What to reply to "what do you do?" when FIREd

[haha]

azanon, I'm curious, are you just trolling, because if you are, I commend you for your subtlety and sophistication.....

I would fall over if Azanon is a troll. The negative attitude about social ambition which seems to be dominant on this board is I believe unusual in much of the world. If people have good educations, live in rich countries, and can get $100,000+ yearly incomes maybe they can afford to ignore class?

I grew up Southern. The only slur that is still widely acceptable, even in print journalism, is "po white trash". It may be less true today, but certainly when I was young a man did his children and especially his daughters a real service if he worked hard and tried to "get ahead". If he was a bit lax at this, his wife and in-laws tried to help him see the light. How can that be new to anyone?

Class stratification is everywhere. The Irish have "lace curtain" vs. "shanty" Irish. When a Finn says, "Hey, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck", he is alluding to a common stereotype, and letting you know that he has elevated himself out of a rural past

For those who may not know Spanish, my current sig means "The more you have, the more you are worth." This is a Mexican proverb, not my personal attitude. But the social reality expressed does not strike me as news.

Mikey

 

[laurence]

Mikey,

You are 100% correct about classism, but just because it's there doesn't mean I have to like it!

I have read enough of azanon's posts to know he's not a troll, just asking if he was playing devil's advocate/looking for a reaction. I will freely admit that I have the luxury of analyzing my situation and turning my nose to social climbing, since we (my wife and I ) have already reached a socially acceptable level. Points to ponder.....

 

[azanon]

No one is saying live in a dumpster or go without health insurance.  I think everyone would agree that you should ER if you are risking true poverty/destitution.

Oh really?  Then why have so many admitted on these boards they're having to skim, skim, and skim some more to get expenses low enough to not dwindle their savings?  Clearly, you dont read the boards here cause some absolutely are going without health insurance, many dont have but wish they could afford long-term health care.  And there has been several posts written with the concern of how to construct their portfolio to keep up with inflation for the next several decades.  

Dont kid yourself; several here who've pulled the trigger are worrying.  That much has been obvious to me.

If you are only comfortable with a house that impresses/intimitades your friends and associates, and a luxury car that does the same, that's your preference.

Impresses my friends?   How bout self respect.  I was given all the breaks in the world and you think i'm supposed to be able to live with myself by squandering all of those opportunities.  Again, maybe you can do that, but I cant.  Maybe that makes you stronger?  Who's to say.

And what's with "deserving of respect" ?  From who, you?  Who gives a crap what others think, especially if they judge you for material posessions?  They should judge you for who you are, not what you own.

Its a little kid that declares "I dont care what anyone thinks!"   Grow up.   You're not fooling anyone.  Most adults dont say that anymore cause they know everyone else knows better and wouldn't be fooled.  At least you picked up on the reality that there's several things the world "should" do.  We can talk all day long about how things should be over a beer;  would be a lot of fun.   When we're done endulging, lets go back to reality.  Leave the bar discussions at the bar.

I'm curious, are you just trolling, because if you are, I commend you for your subtlety and sophistication.....

I'm still employeed and have the nice house and car I spoke of, so what do you think?  I also have health insurance and dont worry whether i'm going to have enough tomorrow cause on top of savings, i have a paycheck.  

My current intention is to retire at 58 when i'll be eligible for both a federal pension and a SS suppliment (until i reach 62 for SS).  This to say nothing of a minimum 2 mil liquid portfolio I intend to have when that happens.  Absolutely not trolling, I plan to practice what i preach.  I will retire in both comfort and safety.

Subtle i'm not, and sophistated this isnt either.  I certainly dont consider myself Einstein simply cause I know it would be idiotic to retire with 1Mil in my 30s.  If my brashness keeps just one person from ruining their life, then i'd be worth it. 

Everybody has their idea of ER.  Mine is more conservative. 58 instead of 62, 65, or never like most americans.  A rather large retirement stream of income rather than Social security being the primary source.  I'm not an extremist.  For just about everything in my life, I think of balance.  Yin-yang.  The extremist are rarely correct.

