Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-14-2011, 02:52 AM   #21
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 131
I had a bunch of inspirations. Until I was 24 I was pretty clueless about money and figured that all I needed was to go to work like everyone else. What changed my outlook was

1) Realizing how the credit based money system works. I thought it was outrageous that not all money is earned, but that some money is credit that banks create at no cost to themselves. This was from reading the essay "I want the world + 5%".
2) Reading the Cashflow Quadrant by Kiyosaki. I know many people love to hate him. As with everything, it depends on where you're coming from and what you take away. For me, I learned that "You can make a living by making money with your money instead of your time". Prior to this, money was only for spending. To others, this insight is probably trivial, but I used to work for my money and everybody I knew worked for their money. Other options were unknown.
3) Joe Dominguez (Your Money or Your Life) who increased the efficiency of his life-energy expenses enough to become FI at 30.

Following this, most of the money I earned was saved rather than spent. In retrospect, I wish I had learned of this when I got my first job at 12 so I wouldn't have wasted so much of my life buying stuff---mostly electronic toys and gadgets---in pursuit of temporary consumer highs. At least I found out before I dedicated my life to owning the largest house I could afford. That would have been a tragedy for sure.

Can you catch someone's attention? I'm not so sure. I think you can reach someone if they're ready to listen. Keep in mind that most 20something are bombarded with messages about using their credit cards to travel and taking on student loans so they can earn tons of money. Within a decade they will be bombarded with messages about how they should spend all the money they make on mortgage and car payments. Retirement beyond taking the company match will enter their minds much much later. ER will likely only be incidental.

The best I can suggest is "show, don't tell". Most people here should be in a position to do this. One problem about our culture is that finances are taboo. It's perfectly okay to show off your $35,000 sportscar. However, it is not acceptable to talk about your six or seven figure bank account.

Anyway, it's a really interesting problem ...
__________________

__________________
FI@30, ERE@33.
jacob is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #22
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by infoseeker View Post
He currently has no debt, no dependents, and does not spend much of his income, so, until his financial/life/career situation changes, would it be wise to advise him to contribute the max allowed to his TSA (Is that $16500/year for him?)
If he does not spend much of his income, I don't see the problem either way. Life is not all about retirement. When I was 22, I bought a house. I only contributed to a Roth IRA and just enough to get the 401k match in my early 20s. However, having a 4br house paid off before having kids has allowed my wife to stay home with them and still save for retirement. If I hadn't spent that money on a house in my 20s, we wouldn't be able to max out two Roth IRAs, one Roth 401k, and put some aside in 529 plans on one income through our 30s.
__________________

__________________
lrak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 01:26 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob View Post
The best I can suggest is "show, don't tell". Most people here should be in a position to do this.
I think that is easier to do if your kids need money, or if they see you as being exceptionally successful. In my case at least, an early but frugal retirement does not light up many lights for them. I think they believe that my concentration on an early but frugal out was a mistake.

Their models are people who through their own efforts become very wealthy, not some guy with 1.x to 5.x million and no current economic or social power.

"I used to be a contendah" is a sad and perhaps pitiful emotion to many young men and women. It wasn't to me. I remember an old man who had a run down farm, with a good sized pond surrounded by wheat fields. We used to go there and shoot doves in the late summer, then chat and share a nip from a bottle we brought for the guy, while we dressed the birds. I though his life was about perfect, though now I see that it was likely lonesome. I can't remember if he was married, or perhaps his wife had died. We always sat outside on the cistern slab.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 07:06 AM   #24
Recycles dryer sheets
popowich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rochester
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by infoseeker View Post
Wow, what an ER opportunity for all you young pups out there if you start saving now!
2 years ago, but still... Yes, I've been working on my younger brother and got him to make one Roth IRA contribution. Same deal for my sig other, she is making her first this year. Better late than never. Why not show them what you have saved and how much more money invested money generates?
__________________
popowich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 08:55 AM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Their models are people who through their own efforts become very wealthy, not some guy with 1.x to 5.x million and no current economic or social power.
This is part of the problem. The media has a tendency to show the 1 in 100,000 (or 1 in 1,000,000) person who made it big. It also shows that person's lifestyle as it is today, not how it was 10+ years earlier. If today's youth could see how the celebrities they worship started out (struggling waiter/waitress, bartender, bouncer, janitor, construction worker, etc...) they would be far less inclined to believe that they'll achieve the same remarkable success. There are far more "millionaires next door" than there are celebrity millionaires. The former just keep a lower profile because being famous isn't necessary for them to earn a living.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 09:45 AM   #26
Full time employment: Posting here.
Calgary_Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 775
I would say talk to your children about FIRE if they truly show an interest in it (without their eyes glazing over) .

