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Old 02-13-2014, 10:45 AM   #41
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Low-Carb/High-Fat appear to be the unwanted step-child of the various ways of eating. I rarely hear the same level of disapproval when talking about vegetarianism, veganism or the low-fat approach. Yet, it seems to have a very high success rate among people who practice it properly.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:53 AM   #42
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IIFYM Calculator

"If it fits your macros" implies that, once you meet the requirements for protein and fat, the rest can come from any source. Active people may need more carbs than less active, though it varies with the individual.

I calculated my TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) at around 2239 kcal; my weight is 174 lbs, which I'm happy with re: bodyfat, which I estimate at 16-20%, though it hasn't been measured.

Results are: Carbs = 210g, Protein = 174g, and Fat = 78, though, as IIFYM opines, once the protein and fat requirements are met, the rest could be filled however, and not necessarily with carbs. I've found it's difficult to eat 174g of protein, without a protein shake or two...
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:24 PM   #43
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I did that 10 years ago. Had high fasting blood glucose and
really bad chol. and my triglycerides were over 500. Bought
a glucose meter and eliminated anything that made my blood
sugar go up. Lost 30 lbs and have been normal since.
The dr. back then wanted to start me on the drug program
but I decided to see what I could do first.
My new dr says "What ever you are doing, keep doing it"
Back in October I was put on a small dose of metformin but at my last follow up he decided to further lower the dosage. He plans to take me off the medication at my next visit if the glucose level remains the same.

He primarily attributed the big drop in glucose level to the diet and exercise.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:38 PM   #44
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I too started on Metformin but have been off it for about 5 years. Last A1C was 5.8.
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:15 PM   #45
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What interests me is that since we were so much thinner and diabetes was hardly an epidemic in the 60's,
why not simply go back to the way we were eating at that time?







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Old 02-13-2014, 02:38 PM   #46
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When I ate lots of carbs I was always hungry and reaching for more snacks. Higher levels of fat and protein (with fairly low carbs) leaves me far less hungry. The key outcome is that I never have to consciously portion control. I eat as much as I feel like eating and stay at a very low, very stable weight. Consciously focusing on portion control would be an endless and hopeless task for me and, I gather from the pathetic results, for most people.
I don't really think so. I don't think most people do focus on portion control.

There is no doubt that if one severely limits carbs for a sustained period of time, that weight loss will almost surely result in one who needs to lose weight. There is also no doubt that if one severely limits, say, fat for a sustained period of time, that weight loss will almost surely result in one who needs to lose weight. Whenever anyone severely limits any macronutrient this is coupled with a limitation of total calories eaten.

I have eaten low carb in the past. Last December I also went gluten free for the month to see if I was sensitive to gluten (I'm not). For the first 2 weeks of the month I was also very low carb, basically eating almost all my carbs from veggies. No grains at all and no fruit. I found it hard to get up to 1000 calories a day. Even when I added in non-gluten grains and some fruit I found that I usually stayed under 1200 calories a day.

So, yes, restricting carbs will often result in consumption of less calories. I have no doubt the same would happen if I, say, decided I was going to eat 10% fat.

For me, though, I have found that I'm not particularly sensitive to carbs and not sensitive at all to gluten. I do avoid eating refined carbs and limit my added sugar. However, I'm fine with eating things like fruit and whole grains. I find that eat about 120 carbs (plus or minus 20 carbs most days), which is close to about 90-100 net carbs a day. I do watch my overall portions - I track and record my calories every day - and that works better for me than severely restricting carbs or fat. In practice, I end up with a low-moderate carb intake.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:15 PM   #47
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I've seen people succeed with just about every diet out there and I've seen people fail with all of them too. Radical diet changes are often successful just because they are radical changes that break well ingrained bad habits. Most snacking has nothing to do with hunger, it's just habit and availability. Portion sizes are a habit. Meal times are a habit. I'm always amused when visiting the in-laws on the other coast. About three hours after east-coast dinner, my appetite informs me that it's time for (California) dinner!

