following:

A. I am 65 years of age or older.
OR
B. I am inactive with the Tennessee CLE Commission; I am at least 50 years of age; and I
have not been practicing law in Tennessee for at least the past 15 years.​

Won't be able to meet either of those. More interesting for DW--trying to find a way for her to maintain board certification without being in medical practice (just to keep locums possibility in pocket for response to black swan event(s)). May not be doable; makes sense on one level, but a P.I.A.

 

[FUEGO]

I won't spoil the ending, but he's definitely not retired. I read the book when it first came out because it sounded like a rewrite of one of my all time favorite SF movies - The Last Starfighter. It was not bad, and I read they had sold the movie rights. I hope they make the movie and do a good job. I still watch TLS occasionally. The incredibly cutting edge special effects now look more like special-ed effects. But it's fun to watch.

I got the feeling that may be the case - that there is something more to his character. I'm only 11% of the way through the book so just getting started.

At least the superficial portrayal of him reminds me of many "retired" people I know.

My grandfather, for example, retired from his auto shop and gave it to his son when he was in his 70's. That didn't prevent him from going to the shop every day, drinking Miller High Life in the shop office while looking at girls in bikinis in the auto parts catalogs/mags. He probably turned a wrench every now and again just for kicks but I bet he spent more time peeing than working.

 

[FUEGO]

Tennessee is more difficult, from the application for inactive status:

Won't be able to meet either of those. More interesting for DW--trying to find a way for her to maintain board certification without being in medical practice (just to keep locums possibility in pocket for response to black swan event(s)). May not be doable; makes sense on one level, but a P.I.A.

So what do you do? Just stop paying the Bar fees and get disbarred? Have you called your state Bar to ask what the best move is? I have to imagine there's plenty that decide to take a long term hiatus from the practice of law before age 65 and don't want to wait 15 years to petition for inactive status.

If you wanted to maintain an inactive license somewhere so you could reinstate later, you could look into reciprocity and join a bar in a different state with liberal inactive rules (like NC apparently). From what I recall I only have to pay the fee to go active and take 30 or 45 CLE hours (so a couple thousand $ max probably).

 

[2017ish]

So what do you do? Just stop paying the Bar fees and get disbarred? Have you called your state Bar to ask what the best move is? I have to imagine there's plenty that decide to take a long term hiatus from the practice of law before age 65 and don't want to wait 15 years to petition for inactive status.

If you wanted to maintain an inactive license somewhere so you could reinstate later, you could look into reciprocity and join a bar in a different state with liberal inactive rules (like NC apparently). From what I recall I only have to pay the fee to go active and take 30 or 45 CLE hours (so a couple thousand $ max probably).

My firm will keep me enrolled for a year--hoping that I'll change my mind and do a little part time. And I'll double up on CLE so that I have it in hand for the calendar year after I quit. I'm a member of other bars, but in the unlikely event I ever need to practice again, it would be here.... (I took 15 years off previously to raise kids without much problem--but different state of licensure at that time and ended up doing half-time adjunct teaching.)

In our present situation, I'll likely keep it active for a bit (couple years?), then just tender resignation in whatever manner the Board deems most appropriate. Luckily, the cost to keep it in place is not much in our big picture.

 

[JonnyM]

Freedom

I retired from full time work in a government office, but still get paid for the occasional music gig. However, since music is my hobby I consider myself fully retired with the good fortune to occasionally get paid for a hobby that I enjoy.

Plus One

And I only play what I wanna play...