Calories

[Chuckanut]

CICO is like walking past a local restaurant that is packed with customers while the others on the block are nearly empty. You ask "Why is that one restaurant packed?" and a passerby answers " Because more people walked into it than have walked out of it." True, but it doesn't really tell you why so many people are walking into the restaurant. It does not explain the behavior of these people.

A more useful answer might be, "The owner is celebrating his 20th anniversary and has priced everything tonight using the prices he charged 20 years ago. And the beer is free." Now that is information that is helpful as it helps us understand the behavior that caused the restaurant to be packed with people while others are nearly empty.

That said, if CICO or vegetarianism, or low-carb or being a breatharian works for a person, then great! and I am happy for that person.

 

[AllDone]

CICO is like walking past a local restaurant that is packed with customers while the others on the block are nearly empty. You ask "Why is that one restaurant packed?" and a passerby answers " Because more people walked into it than have walked out of it." True, but it doesn't really tell you why so many people are walking into the restaurant. It does not explain the behavior of these people.

A more useful answer might be, "The owner is celebrating his 20th anniversary and has priced everything tonight using the prices he charged 20 years ago. And the beer is free." Now that is information that is helpful as it helps us understand the behavior that caused the restaurant to be packed with people while others are nearly empty.

That said, if CICO or vegetarianism, or low-carb or being a breatharian works for a person, then great! and I am happy for that person.

What you mean by "CICO" and what I mean are quite clearly two different things. CICO, unlike vegetarianism or low-carb, is not a specific diet. Reducing intake to a number of calories less than output works for everyone. There's no other way to lose weight. That doesn't mean that there aren't an infinite number of ways to make that reduction. You can certainly do it with a vegan diet as well as a HFLC diet, but if you don't produce the deficit, you won't lose weight no matter what the diet. Look at some of the low carb forums. People frequently ask why they can test positive for ketones and still not lose weight. While different dietary choices affect things like satiety, health markers, and compliance, no one has ever shown that anything but calorie deficit is the key to weight loss. Vegan, potato hack, Twinkie, paleo, ketogenic, Atkins, Weight Watchers, Zone, South Beach, Eat Right 4 Your Type, etc. all work when you produce a calorie deficit.

Anyway, on a completely unrelated matter, here is an actual government publication from 1980 with the dietary recommendations. Weirdly, they don't recommend candy, Snackwells, or fast food.

http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/1980thin.pdf

 

[HFWR]

On my one, and so far only, cruise, it seemed obvious that some folks came just for the unlimited food. Anecdotally, of course, but many of the chubbiest, least mobile cruisers seemed to be the worst "offenders"...

I just can't eat 2-3 plates of food. I did, however, drink my share.

 

[Chuckanut]

What you mean by "CICO" and what I mean are quite clearly two different things.

I wasn't really replying to your post, just adding some thoughts of my own to the discussion but....

+1 and Bingo!

The term CICO is often seen as a specific tactic to achieve weight control, when it is more like a strategy, IMHO.

 

[Options]

See this:

The Best Ways to Lose Weight After 50 – Next Avenue

“The biggest mistake people over 50 make is believing it’s inevitable to gain weight as we age,” says Levy. “Implementing healthful strategies can result in better overall health and weight control.”

Endless gimmicks and empty promises of rapid weight loss tactics abound, however, but nearly all result in only temporary weight loss. They’re even less effective for those over 50. “For both sexes, you are going to have to fight harder to lose those extra pounds,” says Quebbemann.

Here’s how:

You’ll need to up your exercise routine or start one if you’re not currently working out, says Levy. “Not only for overall health, but to shed those excess pounds by increasing metabolism and muscle mass,” she notes.

You also need to simply eat less, says Quebbemann, who adds most people experience less of an appetite as they age, but not always. “For those people that do not experience a decrease in appetite, it is even more important to maintain your activity level.”

 

[braumeister]

You also need to simply eat less, says Quebbemann, who adds most people experience less of an appetite as they age, but not always. “For those people that do not experience a decrease in appetite, it is even more important to maintain your activity level.”

I can't believe people are still trying to peddle this junk science.

Surely there is a pill we can take, right?!

 

[athena53]

I can't believe people are still trying to peddle this junk science.



Surely there is a pill we can take, right?!

Yeah, it's called Fen-phen.

Oh, wait, never mind. ;-)

 

[LOL!]

I have a sneaking suspicion (not backed by science) that different people "absorb" different percentages of the calories they consume.

I have to agree with this. The nutrients in food are going to be available for absorption in your digestive system differently at different times and depend on what else is going on with your biology.

