Anyone renting for life?

While buying a house isn't the right move for everyone, that doesn't apply to everyone. Mortgage, expenses, etc., for me were less than rent. Also, buying a house is more than an investment...it's a lifestyle choice.

Because if people won't rent a house as large as they would buy, then it's a meaningless comparison. If you want to fairly compare housing costs, then you must compare the cost of a house that you would buy if you were buying compared to what you would actually rent if you were renting.

I guess we should just stop discussing the whole rent vs own thing because it really does boil down to a lifestyle choice. I know how to compare the price of a rental with the price of a similar unit for purchase, but if you really can't then there's no need to even consider the price of either.
 
It's usually more costly when you first buy vs rent, but over the long term it's much better to own. I've rented many times when we moved to a new area so it's from personal experience. You don't get to pick the house or location. If you want corner lot, can you wait to rent for a corner lot. Most likely not. If you want a jacuzzi in the bath tub, you can have it. If you want rain shower you can have. Not with renting. There are many things not accountable in these buy vs rent trade off.
 
Last edited:
We had people make comments asking if we spent all our money travelling, lost it in the market, etc. Some could not imagine why anyone would rent.

There's definitely a huge stigma surrounding renting among the traditionalist middle or upper middle class folks (like many of the posters here!). "What, you can't afford a house?"

You can see the bias in favor of owning right here in this thread, in spite of evidence that numerically speaking, it's not always the right choice and in fact could be a very expensive "lifestyle choice" to own instead of rent.
 
I guess we should just stop discussing the whole rent vs own thing because it really does boil down to a lifestyle choice. I know how to compare the price of a rental with the price of a similar unit for purchase, but if you really can't then there's no need to even consider the price of either.

I also know how to compare prices. However, the reality is that people make different choices when renting or buying, and it would be foolish not to take them into account when discussing options. You have the opinion that people would rent the exact same house that they would buy rather than rent a smaller one or choose an apartment instead. That's not the case.

Have a nice day.
 
I doubt we'll even own again. The reasons are mostly financial, but even if we had the cash for one, that's a lot of money to tie up in a risky, poorly performing vehicle. Add to that the amount of time that gets sucked up for maintenance and it's just not worth it for us. Maybe, *maybe*, someday, if the situation was right, I can see us in one of those tiny homes. But that's about it...
 
There are positives and negatives for renting and for buying. A person's expenses in retirement will almost certainly be lower with a paid off home to live in than if the same person were renting. That makes retirement more affordable than if the same person had to pay the full rent for a similar place (assuming the rent costs enough to be profitable for the landlord, i.e. covers the mortgage and upkeep etc).
 
Last edited:
Also, buying a house is more than an investment...it's a lifestyle choice.
Actually I call home ownership a lifestyle expense. In the early days, it is about the only source of financial leverage available. But once the mortgage is paid of, it become a large lifestyle expense that demands constant feeding of money.
 
I also know how to compare prices. However, the reality is that people make different choices when renting or buying, and it would be foolish not to take them into account when discussing options. You have the opinion that people would rent the exact same house that they would buy rather than rent a smaller one or choose an apartment instead. That's not the case.

Have a nice day.

I think we all experience our own form of reality, with lots of different flavors. I've had several rental houses next door to me and across the street, and all those people chose to rent the exact same house I own. Then the rentals sold to owner-occupants who all currently live there. I just can't comprehend how we can't compare the rental price the tenants used to pay versus the purchase price or current price for those exact same houses. Obviously those people chose to rent and some others chose to buy the exact same properties.

You have a nice day too. It's been an ugly couple days in ownership-ville here - plumbing back up in the main line, HVAC guy out yesterday, and I'm currently calling roofing contractors for a complete tear off and replace job. Fun times! Still makes sense for me to own.
 
Real estate is all about location. When I post my thoughts on real estate, I'm always thinking of California, HCOL areas, with good employment. In those areas, I would buy. In other areas of California like Lancaster or Palmdale, you lose money buying, at least one guy I know lost money.
 
IMHO, renters can make our fine if they take all that money they don't spend over the years on repairs, maintenance, gardening, various 'improvements, remodels, etc. etc. etc. and invest it wisely in the kinds of financial products that people here have profited from. The problem them comes down to a lifestyle choice. As a homeowner for many years, I obviously have made the choice, but I would never claim it was not an expensive choice.

The big disadvantage in my mind of renting is that you can be booted from your home by the owner - "Sorry Joe and Jane, my brother-in-law is moving to town and I will be renting the place to him". OTOH, taxes, insurance and maintenance have gone up so much on my current property, that I may choose to move to a lower cost of living city. Name your poison.
 
Actually I call home ownership a lifestyle expense. In the early days, it is about the only source of financial leverage available. But once the mortgage is paid of, it become a large lifestyle expense that demands constant feeding of money.
It depends on location. If you bought in London like my SIL did, she paid GBP 35,000 in the late 60s, now that same house is going for GBP $3.5 Million. She paid cash originally. She can't even afford it now.
 
