Healthcare Ministries and Selfpay - Options

[LakeRat1]

Current Situation:
Me - Age - 54
DW - Age - 62
Florida Residents
Income from Taxable Income (IRA & SS) - 110k
Florida Blue - $1132 Per Month, with a $6800 Deductible Each

Health Care is just so expensive, we are in pretty good health, normally go to the doc once or twice a year for prescription maintenance drugs - Asthma inhaler, arthritis, gerd, and high cholestrol......

We are looking at joining in with the Christian Healthcare Ministries, after reading some of the posts on this forum: Pros and Cons your thoughts please ??

Pros
- Less Expensive
- No penalty from the IRS

Cons
- No guarantee of payment to the care providers
- Not and insurance program
-??

You thoughts are greatly appreciated

Are there others out there in our same situation, if so what are you doing ??

 

[Chris7]

This blogger wrote up a good post on one of such companies.
http://www.makingsenseofcents.com/2016/08/liberty-healthshare-review.html

I use Liberty Healthshare for two of my children and just had some Dr. visits so will have to get back to you on how the payment process worked.

I did a lot of research on these a few years ago and actually had a hard time finding too many bad reviews. I liked Liberty Healthshare because they weren't as dogmatic on somethings thus giving a higher number of people access and the more people in the pool, the more $ available for coverage. They also don't completely exclude pre-existing conditions, coverage of them is tapered in over 3-years.

I almost went with them a couple of years ago, but do still have some company benefits so stayed where I was it. This year may be different as our premiums are expected to rise.

cd :O)

 

[jim584672]

Current Situation:
Cons
- No guarantee of payment to the care providers

Wow, not a risk I would be willing to take. One illness and your FIRE plans are destroyed, back to the salt pit, no thanks.

 

[ivinsfan]

A friend of ours was talking about Christian Healthcare, so I have been doing a little reading up on it.

So it clearly states you must or should be an active Christian and church member, which must be how it qualifies under ACA, they probably have a religious exemption.

They also exclude many conditions mandated under ACA.. there is a long lists of things they do not cover.

My personal take after reading all the caveats and exclusions it that I would use it only if I couldn't afford traditional insurance.The part that makes me uneasy is they tell you to tell providers that you are self-pay and to trust and pray the discounts will be coming off of rack rates.MY DH had a rack rate bill for a heart valve repair of 220K that costs us about 3800 out of pocket.That episode alone put the fear of God in me about not having traditional major medical coverage. We are all potentially just one car accident or health emergency away from this scenario, I don't roll the dice on stuff like that.

 

[pb4uski]

If you don't have a lot to lose then this may be a wonderful alternative to traditional health insurance... much more affordable.... but if you have a healthy sized nestegg then to me the risk (albeit perhaps minimal, but who knows) would not be comfortable to me.

 

[ivinsfan]

Current Situation:
Me - Age - 54
DW - Age - 62
Florida Residents
Income from Taxable Income (IRA & SS) - 110k
Florida Blue - $1132 Per Month, with a $6800 Deductible Each

Health Care is just so expensive, we are in pretty good health, normally go to the doc once or twice a year for prescription maintenance drugs - Asthma inhaler, arthritis, gerd, and high cholestrol......

We are looking at joining in with the Christian Healthcare Ministries, after reading some of the posts on this forum: Pros and Cons your thoughts please ??

Pros
- Less Expensive
- No penalty from the IRS

Cons
- No guarantee of payment to the care providers
- Not and insurance program
-??

You thoughts are greatly appreciated

Are there others out there in our same situation, if so what are you doing ??

I see one of you has asthma, that and gerd and the arthritis and perhaps the high cholesterol will be considered pre-existing ..this has to qualify in the course of 3 years. 1/3 coverage every year until full coverage in year 3. In other words everything you currently have a problem with. Major asthma attack needing hospital time and therapy, your are on your own for the rest of the cost. Are you really comfortable with that?

 

[zinger1457]

Cons
- No guarantee of payment to the care providers

Maybe the 'con' should be stated that there is no guarantee of payment to the member. A couple of the ministries that I've researched require the member to submit the medical bill and if approved send the check to the member. It doesn't seem like they ever get involved directly with the care provider except to maybe verify a bill. The way I understood it is the member pays the medical provider then waits for the payment from the ministry to come in. Probably not a big issue for typical office visits but what about a major medical event that can quickly approach $100K?

One thing I never came across in my research are stories of members not receiving payment from a ministry for a valid medical claim. Has anyone come across anything different? Please share.

 

[Chris7]

Liberty runs more like traditional health care where all payments go them and they distribute the funds instead of relying on people to send in the checks. You can pay a little extra for a bill negotiating service.

The premiums aren't high so in theory you could add it and see how it goes and keep your traditional insurance for now. That would get the clock ticking as far as covering the pre-existing conditions. But as noted, complications in those areas can have some pretty high dr. visits. A night at the ER and a hospital stay for an Asthma attack could be quite pricey.

And like Zinger, I couldn't find evidence of people not getting their claims paid. I will have some real life experience though here in the next few weeks and months as some visits are necessary for our son.

cd :O)

 

[ivinsfan]

Liberty runs more like traditional health care where all payments go them and they distribute the funds instead of relying on people to send in the checks. You can pay a little extra for a bill negotiating service.

The premiums aren't high so in theory you could add it and see how it goes and keep your traditional insurance for now. That would get the clock ticking as far as covering the pre-existing conditions. But as noted, complications in those areas can have some pretty high dr. visits. A night at the ER and a hospital stay for an Asthma attack could be quite pricey.

