A New Look at Fat in the Diet

[LazyErik]

I looked at the study. I was so hoping that they were going to recommend a pound of bacon a day. Oh, woe is me.

 

[Chuckanut]

So full fat dairy helps keep our weight down?? I am shocked! Shocked!

The Full-Fat Paradox: Whole Milk May Keep Us Lean : The Salt : NPR

 

[Walt34]

I've just learned to tune out all those "this/that/the-the-other-thing is bad for you" because of all the turnarounds. I rather doubt anyone knows with absolute certainty. Sure a diet of only beef will make you sick but so will one of only celery.

All things in moderation.

 

[AllDone]

When I was a kid, a regular McDonald's burger was 1/10 of a pound. My mom brought home a new item one day. We laughed and laughed at the idea that any family could possible consume an entire two liters of soda. The brand new house that my affluent parents bought in 1968 had a one car garage. Snack foods have proliferated. There have just been a lot of cultural changes in diet over the last 50 years.

Although fat consumption as a percentage has dropped since the 60s, the total amount of fat consumed has stayed pretty stable. People have mostly added carbohydrates. I don't think that macronutrient breakdown is nearly as important as portion control for weight loss although some people may find they feel less hungry on higher fiber or higher fat content.

 

[Katsmeow]

Although fat consumption as a percentage has dropped since the 60s, the total amount of fat consumed has stayed pretty stable. People have mostly added carbohydrates. I don't think that macronutrient breakdown is nearly as important as portion control for weight loss although some people may find they feel less hungry on higher fiber or higher fat content.

This is about right I think.

 

[retiredatfifty]

I dropped twenty pounds pretty quickly & kept it off by dramatically reducing my carbs & sugar by about 75% of what I used to - and instead eating lots of eggs, meats, cheese, fish, salads, & cooked veggies. I also try to avoid processed foods. (I'll make carb exceptions without guilt when we eat out which isn't often.) Diet change combined with exercise three days a week & I am now at a very healthy weight & as fit as I've ever been in my life. And I certainly don't go hungry.

So now I'm wondering if & when they are going to tell us they were wrong about cholesterol? I tried one of those medications a few years ago & decided the side effects weren't worth it to me. I'm fairly skeptical at the widespread popularity of cholesterol lowering drugs. Think about it ---- big pharma came up with a new pill for millions of people to start buying in their 30's thatthey will take every day & buy for the rest of their lives that will supposedly prevent heart disease. There's gotta be a lot of economic motivation for them to hype a product like that.

 

[donheff]

Although fat consumption as a percentage has dropped since the 60s, the total amount of fat consumed has stayed pretty stable. People have mostly added carbohydrates. I don't think that macronutrient breakdown is nearly as important as portion control for weight loss although some people may find they feel less hungry on higher fiber or higher fat content.

The last part makes a huge difference for many. When I ate lots of carbs I was always hungry and reaching for more snacks. Higher levels of fat and protein (with fairly low carbs) leaves me far less hungry. The key outcome is that I never have to consciously portion control. I eat as much as I feel like eating and stay at a very low, very stable weight. Consciously focusing on portion control would be an endless and hopeless task for me and, I gather from the pathetic results, for most people.

 

[Corporateburnout]

+1

I am having a similar experience. Another 5 pounds to lose max, and I will be done with weight loss and should be able to eat a few high carb things a week without having to worry. That's in addition to ample servings of non-starchy veggies every day.

+2
I started a low carb diet by eliminating bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, pizza, cereal and all fried foods from my diet back in October when I was diagnosed with diabetes. I also reduced my beer intake and occasionally substituted it with a glass of wine at dinner.

This diet along with an increase in exercise regimen of daily 45 minutes to an hour walk/treadmill and two hours of tennis twice a week helped me lose 22 lbs and I'm now 5 lbs away from my ideal weight. My blood glucose level dropped to non diabetic level and I feel great and never hungry.

 

[Mr. Paul]

I don't worry about fat ... I pay very close attention to carbs. I've been at a steady 162 pounds for 5 years after hitting a high of 218. Nowhere close to Atkins low carb approach but I try to limit my intake of carbs at any one time to 30 to 35. Main thing I eliminated were the "stupid carbs" .... McDonalds, huge bowls of ice cream and the like. No way I could have gotten these results without becoming, and staying, physically active.

In my opinion any talk about the unhealthiness of a McDonalds hamburger starts with the white bread bun.

 

[donheff]

I don't worry about fat ... I pay very close attention to carbs. I've been at a steady 162 pounds for 5 years after hitting a high of 218. Nowhere close to Atkins low carb approach but I try to limit my intake of carbs at any one time to 30 to 35. Main thing I eliminated were the "stupid carbs" .... McDonalds, huge bowls of ice cream and the like. No way I could have gotten these results without becoming, and staying, physically active.