It's been an ugly couple days in ownership-ville here - plumbing back up in the main line, HVAC guy out yesterday, and I'm currently calling roofing contractors for a complete tear off and replace job. Fun times! Still makes sense for me to own.

Yeah, home ownership can be expensive. I'm very fortunate that I bought just before a major boom...my house almost quadrupled in value just 4-5 years after I bought it. It was like winning a lottery. At the current prices, I'd be out of luck owning anything decent in a nice neighborhood if I was to buy today. Now, I'm sitting on a nice asset that can be sold at any time if circumstances change.
 
IMHO, renters can make our fine if they take all that money they don't spend over the years on repairs, maintenance, gardening, various 'improvements, remodels, etc. etc. etc. and invest it wisely in the kinds of financial products that people here have profited from. The problem them comes down to a lifestyle choice. As a homeowner for many years, I obviously have made the choice, but I would never claim it was not an expensive choice.

The big disadvantage in my mind of renting is that you can be booted from your home by the owner - "Sorry Joe and Jane, my brother-in-law is moving to town and I will be renting the place to him". OTOH, taxes, insurance and maintenance have gone up so much on my current property, that I may choose to move to a lower cost of living city. Name your poison.

Assuming buying vs renting the same "type" of house (size, location, quality, etc), you can generally assume that the items you don't pay for when renting "maintenance, upkeep, etc" are costs that are already included in the rental price (or else the landlord is taking a loss every year and not many successful landlords would do that). Things you don't spend money on which an owner might (remodeling etc) are things you either "do without" or likely pay more to live in a place where the owner did them as a general rule.
 
Assuming buying vs renting the same "type" of house (size, location, quality, etc), you can generally assume that the items you don't pay for when renting "maintenance, upkeep, etc" are costs that are already included in the rental price (or else the landlord is taking a loss every year and not many successful landlords would do that). Things you don't spend money on which an owner might (remodeling etc) are things you either "do without" or likely pay more to live in a place where the owner did them as a general rule.

I don't know - seems like a lot of "professional" landlords buy a house or three in high COL areas, fund the negative cash flow for a few years, and cross their fingers for a real estate boom. Sometimes it works magically, other times... well, there's always discharge of indebtedness in bankruptcy and/or non-recourse loans (in some states). See, for example, the period just before 2007 and the period just after 2007. :D
 
Yeah, home ownership can be expensive. I'm very fortunate that I bought just before a major boom...my house almost quadrupled in value just 4-5 years after I bought it. It was like winning a lottery. At the current prices, I'd be out of luck owning anything decent in a nice neighborhood if I was to buy today. Now, I'm sitting on a nice asset that can be sold at any time if circumstances change.

You can do much better with renting and saving the difference between rent and ownership. Just buy the winning stocks that will go up 5-10x and you'll be much wealthier renting rather than owning.
 
bought a home, obama gave me $8000 tax credit. Then the mortgage and insurance deduction...then I sold it for $50,000 more than I bought. sure I paid realtors, but I basically had a free place to stay for two years and enough cash for another downpayment. of course instead I took some of it and moved to an island where the rich retired people live. now THAT was expensive. came back mainland and bought a home 3x as large as what we rented on-island of the same price... have since realized 6% annual return...we haven't spent more than $2000 on repairs...sure there is water salt, trash, yard care, etc but if I wasnt doing that I'd be spending $$$. If you can turn your home into a rental after done using it as a home it then remains an investment vehicle that provides liquid cash....provided the notes paid.
 
You can do much better with renting and saving the difference between rent and ownership. Just buy the winning stocks that will go up 5-10x and you'll be much wealthier renting rather than owning.

Well, that assumes that I would have been smart enough to pick the right stocks. :LOL:

But, when I bought, prices were so low that mortgage, taxes, maintenance, etc. on my house was less than rent, so I would have been ahead even if the house hadn't appreciated in value. However, today, it's the other way around.

And, a house is lifestyle choice for me...I've always wanted my own house, I enjoy the chores and projects, and 2 of the loud rock bands that I play in rehearse in the basement. :)
 
You can do much better with renting and saving the difference between rent and ownership. Just buy the winning stocks that will go up 5-10x and you'll be much wealthier renting rather than owning.

I've read that renting and saving the difference generally comes out ahead versus renting (putting aside somewhat exceptional circumstances).

However, I haven't run the numbers and one thing that I've been curious about is how much leverage impacts the comparison. You're essentially using leverage when using a mortgage to buy a house. If you rent and invest only the difference, does that match up favourable to buying a house with a big mortgage? And how does that comparison match up if you use leverage for investments. And how much do interest rates impact the comparison.
 
+1

In addition to all the other apple-vs-orange observations, this aspect of ownership is critical for me. I can do virtually anything I want in my own house; I couldn't in the apartments I rented.