If i have to work a little longer to have no worries, then so be it. Its the lesser of the evils for me.

On the topic, here's an msn article:  http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Retirementandwills/Retireearly/P106449.asp

 

[Dawg52]

I think we have already discussed the msn article. Anyone who could blow 1.5 mil in 7 years had to have been fully invested in tech stocks. Anyway, I plan to pull the trigger in 2 years with a little over a mil. Will be 53. I will not live like a king in retirement, but I don't now. The little things in life make me happy. I do have health insurance and a LTC policy, so I feel comfortable with my plans. 8)

 

[azanon]

I think we have already discussed the msn article. Anyone who could blow 1.5 mil in 7 years had to have been fully invested in tech stocks.  Anyway, I plan to pull the trigger in 2 years with a little over a mil. Will be 53. I will not live like a king in retirement, but I don't now. The little things in life make me happy. I do have health insurance and a LTC policy, so I feel comfortable with my plans.

Sounds great to me, especially if your primary residence is paid for.  Heck, i'd probably go with a 5-6% withdrawal rate until you reached SS age, then back it down to 3-4%.

I think we have already discussed the msn article. Anyone who could blow 1.5 mil in 7 years had to have been fully invested in tech stocks.

If Harry Dent and some others who've written on the topic of the impending deflation/depression in 5-10 years from now are right, this could happen to a great many people, not just those in techs. Again, someone pulling the trigger in a marginal situation, I only wish them the best of luck. If for no other reason, cause they're going to need it.

 

[Dawg52]

Hope I didn't come across as a smart ass. I agree that someone in their 30's would have a difficult time living on 1 mil for another 50-60 years. Putting a number on what it takes to retire certainly depends on age and lifestyle. This is a topic that could be debated until the end of time..........

 

[azanon]

Right, and I just want to emphasis i'm not trying to troll, but just bring some people back down to earth.  We're all really after just plain happiness right?  I'd almost risk saying that no one could be happy if they had to worry how their going to pay for their needs.  

ER is an incredible discovery so many never realize, but I'm just preaching be sensible, proactive, and think through it first.  Know that you have every base covered before you do something you cant undue.   And also, I would plead that no one get so callous that you really dont care what others think.  I'm of the opinion that mentality is sad and selfish.  If I really started not caring at all what others thought, i'd be divorced within a year, and probably effectively disowned in about the same amount of time.

 

[Eagle43]

Everybody has their idea of ER.  Mine is more conservative.  58 instead of 62, 65, or never like most americans.  A rather large retirement stream of income rather than Social security being the primary source.  I'm not an extremist.  For just about everything in my life, I think of balance.  Yin-yang.  The extremist are rarely correct.  

If i have to work a little longer to have no worries, then so be it.   Its the lesser of the evils for me.

Azanon, that's a logical and smart plan. Work beats worry; A salary allows your investments to grow. I remember the Voluntary Simplicity fad. You'd have a hard time selling that idea to the people I grew up with. They had involuntary simplicity and aspired to get voluntarily complex asap. Being poor sucks, er'd or not.

One thing I have said repeatedly, is get your medical insurance needs accounted for. In the U.S., it's a retirement fund drainer. Somebody, I think John Galt, is going "naked". Wish him lots of luck.

 

[azanon]

Being poor sucks, er'd or not.

I agree. Reminds me of a saying i heard once, "Those who say money can't buy happiness never had any."

 

[laurence]

Azanon,

I don't know what adults you hang around, or what parallel universe you live in, but as I've gotten older, the need to follow the herd, wear fashionable clothes, drive the right car etc. has become less, not more. I'm not saying live in a cave, I know I care very much what my wife thinks of me, and my daughter, and my close friends, but I have made a circle of companions that judge me by the qualities I wish to be judged, namely character, ethics, etc. etc. This conversation is beginning to become like any conversation on religion and politics. I'm a fish trying to tell a bird to swim, and vice versa, both feeling sorry for what the other is missing out on. No need to resort to telling me to grow up, though, I was just trying to flesh out your position, you seem awfully agitated, I think we are all among (cyber)friends here!