The Paleo or "high fat" diet doesn't really lend itself well to mindless snacking. Mark Sisson admits that some people fail on the diet and notes that they are often people who eat a lot of olives, nuts, and cheese. You could argue that there is some mystery, gluten-like "toxin" in these foods causing weight gain, but I'd be more inclined to blame easy, mindless eating, myself. It's not nearly as easy to whip up a steak and sautéed vegetables for a mid-afternoon snack. If you look at his menus, it's clear from his books that Sisson is a pretty disciplined guy who eats modest portions of protein and plenty of vegetables which is a perfectly reasonable diet.

"Paleo" to vegan, the human body is pretty flexible. Meat has pretty good nutritional value for it's calorie count, but grain, not so much. However, omit either one from your diet and you'll still do fine. Include either one in reasonable amounts and you'll also do fine. OTOH, historically the US and UK have had bad, bad sugar habits for centuries. Sugar (honey, agave, maple syrup, etc.) is just calories and appetite enhancement without any nutritional value at all. Cutting it out of your diet can do nothing but help.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:33 PM   #48
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Crash dieting is doomed to failure, because the body adapts to this radical reduction in energy input by going into starvation mode. Better to reduce calories by 10-20% max.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:44 PM   #49
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Crash dieting is doomed to failure, because the body adapts to this radical reduction in energy input by going into starvation mode. Better to reduce calories by 10-20% max.
I'm not sure what you mean by "crash dieting" but many people severely misunderstand starvation mode. It is true that as you cut calories the body may somewhat decrease its metabolic rate so that you burn fewer calories than you would burn if you had not cut calories (this is called adaptive thermogenesis). Some people (not saying you are one of them) misunderstand this and think that "starvation mode" means that you can't lose weight at all and that you have to then eat more food in order to lose weight. That is not correct. If you have a calorie deficit you will lose weight. And, even if your metabolism slows a little bit due to calories being cut, you will still lose weight if you are eating fewer calories than you burn.

I like this article for talking about this issue in a balanced way and points out that what most people think of as "starvation mode" is a myth (it also acknowledge that adaptive thermogenesis is real):

Starvation Mode: Is It A Myth? Is It Real? Is Your Body In It Now?
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:46 PM   #50
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Many places have bun-less options these days.

I'm partial to Three Guys and Wendy's bunless burgers. They come in a nice tray and are easy to eat with a knife and fork.
What do you ask the cashier for? And do you mean 5 Guys?

I make a cheeseburger salad. Big bowl of mixed greens and veggies with a chopped up hot cheeseburger which warms up the salad just enough for me to still want one in the winter, without wilting the greens. Top it with a mix of guacamole and salsa for the dressing. Use beef, salmon or mahi burger, depending on how decadent I feel.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:52 PM   #51
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There doesn't have to be a choice on the menu; just ask.

DW and I have been ordering our burgers, bbq, etc. "with no bun" for years, at all sorts of restaurants, all up and down the scale. We have never even seen a raised eyebrow.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:23 PM   #52
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I'm not sure what you mean by "crash dieting" but many people severely misunderstand starvation mode. It is true that as you cut calories the body may somewhat decrease its metabolic rate so that you burn fewer calories than you would burn if you had not cut calories (this is called adaptive thermogenesis). Some people (not saying you are one of them) misunderstand this and think that "starvation mode" means that you can't lose weight at all and that you have to then eat more food in order to lose weight. That is not correct. If you have a calorie deficit you will lose weight. And, even if your metabolism slows a little bit due to calories being cut, you will still lose weight if you are eating fewer calories than you burn.

I like this article for talking about this issue in a balanced way and points out that what most people think of as "starvation mode" is a myth (it also acknowledge that adaptive thermogenesis is real):

Starvation Mode: Is It A Myth? Is It Real? Is Your Body In It Now?