As for myself, I was always interested in FIRE and I opened an RRSP (Canadian equivalent of a ROTH) when I was 17 .
__________________
I can only be nice to one person today! Today is not your day...tomorrow doesn't look good either.
Calgary_Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 01:01 PM   #27
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary_Girl View Post
I opened an RRSP (Canadian equivalent of a ROTH) when I was 17 .
Minor point of order: The Canadian equivalent of a Roth IRA is the TFSA. The closest equivalent to a 401(k) is the RRSP (although it doesn't need to be employer-sponsored).

I tend to agree with the old adage that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I think setting an example is the best approach, and if they express an interest, be ready with reading recommendations. Encourage questions, and focus on how much more relaxing and enjoyable life is, now that you're FI.
__________________
kombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 08:21 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by kombat View Post
Minor point of order: The Canadian equivalent of a Roth IRA is the TFSA. The closest equivalent to a 401(k) is the RRSP (although it doesn't need to be employer-sponsored).

I tend to agree with the old adage that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I think setting an example is the best approach, and if they express an interest, be ready with reading recommendations. Encourage questions, and focus on how much more relaxing and enjoyable life is, now that you're FI.
To add to this wisdom. Keep an open line of communication regarding money. Most importantly, do not be judgmental about spending. If your son doesn't affirmatively ask for advice, you can occasionally offer some advice using the phrase "Do you mind if I make a suggestion?" Then follow up with your advice - being careful not to criticize the choice your son initially made - and closing with "but it's your money and I'm sure you'll do what's right for YOU." Essentially, a soft-sell that allows your son to come to the conclusion on his own.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 09:09 AM   #29
Full time employment: Posting here.
kaudrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Alexandria, Va
Posts: 941
As my dad did with me, you can talk about investing and saving for a rainy day without going right to an ER discussion. Starting the savings habit at soon as you are in the working world is something every 22 year old should be taught, IMO, even if there isn't a defined long-term goal. Also, since he asked you, he is obviously open to the conversation. Good for him, and you!

As soon as I graduated college, my dad told me I should invest as much as I can in the TSP, and save outside of it for emergencies. Of course, my parents lived their whole lives below their means, and it rubbed off on us kids, so it wasn't really an issue. I opened a Schwab account at 21, and I've been investing in that and the TSP for 20 years. At 21, I wasn't thinking about where I would be at 41, but I knew that saving consistently would give me a level of financial security that was important to me.
__________________
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one less travelled by...
kaudrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 11:10 AM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rustward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eager Beaver View Post
The great irony, of course, is that you have to be extremely diligent, disciplined and hard working to become a self-sustaining lazy person. I'm sure there is humor to be found in that statement, somehow... I'll let you know if I see it, 25 years from now.

Maybe I'm weird, my GF tells me that my mind has aged twice as fast as the rest of me...
... and 25 years from now if she is still telling you that your mind has aged twice as fast as the rest of you . . . you will realize what a compliment that is.
__________________
Rustward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 12:39 PM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustward View Post
... and 25 years from now if she is still telling you that your mind has aged twice as fast as the rest of you . . . you will realize what a compliment that is.
Funny, but I take his gf's statement as a bit of a warning - don't focus so much on FIRE that you forget you're young and can pretty much do anything at age 25. While its wise to save, being spontaneous (e.g., whisk her off on a romantic trip, but don't tell her where she's going) will keep her far happier than knowing that you'll be able to retire early.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 12:07 AM   #32
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 15
23 myself.

Been interested in finance as a lifestyle ever since I started working 5 years ago.

Had to stop school and work for a few years only, but will be able to start up at least part-time schooling again this fall.

Have slow progress since I have to pay for classes myself.
But hopefully will be able to get into a job that will offer help to go school etc.


I want to be a financial advisor, and specifically in addition to other degrees receive the Registered Investment Advisor designation.

I am the only person IRL my age that I have ever met really that is interested in this type of stuff.

I enjoy talking with old people about this stuff, and I get a kick out of them being blown away by the fact that I like this stuff as a high school student(when I first started talking about this stuff).

Most of the middle-aged people I know besides my parents don't have much to speak of in terms of retirement accounts etc. But to their credit most of them do not have debt.