Disclosure: I plan on ERing between 45-48, with the house paid off and 1.5 mil in the bank, and pension kicking in at 65, I think I'll be quite comfortable, and not going naked, so perhaps our positions are not that far apart....

 

[Jarhead*]

OK, go right ahead and try to impress people.  Buy a Lexus, move to a ritzy 'hood, vacation on the Riviera, etc.  Have a ball, if it makes you happy.

Just seems like a rather sad and pathetic life to me.

You just described "Cutthroats" lifestyle.
He doesn't strike me as being either sad or pathetic

 

[azanon]

No need to resort to telling me to grow up, though, I was just trying to flesh out your position, you seem awfully agitated, I think we are all among (cyber)friends here!

.. as if you didn't instigate it.  You've been begging for me to respond to your argumentative rebuttals of my position, I finally did, and now you can't take it?  Again, if you're proclaiming you don't care what anyone thinks, you know what I think about that right?  Then again, you dont care so why are you complaining anyway?    

Disclosure:  I plan on ERing between 45-48, with the house paid off and 1.5 mil in the bank, and pension kicking in at 65, I think I'll be quite comfortable, and not going naked, so perhaps our positions are not that far apart....

Doesn't sound like it.  Sounds like a great plan to me.  I guess do as you say, not as you do is the motto you're shooting for?  I only opposed the extremist, recklass positions, not the reasonable ones.

 

[RockMiner]

Azanon,

I share your opinions about needing a margin of safety in ER finances, though perhaps not for all the same reasons.

It's pretty clear that some people who attempt this on a shoe string are going to end up regretting it. Just as some may find they went to extremes and saved more than they will ever need.

I would rather experience the second scenario than risk the former. Being without a good job when you need one produces the kind of cold chill I don't care to repeat. I think caution is not such a popular stance on this board but newcomers especially need to hear all sides.

For me it's just a practical issue of not wanting to live like a "Possum" if i can help it. None of the other societal factors enter into the calculation at all.

Rock

 

[laurence]

Azanon,

Ah, but I tried not to resort to personal attacks, I always enjoy a good debate, I promise I'm smiling the whole time. I also admit that the retire at 30 and hope the micro-crop doesn't fail is not for me, but if I could reach my financial goals before 45, I would retire earlier. My posts to you specifically were concerned with your definition of respectible, what others think of you, and in what circumstances you should care. I am guilty of stating my position stonger than absolutely neccesary, but goodness, so are you! You feel a moral obligation to pay back what you have been given, that's great. If everyone thought like that, this would be a great world. But buying the latest Gucci bag made in a sweatshop in China is not the only way to do that, and probably isn't the best way. I don't tell people to do as I say, not as I do. I tell people do what you want, period. If your only trying to say some people retired too early and are now living a poor life for it, I agree completely. That's why I sought out this board, tol find others who think about retirement and plan accordingly, and to hear from ER's about what costs to expect and plan for.

......aaah, forget it, this can only go poorly at this point, which was not my intention.

 

[Hyperborea]

I would rather experience the second scenario than risk the former.  Being without a good job when you need one produces the kind of cold chill I don't care to repeat. I think caution is not such a popular stance on this board but newcomers especially need to hear all sides.

I think a lot of the lack of popularity for caution is due to the selection bias. If 100 people are bold and take big risks (in market timing, real estate, whatever) and only a small number are successful then those who succeed are now convinced that it was their boldness that did it. They also then likely believe that anybody else who is also sufficiently bold will be just as successful. Of course, being in the small minority that succeeded is ignored.

This is not just in accumulation phase either. There are lots of "bold" things you can do on the withdrawal phase of early retirement like retiring with too little (or equivalently withdrawing too much). Again being lucky enough to have a great bull market buoy your finances or marrying into health benefits convinces you of the "wisdom" of your plan.

 

[ganda]

I'll have $50 on 'azanon' dying of a stress related heartattack aged 55 at 3 to 1, and $75 on this happening at the wheel of a Benz on the way to the office during rush hour at 7:2

 

[azanon]

Ah, but I tried not to resort to personal attacks, I always enjoy a good debate, I promise I'm smiling the whole time.