Perhaps the terminology is less than ideal, and as your link indicates, you will always lose weight with a calorie deficit. But cutting calories too drastically will indeed slow your metabolism, and likely zap your energy levels, and create an internal war with hunger that makes sticking to the diet much more difficult... One doesn't gain weight overnight. Better to reduce gradually.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:32 PM   #53
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When at home, I use romain hearts for bread. You gotta be able to put stuff on it...whatever you'd use if you were going with bread.

When I'm out doing fast food, I tear off the bread, take a bite, tear off more bread, take a bite, etc.

The reason I avoid carbs is because if I don't, my appetite shifts into eating more. Anyone that considers this topic without considering appetite is missing it; a calorie is not a calorie if one type of calorie causes your appetite to shift.

Back to the original recent post that got this thread revved up... YMMV, but for me, eating no fat dairy (plain yogurt) revs up my appetite and eating the full fat dairy doesn't. Simple as that for me.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:41 PM   #54
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What do you ask the cashier for? And do you mean 5 Guys?
D'oh, yes 5 Guys.

Just ask for bun less. At 5 Guys they also ask if it's an allergy or not, which is nice. They are extra careful if you celiac (my wife does). Me I don't care.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:46 PM   #55
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Anyone that considers this topic without considering appetite is missing it; a calorie is not a calorie if one type of calorie causes your appetite to shift.
+1

One also has to consider the food that contains the calories. Some foods cause the body to quickly store calories as fat, thus causing a calorie deficit. The body then demands more food to make us this deficit. Other foods short circuit the satiety signal to the brain causing the brain to think the body still needs food. No doubt there are other biological mechanisms that cause us to gain or lose weight. This varies from individual to individual and we each have to find what works best.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:52 PM   #56
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I'm partial to Three Guys and Wendy's bunless burgers. They come in a nice tray and are easy to eat with a knife and fork.
Uh oh. I didn't know they had that option. You may have created a monster.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:01 PM   #57
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I can't keep track of the food do's and don'ts, which are always changing.

All I know is that since I quit overindulging in the kiddie sweet stuff I have always loved loved (cakes, cookies, candy), my dentist has commented on how much healthier my gums are. And I never told her I'd changed my diet.

(I don't actually "feel" any better or worse with the sweets or without them).

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Old 02-13-2014, 05:03 PM   #58
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Ah, Wendy's. My weakness is the Son of Baconator. I get it with no bun and no mayo, so that makes it only about 430 calories.
I will occasionally have one for lunch when I'm on the road, and consider it a treat. My favorite fast food junk.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:07 PM   #59
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Ah, Wendy's. My weakness is the Son of Baconator. I get it with no bun and no mayo, so that makes it only about 430 calories.
I will occasionally have one for lunch when I'm on the road, and consider it a treat. My favorite fast food junk.
I understand. Once a month or so I give myself a "day of dietary decadence". On that day (while it has to remain gluten free) I pay no attention to health or calorie issues.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:59 PM   #60
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I've been low carbing for over 10 years, going right into this way of eating from 2 years as a vegan. DH, a type 1 diabetic, joined me over 5 years ago. We don't view this as a "diet" to lose weight, but as a healthy way to eat. We try to focus on "good" fats when they taste as good as the alternative, but don't shirk away from eating a chunk of really nice cheese or eating whole fat dairy. Mostly we focus on a Mediterranean type approach based on low glycemic veggies, but feel zero guilt at eating bacon or beef. I don't measure anything, simply eating as much or as little as makes me feel satisfied, though not full.

Personally, and this does not apply to all, I have a serious problem with higher glycemic carbs. Even something that most consider healthy like brown rice, the real type you boil for an hour, sends me into carb cravings that would rival cravings of a drug addict going through withdrawals. Needless to say, being vegan is not for me. Finding low carb has been a huge relief for me.
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