In my opinion any talk about the unhealthiness of a McDonalds hamburger starts with the white bread bun.

+1 I am about the same. When on the road I do occasionally stop for a convenient McD's burger. I get a double meat cheeseburger and tear off about half the bun. That gets rid of teh worst of it although I am sure there are some bad oils in there.

 

[F4mandolin]

And yet.....I work just fine on Carbo's and have no trouble losing weight eating as much bread etc as I want as long as I stay away from the extra junk food + beer (way too much of both). I don't eat because I am hungry....I eat because I like to eat.

 

[Mr. Paul]

And yet.....I work just fine on Carbo's and have no trouble losing weight eating as much bread etc as I want as long as I stay away from the extra junk food + beer (way too much of both). I don't eat because I am hungry....I eat because I like to eat.

A large part of my transformation has been my attitude towards eating. I used to like to eat and now regard it as a pain in the ass that must be done. Cutting out a lot of the stuff I truly liked has everything to do with the change in attitude I'm sure.

There is no one right answer to losing weight though physical activity is a key to any approach. The problem we have as a group is in sticking to a plan, whatever it may be.

 

[mpeirce]

+1 I am about the same. When on the road I do occasionally stop for a convenient McD's burger. I get a double meat cheeseburger and tear off about half the bun. That gets rid of teh worst of it although I am sure there are some bad oils in there.

Many places have bun-less options these days.

I'm partial to Three Guys and Wendy's bunless burgers. They come in a nice tray and are easy to eat with a knife and fork.

 

[Mr. Paul]

Many places have bun-less options these days.

I'm partial to Three Guys and Wendy's bunless burgers. They come in a nice tray and are easy to eat with a knife and fork.

The Carl's Jr low carb $6 burger kicks ass ... wrapped in lettuce instead of a bun. But add their smallest serving of fries and it's 50 carbs!

 

[SJ1_]

+2
I started a low carb diet by eliminating bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, pizza, cereal and all fried foods from my diet back in October when I was diagnosed with diabetes. I also reduced my beer intake and occasionally substituted it with a glass of wine at dinner.

This diet along with an increase in exercise regimen of daily 45 minutes to an hour walk/treadmill and two hours of tennis twice a week helped me lose 22 lbs and I'm now 5 lbs away from my ideal weight. My blood glucose level dropped to non diabetic level and I feel great and never hungry.

I did that 10 years ago. Had high fasting blood glucose and
really bad chol. and my triglycerides were over 500. Bought
a glucose meter and eliminated anything that made my blood
sugar go up. Lost 30 lbs and have been normal since.
The dr. back then wanted to start me on the drug program
but I decided to see what I could do first.
My new dr says "What ever you are doing, keep doing it"

 

[Chuckanut]

Low-Carb/High-Fat appear to be the unwanted step-child of the various ways of eating. I rarely hear the same level of disapproval when talking about vegetarianism, veganism or the low-fat approach. Yet, it seems to have a very high success rate among people who practice it properly.

 

[HFWR]

IIFYM Calculator

"If it fits your macros" implies that, once you meet the requirements for protein and fat, the rest can come from any source. Active people may need more carbs than less active, though it varies with the individual.

I calculated my TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) at around 2239 kcal; my weight is 174 lbs, which I'm happy with re: bodyfat, which I estimate at 16-20%, though it hasn't been measured.

Results are: Carbs = 210g, Protein = 174g, and Fat = 78, though, as IIFYM opines, once the protein and fat requirements are met, the rest could be filled however, and not necessarily with carbs. I've found it's difficult to eat 174g of protein, without a protein shake or two...

 

[Corporateburnout]

I did that 10 years ago. Had high fasting blood glucose and
really bad chol. and my triglycerides were over 500. Bought
a glucose meter and eliminated anything that made my blood
sugar go up. Lost 30 lbs and have been normal since.
The dr. back then wanted to start me on the drug program
but I decided to see what I could do first.
My new dr says "What ever you are doing, keep doing it"

Back in October I was put on a small dose of metformin but at my last follow up he decided to further lower the dosage. He plans to take me off the medication at my next visit if the glucose level remains the same.

He primarily attributed the big drop in glucose level to the diet and exercise.

 

[Mr. Paul]

I too started on Metformin but have been off it for about 5 years. Last A1C was 5.8.

 

[MasterBlaster]

What interests me is that since we were so much thinner and diabetes was hardly an epidemic in the 60's,
why not simply go back to the way we were eating at that time?

 

[Katsmeow]

When I ate lots of carbs I was always hungry and reaching for more snacks. Higher levels of fat and protein (with fairly low carbs) leaves me far less hungry. The key outcome is that I never have to consciously portion control. I eat as much as I feel like eating and stay at a very low, very stable weight. Consciously focusing on portion control would be an endless and hopeless task for me and, I gather from the pathetic results, for most people.

I don't really think so. I don't think most people do focus on portion control.

There is no doubt that if one severely limits carbs for a sustained period of time, that weight loss will almost surely result in one who needs to lose weight. There is also no doubt that if one severely limits, say, fat for a sustained period of time, that weight loss will almost surely result in one who needs to lose weight. Whenever anyone severely limits any macronutrient this is coupled with a limitation of total calories eaten.

I have eaten low carb in the past. Last December I also went gluten free for the month to see if I was sensitive to gluten (I'm not). For the first 2 weeks of the month I was also very low carb, basically eating almost all my carbs from veggies. No grains at all and no fruit. I found it hard to get up to 1000 calories a day. Even when I added in non-gluten grains and some fruit I found that I usually stayed under 1200 calories a day.

So, yes, restricting carbs will often result in consumption of less calories. I have no doubt the same would happen if I, say, decided I was going to eat 10% fat.

For me, though, I have found that I'm not particularly sensitive to carbs and not sensitive at all to gluten. I do avoid eating refined carbs and limit my added sugar. However, I'm fine with eating things like fruit and whole grains. I find that eat about 120 carbs (plus or minus 20 carbs most days), which is close to about 90-100 net carbs a day. I do watch my overall portions - I track and record my calories every day - and that works better for me than severely restricting carbs or fat. In practice, I end up with a low-moderate carb intake.

 

[AllDone]

I've seen people succeed with just about every diet out there and I've seen people fail with all of them too. Radical diet changes are often successful just because they are radical changes that break well ingrained bad habits. Most snacking has nothing to do with hunger, it's just habit and availability. Portion sizes are a habit. Meal times are a habit. I'm always amused when visiting the in-laws on the other coast. About three hours after east-coast dinner, my appetite informs me that it's time for (California) dinner!

The Paleo or "high fat" diet doesn't really lend itself well to mindless snacking. Mark Sisson admits that some people fail on the diet and notes that they are often people who eat a lot of olives, nuts, and cheese. You could argue that there is some mystery, gluten-like "toxin" in these foods causing weight gain, but I'd be more inclined to blame easy, mindless eating, myself. It's not nearly as easy to whip up a steak and sautéed vegetables for a mid-afternoon snack. If you look at his menus, it's clear from his books that Sisson is a pretty disciplined guy who eats modest portions of protein and plenty of vegetables which is a perfectly reasonable diet.

"Paleo" to vegan, the human body is pretty flexible. Meat has pretty good nutritional value for it's calorie count, but grain, not so much. However, omit either one from your diet and you'll still do fine. Include either one in reasonable amounts and you'll also do fine. OTOH, historically the US and UK have had bad, bad sugar habits for centuries. Sugar (honey, agave, maple syrup, etc.) is just calories and appetite enhancement without any nutritional value at all. Cutting it out of your diet can do nothing but help.

 

[HFWR]

Crash dieting is doomed to failure, because the body adapts to this radical reduction in energy input by going into starvation mode. Better to reduce calories by 10-20% max.

 

[Katsmeow]

Crash dieting is doomed to failure, because the body adapts to this radical reduction in energy input by going into starvation mode. Better to reduce calories by 10-20% max.

I'm not sure what you mean by "crash dieting" but many people severely misunderstand starvation mode. It is true that as you cut calories the body may somewhat decrease its metabolic rate so that you burn fewer calories than you would burn if you had not cut calories (this is called adaptive thermogenesis). Some people (not saying you are one of them) misunderstand this and think that "starvation mode" means that you can't lose weight at all and that you have to then eat more food in order to lose weight. That is not correct. If you have a calorie deficit you will lose weight. And, even if your metabolism slows a little bit due to calories being cut, you will still lose weight if you are eating fewer calories than you burn.

I like this article for talking about this issue in a balanced way and points out that what most people think of as "starvation mode" is a myth (it also acknowledge that adaptive thermogenesis is real):

Starvation Mode: Is It A Myth? Is It Real? Is Your Body In It Now?

 

[InParadise]

Many places have bun-less options these days.

I'm partial to Three Guys and Wendy's bunless burgers. They come in a nice tray and are easy to eat with a knife and fork.

What do you ask the cashier for? And do you mean 5 Guys?

I make a cheeseburger salad. Big bowl of mixed greens and veggies with a chopped up hot cheeseburger which warms up the salad just enough for me to still want one in the winter, without wilting the greens. Top it with a mix of guacamole and salsa for the dressing. Use beef, salmon or mahi burger, depending on how decadent I feel.