Well, you did suggest that maybe I was a troll, so I guess it comes down to whether you think name calling constitutes personal attacks.  So, eye for an eye there chief.

.. but I am wondering, isn't the definition of trolling someone that likes to instigate/fuel debates and smiles while doing it?  

I'll have $50 on 'azanon' dying of a stress related heartattack aged 55 at 3 to 1, and $75 on this happening at the wheel of a Benz on the way to the office during rush hour at 7:2

ROFL.  Damn good chance of that.  Alas, i'm type A for sure, can you tell?   I do workout though, and am in relatively good shape. That would really suck though.

Hmm, maybe I should just go ahead and buy that new 05' Scubby WRX i've been wanting.

 

[ganda]

I have a Scoob WRX and I'm not stressed Maybe you should buy one?

 

[laurence]

A-

This debate was raging before I got into it. I think we can all enjoy a debate and stick to the issues without being a troll, and technically I asked if you were trolling in this particular instance, because I just couldn't understand your point, it seemed like you were on the attack more than stating your position, just scratching my head. Even then I commended you for doing it in such a way that was not obvious, and in as much admitted I could not convict you of the charge. You have a viewpoint, and I vehemently defend your right to have it. I wasn't trying to get you hot under the collar, I was setting up straw men for you to knock down by clarifying your position. Curious, what's your line of work again?

 

[azanon]

Wow, what were the odds of that? I'm jealous.

I just get worked up too easy, I know. Its a real weakness of mine that I've been working on for years without a lot of success.

 

[azanon]

That's cool laurence. I also enjoy a debate, have fun with it, but like was just called out, I get all worked up sometimes too.

I am a biologist (GS-12) for the federal government. I'd prefer to not get too specific though .

 

[laurence]

that's cool, I am in computer security with the government, I also decline to get more specific .

Isn't the WRX the car that's fastest under 20 grand, or some such? 0-60 in 5.4 sec or some such? I hear it's best with the six speed manual box.

....and we glide away from the previous subject. This is the one pitfall with boards vs. face to face conversation, it's pretty impossible to pick up intonation, body language, humorous undertones etc from a keyboard!

 

[azanon]

Isn't the WRX the car that's fastest under 20 grand, or some such?  0-60 in 5.4 sec or some such?  I hear it's best with the six speed manual box.

I believe you're thinking of the Dodge SRT-4, though its a 5-speed.  The SRT-4 is probably a hair faster than the WRX, but the subaru is (opinion) just a better quality car.   SRT is about 21K now, a WRX is 25K ish.

I've test driven a SRT-4; that car is just insane. I couldn't help but laugh how ridicously fast that car is. It sure was fun though. But that plastic, neon feel just didn't do it for me.

....and we glide away from the previous subject.  This is the one pitfall with boards vs. face to face conversation, it's pretty impossible to pick up intonation, body language, humorous undertones etc from a keyboard!

Oh yeah absolutely.  Forums lend themselves to all kinds of misunderstandings.

 

[ganda]

I believe you're thinking of the Dodge SRT-4, though its a 5-speed.  The SRT-4 is probably a hair faster than the WRX, but the subaru is (opinion) just a better quality car.   SRT is about 21K now, a WRX is 25K ish.  

The Dodge is front wheel drive though. Yuck. I paid 23K (new) for my 02 WRX, mine is a wagon and slightly heavier so supposedly takes 5.7 seconds to 60 The 6 speed manual is only available with the STi (one up from the WRX) which is not available as a wagon I've driven a rally prepped STi and they are insanely super mad  

Anyway, I don't think you should buy a WRX - what would your neighbors think?!   That's what's important, right?

 

[laurence]

Whatever you do, avoid VW!!! My Passat turbo is fun and fast, but I have to take out an equity line on my house to get a tune up! I've been forced to learn how to do everything myself, fortunately my friend bought a universal error code computer thingy....the days of being a grease monkey are over man! If I ever get a new/different car, it will be a convertible. Living in San Diego, it's a totally worthwhile investment 8)