And like Zinger, I couldn't find evidence of people not getting their claims paid. I will have some real life experience though here in the next few weeks and months as some visits are necessary for our son.

cd :O)

I don't think would as they very clearly say you tell your providers you are self pay when you get services. In the case you suggest you'd be asking them to pay your deductible and OOP expense. It cost a couple hundred a month if they payed like that everyone would join to lower their OOP.

 

[brewer12345]

I think you would have to be on crack to trust this unregulated, hope and pray, mumbo-jumbo. YMMV.

 

[haha]

I don't think would as they very clearly say you tell your providers you are self pay when you get services.

I would rather stand naked in the middle of Interstate 5 at the Denny exit than be self-pay in the rapacious American health system. However, ymmv

Ha

 

[Dash man]

I think you would have to be on crack to trust this unregulated, hope and pray, mumbo-jumbo. YMMV.

No need to insult someone's religious beliefs.


Enjoying life!

 

[brewer12345]

No need to insult someone's religious beliefs.


Enjoying life!

This has absolutely nothing to do with religious belief. This has to do with putting your financial future in the hands of an opaque, largely untested, unregulated excuse for a guarantor which has no capital and no reserves.

 

[Dash man]

This has absolutely nothing to do with religious belief. This has to do with putting your financial future in the hands of an opaque, largely untested, unregulated excuse for a guarantor which has no capital and no reserves.

"Hope and pray, Mumbo jumbo"
If you don't see that as insulting those who believe...I feel sorry for you.



Enjoying life!

 

[ivinsfan]

No need to insult someone's religious beliefs.


Enjoying life!

It's the insurance product that brought God into it ...the organiziers might be truly pious believers that want to help people or scam artists. You get both of these types in organized religion and that's a true statement.

 

[brewer12345]

"Hope and pray, Mumbo jumbo"
If you don't see that as insulting those who believe...I feel sorry for you.



Enjoying life!

Meh. If people are so easily offended they must have great difficulties going through life. I was talking about hope and pray that these shadowy figures reimburse your sizable outlays for medical costs.

 

[ivinsfan]

"Hope and pray, Mumbo jumbo"
If you don't see that as insulting those who believe...I feel sorry for you.



Enjoying life!

Can we stay on topic please, I have a real curiosity about this product. I will continue to pay for traditional insurance, but have more then a few friends that are getting desperate over the cost of insurance. Someone in church has started espousing these groups and I want to look out for my friends. I trust this boards as far as digging out bad products and companies.

Thanks!

 

[RetireAge50]

I think you would have to be on crack

I do not think you can join this plan if you are on crack.

I like the idea of this type of thing--kind of like a credit union but would mostly be worried about humans messing it up.

 

[RobbieB]

Not to mention the "judgements"

 

[travelover]

Independent of the religious affiliation, I think it is fair to ask if one can depend on this coverage to keep one from going bankrupt if one has a major medical issue. Most of us here have a lot to lose. We wring our hands over annuity issuers who are for the most part backstopped by state governments, yet these don't seem to have reserves that an insurance company would be required to have.

 

[ivinsfan]

Maybe the 'con' should be stated that there is no guarantee of payment to the member. A couple of the ministries that I've researched require the member to submit the medical bill and if approved send the check to the member. It doesn't seem like they ever get involved directly with the care provider except to maybe verify a bill. The way I understood it is the member pays the medical provider then waits for the payment from the ministry to come in. Probably not a big issue for typical office visits but what about a major medical event that can quickly approach $100K?

One thing I never came across in my research are stories of members not receiving payment from a ministry for a valid medical claim. Has anyone come across anything different? Please share.

They will negotiate directly with the provider to get a discounted rate on your bill. The can't guarantee you a discounted rate, but say most people do get them. If you don't then in theory would pay everything up to your policy limits but limit is about 125K, frighteningly easy to run a bill much higher then that number.

You are correct they don't pay the provider directly they pay you. Because at the end of the day you are the responsible payment party not them.

 

[photoguy]

I will continue to pay for traditional insurance, but have more then a few friends that are getting desperate over the cost of insurance.

With subsidy HC premium should be capped at no more than 10% of income. Plus there are generous cost sharing subsidies to limit max OOP.

Perhaps a better strategy might be to help with budget and income management around the relevant thresholds? And also double checking that services are billed correctly

Or are they falling into the hole between Medicaid and the bottom of the subsidy limit?



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[RobbieB]

This stuff is for people who are so broke they can't afford insurance. They'll still go broke one way or the other.

 

[ivinsfan]

Independent of the religious affiliation, I think it is fair to ask if one can depend on this coverage to keep one from going bankrupt if one has a major medical issue. Most of us here have a lot to lose. We wring our hands over annuity issuers who are for the most part backstopped by state governments, yet these don't seem to have reserves that an insurance company would be required to have.

In a word NO you can't count on not going broke, they have limits on all type of payments and IMO they aren't high enough.They don't claim to have reserves they work on cash flow.

 

[razztazz]

"Hope and pray, Mumbo jumbo"
If you don't see that as insulting those who believe...I feel sorry for you.

Enjoying life!

Take the religious aspect out of it. Could be organized by a bowling league. It's based on a "hope and pray" model. And did I read someone here is actually calling for "regulations"? Heaven forefend . Oh the humanity. A spoonful of sugar does indeed help the medicine go down