Intangible benefits are tough to quantify but they are no less genuine than the $-based ones.
You two are comparing owning a home to renting an apartment. I also enjoy jamming with friends. One friend rents a house and has friends come over to play live music, with no complaints. Another owns his home, but gets complaints from one neighbor in particular when he feels the music is too loud. And that complaining neighbor rents the house next-door. (And then there's the new neighbor on the other side, who tore down the old early 1900s house and built an ugly box that totally obstructs whatever view my friend once had on that side of his home.)

I live in a nice apartment now, but for many years I rented one floor of a nice 3500 SFT home; and the homeowners spent many months of the year RVing, so I had the place pretty much to myself. And the rent was relatively cheap. But I can't count how many times the neighbors' barking dogs, or a leaf-blower, or lawn-mowers disrupted my peace. Home ownership does not necessarily isolate you from things some renters may experience.

As many have said, it's a lifestyle choice, and does not always come down to $ vs. $. And if I feel like jamming, I can always go over to a friend's house, play, then go back to my quiet apartment.
 
Last edited:
In other areas of California like Lancaster or Palmdale, you lose money buying, at least one guy I know lost money.
Not me. That's where I owned my rental houses, that I did well from. Two were in Lancaster, and one in Palmdale. I bought in during the real estate boom of the early 2000's. When houses in LA were becoming harder to afford, property in the high desert was still affordable to many. As LA buyers who could no longer afford to buy in Los Angeles bought there, it helped to drive the price of property up. I imagine that local folk also hurried to buy, as they saw prices go up swiftly.

My friend got in when it was still possible to purchase a 3 bedroom family house with 5% down and achieve a small positive monthly cash flow from the rent. I came along a year later, by which time the market had begun to rise, and had to put 10% down on each property in order to cash flow positive. I sold them all about 18 months to 2 years later for a good profit (at the peak of the market, as it later turned out).

I don't know the Lancaster/Palmdale market very well, as I was only in it for a short while. I imagine that when things go south, they go further south, and for longer, than in Los Angeles, but the market does follow the fortunes of it's bigger sibling to the south, though not exactly at the same time.
 
Last edited:
Here's another take on the rent vs own debate from a 30-something early retiree: Renters For Life - Go Curry Cracker!

He's very much in favor of renting. He mostly travels the world full time (he's posting pics of crepes in Paris right now :) ) but sets up camp for 6 months to a year occasionally (like that time they made a baby in Taiwan). The places he rents are typical as nice or nicer than my house, that's for sure! I can't remember the numbers on his Taipei apartment rental but it was something like $1000 to $1300/month for a $600,000 value apartment.
 
...Now, I'm sitting on a nice asset that can be sold at any time if circumstances change.

Actually, this is one of the reasons we rent, believe it or not. IMO there is or shortly will be a big glut of 4-5 BR nice, suburban houses as the Boomers retire and look to liquidate their family homes to downsize and fund their retirements .. already seeing this in some HCOL areas of CA that are very suburban/exurban.

I don't want to be on the wrong side of that equation and would rather wait until we know for sure how much house we need (kids out of college and living someplace relatively permanent) and be able to buy something smaller or one of those larger places at a steep discount.
 
Actually, this is one of the reasons we rent, believe it or not. IMO there is or shortly will be a big glut of 4-5 BR nice, suburban houses as the Boomers retire and look to liquidate their family homes to downsize and fund their retirements . already seeing this in some HCOL areas of CA that are very suburban/exurban.

I don't want to be on the wrong side of that equation and would rather wait until we know for sure how much house we need (kids out of college and living someplace relatively permanent) and be able to buy something smaller or one of those larger places at a steep discount.
You can use the same argument for stocks. And one thing nobody has factored in is real estate purchase from rich foreigners.
 
Last edited:
Not me. That's where I owned my rental houses, that I did well from. Two were in Lancaster, and one in Palmdale. I bought in during the real estate boom of the early 2000's. When houses in LA were becoming harder to afford, property in the high desert was still affordable to many. As LA buyers who could no longer afford to buy in Los Angeles bought there, it helped to drive the price of property up. I imagine that local folk also hurried to buy, as they saw prices go up swiftly.

My friend got in when it was still possible to purchase a 3 bedroom family house with 5% down and achieve a small positive monthly cash flow from the rent. I came along a year later, by which time the market had begun to rise, and had to put 10% down on each property in order to cash flow positive. I sold them all about 18 months to 2 years later for a good profit (at the peak of the market, as it later turned out).

I don't know the Lancaster/Palmdale market very well, as I was only in it for a short while. I imagine that when things go south, they go further south, and for longer, than in Los Angeles, but the market does follow the fortunes of it's bigger sibling to the south, though not exactly at the same time.
This guy I know in 2011, he still claimed he lost money on a house he purchased in Palmdale/ Lancaster area for $80k.
 
Back
Top Bottom