This subject is a very foreign thing to most Millennials (20-somethings)
but is something that they need to take very seriously.

I try to tell most of them to consider Social Security as something they will just talk about as a part of their kids history books, and to not count on any help.

I also try to help them understand the importance of using their youth and time they have as well as the vast resources within the Internet to aid them in learning what they need to do.

I have helped many start investment accounts/IRAs.

I tend to recommend Sharebuilder since it is the one I use, but most of it is just a way to show them the benefit of starting account and keeping up with the discipline of investing.

Even though most don't want to do much now, I have hope for them that they see the problems within the economy/political happenings and will seek more out as they get older and more established in jobs.

They have all expressed the desire to seek me out over the years to help them put their money to use and help them with where to go etc.

I don't really want to be the one personally handling their accounts, as I do not wish to jeopardize our friendship. But will help them get great help.
__________________
SunGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2011, 05:14 AM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 68
I am not sure what you can tell someone that will have any solid outcome. When I was a teenager, I was already fired up about saving, investing, buying vs. renting, income streams, etc. And then... life happened, and bit by bit I drifted away from that until I was paying 1/4 of my pay every week just to extend the due date on pay-day loans until next week... when I'd pay another chunk of money to extend them again...

Then I got a better paying job, ditched the loans, and started it all over again with credit cards. Hundreds of dollars a week went down the drain paying interest and penalties on stuff I had bought months ago. I couldn't even remember what the debt was for, but I still had to cut a check to pay off just enough to get by until the next month. Anytime I made some headway on our debt, an "emergency" would come up, and we would promptly max out all of our credit again.

Why did it happen? It's not because I lost the desire to have money! It's not because I had a head injury and forgot how to do compound interest calculations or how to work out a savings plan on an Excel spreadsheet. It happened because, somewhere down the line, I decided that I was a worthless person who had to buy the affection of others or risk being alone for all my life.

Deep down, I always knew it was the wrong thing to do, but that just reinforced my negative outlook - after all, who but a REAL screwup keeps doing something wrong when he knows better? That HAS to be the sign of a loser... so I guess I better keep paying for all this stuff I can't afford to distract people from just how big a loser I am...

It was impossible to say "no" to people. What if they didn't like me? What if she left me? What if...? What if...?

Despite all my hard earned knowledge from my teenage years, gathered from reading investment books and making an almost fanatic study of internet sites like this one, I ultimately failed to put any of it to effective use.

So, knowledge doesn't always do much good, no matter how much of it you have or how early in your life it comes to you. You have to have the strength to use it, too, and not fall into the cycle of self-defeat that other people, who have no cares about the future, will do their best to drag you into.
__________________
Joshua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 11:16 AM   #34
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12
Wow, great advise from everyone. It's good to see that you seem to be advising your kids on their finances at an early age. I'm sure they will thank you for it later.
__________________
Luckygem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 11:01 PM   #35
Dryer sheet aficionado
Eager Beaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
So, knowledge doesn't always do much good, no matter how much of it you have or how early in your life it comes to you. You have to have the strength to use it, too, and not fall into the cycle of self-defeat that other people, who have no cares about the future, will do their best to drag you into.

Your statement really speaks to me. I tend to operate under the assumption that my knowledge will lead to resolve when times are tough, no matter what happens. Stories such as this, coupled with some of my own prior mistakes, make me less confident that this will be the case.

Indeed, I doubt my resolve without the support of those closest to me and without a potential support group for consultation when things don't go my way. To that end, I feel very grateful for this board. I trust many members here to know the right path.

I agree, knowledge itself is nothing without resolve and a backup plan. Parents can teach the first, life will eventually teach you the value of the second.
__________________

__________________
eager beaver - n. Informal - One that is exceptionally, often excessively industrious or zealous: "The eager beavers of industry seldom reach their potential, much less rise to the top" (Newsweek).
Eager Beaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pay attention grasshopper grasshopper Hi, I am... 8 10-10-2010 09:13 PM
Lightning - got our attention Rich_by_the_Bay Other topics 28 07-30-2009 11:53 PM
There's something about turning 50 that makes you pay attention! hguyw Hi, I am... 10 03-08-2008 06:16 PM
Attention current and former USN Sailors: Fireup2020 Other topics 1 03-13-2007 10:13 PM
Attention Landlords - advice wanted trumpeting_angel FIRE and Money 21 08-31-2004 06:57 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.