I'll give a simple example that folks who have had colonoscopies may be able to relate to:

If you eat a big meal of 5 pizzas (not slices, but the whole pizzas) and then wash them down with a gallon of liquid oral laxative, then you will not make productive use of those pizza calories. However, calories out still happens.

 

[Amethyst]

I am a little worried about what effect the colonoscopy prep "cleansing" has on one's gut flora. It can't be good for them. Wouldn't it be awful if new, obesity-friendly flora decided to take up residence in one's newly clean digestive tract?

Then again, maybe it's like cleaning out the septic tank: the same "flora" eventually return to the familiar "habitat."

I have to agree with this. The nutrients in food are going to be available for absorption in your digestive system differently at different times and depend on what else is going on with your biology.

I'll give a simple example that folks who have had colonoscopies may be able to relate to:

 

[mpeirce]

I am a little worried about what effect the colonoscopy prep "cleansing" has on one's gut flora. It can't be good for them. Wouldn't it be awful if new, obesity-friendly flora decided to take up residence in one's newly clean digestive tract?

My (less than perfect) understanding is that your gut flora's permanent home is as a bacterial film in the mucus lining your small and large intestines. The colonoscopy cleansing doesn't really affect that, but rather flushes out the larger "stuff" (undigested food and bacteria all mixed together) that is normally transiting through.

 

[LOL!]

I do think your microbiome can change based on what you eat. Now the actual microorganism species may not change, but the actual ratios of the amounts of bacteria will change.

Your gene expression will also change based on your diet.

So if you have all the enzymes being produced to digest carbohydrates and then switch to a carbohydrate-free high-fat diet, then it will take a little while for new enzymes to be expressed at the levels needed to make use of all those fats you are eating. You may even lose weight for a little while, but then your body will adapt to the new diet (that is, your cells will express the molecules for the biochemical pathways to make use of the levels of the new types of substances they get) and you will gain that weight back.

One might say the same thing about exercise: It will take a little while for your body to adapt to exercise, so calorie use could change, too, when adapted.

BTW, chocolate is a laxative, so eating chocolate does not mean you will gain weight. Of course, if the chocolate is mixed with sugar, then that's another story.

 

[LOL!]

And more food for thought: It is well-known that many species have symbiotic relationships with microorganisms in their guts that are quite helpful. Two that come to mind are termites and cows.
Termite digestion:
http://www.nature.com/nrmicro/journal/v12/n3/full/nrmicro3182.html

Cow digestion:
How Cows Eat Grass

Humans do not chew their cud, but why shouldn't microorganisms in human guts be involved in digestion?

 

[RonBoyd]

My (less than perfect) understanding is that your gut flora's permanent home is as a bacterial film in the mucus lining your small and large intestines. The colonoscopy cleansing doesn't really affect that, but rather flushes out the larger "stuff" (undigested food and bacteria all mixed together) that is normally transiting through.

I read somewhere a week or so ago that the Appendix was discovered to actually have a function... as a place for the good bacteria to hide out. (or something along that line.) I cannot site the source, however (didn't work too hard on the search).

 

[dumpster56]

What is really amazing is the amount of food to maintain weight as we get older is so much less. Me 59 and 6 feet tall. Endurance junkie so I run and bike 100s of miles a month and can gain weight if I eat and drink too much. A slice of bread 100 calories a cookie 100 calories 1 oz of cheese 100 calories, a beer , 175 a glass of wine 150. 1800 calories a day is what I need to maintain 155 pounds on me. Crazy, but we have a society with so much food and fast food, no wonder everyone gains weight.

 

[athena53]

What is really amazing is the amount of food to maintain weight as we get older is so much less. Me 59 and 6 feet tall. Endurance junkie so I run and bike 100s of miles a month and can gain weight if I eat and drink too much. A slice of bread 100 calories a cookie 100 calories 1 oz of cheese 100 calories, a beer , 175 a glass of wine 150. 1800 calories a day is what I need to maintain 155 pounds on me. Crazy, but we have a society with so much food and fast food, no wonder everyone gains weight.

I'm also heavily into fitness but have to watch my weight. A 4-hour bike ride burns about 1,600 calories but I don't do those often and it would be really easy to scarf down that many calories of processed food if I didn't read labels.

 

[REattempt]

Crazy, but we have a society with so much food and fast food, no wonder everyone gains weight.

This is my constant recurring thought, even 2 years after losing 50 lbs. No wonder I gained so much.


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[REattempt]

I'm also heavily into fitness but have to watch my weight. A 4-hour bike ride burns about 1,600 calories but I don't do those often and it would be really easy to scarf down that many calories of processed food if I didn't read labels.

Wow. I wish I burned only 1,600 in 4 hours, I wouldn't have to eat so much!

I burn 750-850 an hour! This is very accurate because I use a heart monitor and a power meter. I ride 10-15 hours a week, so I eat lots of extra food!


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[jollystomper]

Ever since I got a Fitbit wristband I've gotten more attuned to what I can eat vs. how many I am eating. To maintain my weight (5' 10" 180) seems to range between 1800-2400 calories based on my activity level. Their food database function keeps me much more in tune with what I should eat vs. what I am eating, not just calories but how those calories are spread. I am not dieting so much as try to eat more balanced, and still allowing myself my sweet tooth splurges, just in moderation (e.g. taking 3 days to eat a bag of jelly beans instead of one hour ).

 

[Danmar]

Wow. I wish I burned only 1,600 in 4 hours, I wouldn't have to eat so much!

I burn 750-850 an hour! This is very accurate because I use a heart monitor and a power meter. I ride 10-15 hours a week, so I eat lots of extra food!


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Similar to me. At my last physical the doctor estimated I need about 4,000 cals to maintain. Big, tall guy with very active lifestyle. Most of my workouts result in a 800-1000 cal burn. Personal best high was 1,427. If biking it can go higher for longer rides. My motto in retirement is BURN CALORIES!!

 

[haha]

I get a calorie read when I use my Concept 2, and I use my Fitbit and and Excel sheet to estimate my calorie usage, but more as a correlate with MET-minutes to keep track of adequate exercise for metabolic health.

I have never had a clue how many calories I was eating, and I have maintained weight in a very narrow band around 150 for 60 years. I went down in South America because I could not get enough food, and I went up during college when doing intense sports that built muscle.

It just seems to be one of the few "issues" that I do not have to think about.

Ha

 

[Danmar]

I get a calorie read when I use my Concept 2, and I use my Fitbit and and Excel sheet to estimate my calorie usage, but more as a correlate with MET-minutes to keep track of adequate exercise for metabolic health.

I have never had a clue how many calories I was eating, and I have maintained weight in a very narrow band around 150 for 60 years. I went down in South America because I could not get enough food, and I went up during college when doing intense sports that built muscle.

It just seems to be one of the few "issues" that I do not have to think about.

Ha

I doubt most people (who aren't trying to lose weight) track calories consumed. As, mentioned, I track calories burned but even then have to watch my weight as I enjoy eating and drinking too much. What is your goal for met minutes?

 

[haha]

What is your goal for met minutes?

Once I saw the correspondence, I just leave the data in Kcal. In Kcal, I aim for 3500/7days.

Thanks for asking. I try not to fall below 3000, or go much above 4000 unless I do something special. This is well below many active people on the board I think.

Ha

 

[Danmar]

That's actually quite good. Over the past 3 years I have averaged about 3,800 cals per week but Im a lot bigger than you are. That would be for just my aerobic workouts. Don't generally track my training sessions.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

I stumbled upon this interesting podcast on my regular rounds. It touches on all the major points made throughout this thread.
If you like the podcast format, there are several interesting topics at the gastropod link.

The calorie seems to be an obvious measurement for food. But, in fact, it took hundreds of years and thousands of experiments to nail down what exactly the calorie means, both as a measurement of the food itself (that is, how much energy is contained in the form of a cheeseburger) and a measurement of consumption (how much energy we cheeseburger-eating humans burn as we go about our daily lives). With assistance from nutritionist Marion Nestle, author of Why Calories Count: From science to politics, we trace the calorie's earliest history, from an obsessive-compulsive Italian who invented a special chair with which to measure everything he ate, drank, and excreted over a thirty-year period, to the French chemist who put a guinea pig in a coffee urn to measure how much heat it gave off. Then we travel to the USDA laboratories in Beltsville, Maryland, to check out the way scientists measure calories today: by putting people in tricked-out walk-in coolers and freeze-drying their feces.

https://gastropod.com/the-end-of-the-calorie/

 

[sengsational]

Here's a link pointing to evidence that it's way more about what you eat than exercise, which disproves the 1958 "calories in, calories out" theory that is based on idea that a pound of human fat represents about 3,500 calories; therefore cutting 500 calories per day, through diet or physical activity, results in about a pound of weight loss per week.

The government and the food industry are doling out unscientific advice

Since 1980, the obesity prevalence has doubled worldwide with about 13 percent of the global population now registering as obese, according to the World Health Organization. In the United States, nearly 70 percent of the population is either overweight or obese.
A lack of exercise and too many calories have been depicted as equal causes of the crisis. But as researchers put it in an article in BMJ, "You cannot outrun a bad diet."

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/115188...ture:top&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter