I may have made a mistake in provider selection for my Plan G

[Telly]

Well, I didn't expect this.
Last year, I conducted an investigation to determine who to go with for Plan G. The prime possibility was AARP/UHC, but I wanted to learn more, see what else was out there, etc., as I documented in this thread: http://www.early-retirement.org/for...r-selection-a-medicare-newbys-path-94740.html

Forward to this month... I get a letter from MoO (United World in TX) telling me that my premium will increase to $134 from present $116, a 15% increase!

So, I started to do a lot of digging. Found that MoO United World was raising Plan F & G rates 15% here in TX, and Plan N 6%. This was after NO increases for a few years (I joined late last year).

But I found something REALLY disturbing. MoO has ceased to write Medicare Supplement plans under the MoO United World name in TX around Sept. 1. Instead, they are now writing Medicare Supplement plans in TX under a new name, MoO Omaha Supplemental Insurance Company (OSIC). And I found rates for this new Plan G with OSIC in my area... significantly cheaper than what my new rate will be, and it is even cheaper than what I signed up for last year, with the same 12% HouseHold discount.

So methinks that MoO may have just pulled a "close one book, open another" insurance routine, where no new people will be added to the closed book, so prices will rise faster for those folks like me, as no new blood will be coming in. And the new folks will be dumb and happy buying into the new OSIC book, where the rates won't change for the first few years! I had heard a little of this kind of book game last year, I think I mentioned it in a post as a possible future landmine.
Maybe it was too much to expect, but I would have thought that the independent insurance agency I went with that recommended MoO UW to me, could have seen previous MoO book games, and that should have been factored into any recommendation from them.

I went with MoO UW rather than AARP/UHC, which I figured was the one to beat. By the way, I found AARP/UHC new rates for my area in TX, they are slightly cheaper than what I could have gotten last year. So is AARP/UHC NOT pulling a book game too, and their rates dropped a bit? Or what? If they aren't pulling a book game, then I probably should have gone with them instead. MoO's 15% increase one time would be one thing, but if I'm now in a growing-older book of theirs that is going to skyrocket premium-wise as years go on, maybe I should be thinking of trying to move to a different Plan G provider, while I can still pass underwriting!

But who do I trust? Am I going to trust what an independent agent tells me? I don't want to go through the trouble of changing providers with underwriting, and all the setup stuff, to be back in the same position in a couple years, when I may NOT be able to pass underwriting! I sure could use a magic genie about now...

I'm not an insurance industry person, but I could use some unbiased experience of one.

 

[REWahoo]

Telly, that's disappointing to hear. As a MoO UW Plan N policy holder who saw that 6% increase a couple of months ago, I was oblivious to the 15% increases on other plans and to the fact MoO had "closed the book" on UW policies. Another example of how we are at the mercy of these insurance companies and have little ability to manage our premium costs.

 

[pb4uski]

I would call the Texas insurance regulator and see what they have to say... likely a wild goose chase, but you never know.... they might not be happy about it either.

 

[MichaelB]

Wow, that’s unfortunate, and underhanded. I’d call an agent like Boomer Benefots to see if I could get into a policy with another insurer.

 

[mf15]

Geisinger also just cancelled my medigap plan F-HD and all supplement plans for 2020.
Yet they are keeping their MA plans.
I wonder if they are also playing this game. I am beyond PO'ed.
Oldmike

 

[Midpack]

Hmmmm. I just started a MoO/United World Plan G Supplement in May (my prem is $124.60/mo), on the advice of Boomer Benefits. So I will be following this thread with interest.

 

[wmc1000]

When DW and I started our original plan G in 2018 Boomer Benefits looked at all the providers and suggested 3 of them to us based on their PRIOR YEARS track record of annual increases. I do not fault them if the providers then take a larger than average increase in the future as they don't have a crystal ball any more than I do.


As posted previously in another thread, the Plan G provider we selected, Aetna, also increased Plan G rates by more than 15% for our renewal. We just finished going through underwriting using Boomer Benefits to apply for a different Plan G provider. Happily for us it went smoothly even though DW is considered a diabetic, (takes metformin), and our new rates will be almost the same as our current pre-increase premiums at one year older.


So, even if the new provider takes a large increase 12 months from now at least we have "postponed" it for another 12 months.

 

[MBSC]

MOO started the "close one book and open another" game and are masters at it. They don't do it in every market so you may receive replies saying their MOO premiums haven't changed much.

Almost every major insurer except UHC and BCBS/Anthem now does it to some extent. The little guys (Thrivent Lutheran, United American, etc.) don't do this.

On a forum for insurance agents, there was recently a thread about Medigap agent parents paying $300-$500 each for their supplement because they're not healthy enough to change. They can either keep paying the premium, switch to an Advantage plan, or move to a state with special Medigap rules like CA, CT, MA, MO, NY, OR, and WA.

You are also the subject of bad timing. Unhealthy people aging in to Medicare generally choose the most comprehensive plan available, which will be 'G' starting in 2020. Eventually, carriers will need to increase 'G' premiums to reflect the less healthy enrollment pool.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

From the outside (still on ACA Bronze HSA) looking in, $134 doesn't look bad. And assuming I get OK Part D coverage, my costs will drop like a rock.

But I understand that 15% year after year is quite annoying. If my Almond milk went from $2.99 to $3.50, I would be declaring WW3.

Just trying to present something positive out of the situation.

 

[audreyh1]

From the outside (still on ACA Bronze HSA) looking in, $134 doesn't look bad. And assuming I get OK Part D coverage, my costs will drop like a rock.

But I understand that 15% year after year is quite annoying. If my Almond milk went from $2.99 to $3.50, I would be declaring WW3.

Just trying to present something positive out of the situation.

Don't forget - that $134 is just for the supplement. You also have to pay for Medicare Part B and Medicare Part D.

Nevertheless in our case it will probably be less than what we were paying for ACA even with IRMAA.

 

[audreyh1]

Forward to this month... I get a letter from MoO (United World in TX) telling me that my premium will increase to $134 from present $116, a 15% increase!

So, I started to do a lot of digging. Found that MoO United World was raising Plan F & G rates 15% here in TX, and Plan N 6%. This was after NO increases for a few years (I joined late last year).

But I found something REALLY disturbing. MoO has ceased to write Medicare Supplement plans under the MoO United World name in TX around Sept. 1. Instead, they are now writing Medicare Supplement plans in TX under a new name, MoO Omaha Supplemental Insurance Company (OSIC). And I found rates for this new Plan G with OSIC in my area... significantly cheaper than what my new rate will be, and it is even cheaper than what I signed up for last year, with the same 12% HouseHold discount.

So methinks that MoO may have just pulled a "close one book, open another" insurance routine, where no new people will be added to the closed book, so prices will rise faster for those folks like me, as no new blood will be coming in. And the new folks will be dumb and happy buying into the new OSIC book, where the rates won't change for the first few years! I had heard a little of this kind of book game last year, I think I mentioned it in a post as a possible future landmine.

Wow - that really stinks! I wonder what BoomerBenefits says about them now. That kind of stunt shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Katsmeow]

Telly - I remember your thread. I am in the same geographic area to you as I recall (DFW area) and looked carefully at your thread. I ended up going UHC/AARP in part because DH was already on it and there is a household discount. DH has had UHC/AARP for several years and the yearly increases (he is on Plan F - I am on G) have been reasonable.

Anyway, it might be worthwhile seeing if you could qualify and switch to the UHC/AARP plan. It might or might not be that difficult to do.

 

[Telly]

Thanks to all that commented, and a big thanks to MBSC for the insight and experience that I don't think I can find anywhere else! I am NOT an insurance person!

In retrospect - For all the investigation work I did last year, I still feel toasted by what turned out I didn't know. Looking back at the situation now, I should have spent an extra $10 to get the next-higher level access on CSGActuarial. Then I could have seen rate increase histories on each insurance companies offerings. I'd like to think that if I saw a few contiguous years of 0% rate increases on MoO UW, that I would have thought that something was fishy. Like, how could there be NO medical cost inflation, and for more than a year?

Present status - This week I learned how/when one can attempt to change Medigap providers/plans, as I had no clue on that. I'm in waiting mode now, hope to have some news soon, and will share it.

 

[Telly]

Update - I decided to do a double change out. First, to switch to an ins. co. that doesn't play the book game. MBSC's helpful info reinforced an idea I had, that there probably is a subset of AARP members with AARP/UHC Medigap plans, that are advocate/outspoken type of people. That if the ins. plan tried to screw them over, they'd shout loudly. And that AARP wouldn't want to be seen being party to something like that, and with they're weight, could put the kibosh on it. It's certainly possible that there are smaller ins. cos. that may have been fine, but I'm on a short fuse, wanted to get it done before anniversary date. And I'm doubting that they would have the type of user cohesiveness that AARP has.

To do this change, I have to go through medical underwriting. And doing that, I might as well switch from Plan G to Plan N for the reason that MBSC mentioned, which I also posted about months ago, after seeing a Youtube video about it by the Senior Savings Network guy in SC.

I passed underwriting with no additional questions or info needed from me, beyond the application form questions on health, and my attestation that my answers given are true to the best of my knowledge, and that I understand the ramifications of untrue statements. I figure the underwriters check the MIB (Medical Information Bureau).

So instead of a 15% increase to $134/mo. with MoO UW, and being in a closed book with its negative ramifications into the future, I now have a $120/mo. (including $2/mo. EFT discount) AARP/UHC Plan N.
An AARP/UHC Plan G with the $2/mo. EFT discount in my area is $130. So as was pointed out to me, there isn't a big drop from G to N, as there would be with many other ins. cos. But my goal was not lowest price today, but rather lower rate increases over time by not being "booked"!

Going off on a tangent for a moment, back in the early 2000's, I went on a private insurance plan. Everything was OK for a year. Then a price increase, then one in 9 months, then again in 6 months, etc. The cost was spiraling up fast. I coined a phrase "The dead duck pool". As rates increased faster and faster, the ducks that were able took off for another pool, and only the sickest ducks that couldn't would be left, to pay whatever was demanded of them. They had no choice.

This duck was able to fly, and did so again last week. But who knows what next week/next year brings in health as we age? Depending on being able to fly every year or whatever period does not sound like a sustainable plan!

One of our forum members posted months ago that he knew some truly elderly folks, that were paying big $$ for Medigap plans, and many of us wondered how that could be, as we were not, and didn't think we would be. I understand now. The sirens of low initial price today, and the "pricing projections" into the future should not entice us into the shallow water (uh-oh, I feel another analogy coming on, I better wrap it up!).

 

[saydiver]

I won't link to a different forum, but if you do a Google search on 'senior insurance forum' you will find out which forum MBSC has likely been reading. I too read this forum and started reading it before signing up for Medicare to help me figure out which insurance company to choose. By reading current threads and also by doing searches for older threads about a particular insurance company or topic, you will find out a lot of very useful info about these companies, including MoO being a master at closing books of business as MBSC mentioned. There's a lot of good info on UHC too.

 

[zaqxsw]

Update - I decided to do a double change out./QUOTE]

Thanks Telly, I also had read your previous post earlier this year, and after much study, went with a Mutual of Omaha Plan G mid-year. They have been great on billing and paying. But, I also found more and more info about their age rate increases and the "closing the books" game. BoomerBenefits is aware of this, obviously being from TX, but won't comment except to recite MoO's A.M. rating...

Luckily, I am still in my guaranteed issue period by just a week and switched companies to AARP UHC today. Safety with the herd!

BoomerBenefits also said that they are seeing large increases across a lot of companies selling Medigap plans. Up to 40%. They are also seeing a married couple, close in age, in the same area, with the same plan, with the same company, getting significantly different rate increases. They have no explanation for it, and it seems, they can't get any answers. Are companies looking at individual claims I believe that isn't allowed with Medigap.

Of course, it is clear that the government wants to move everyone over to Medicare Advantage plans to shift the risk and manage costs by denying services. This is the "new, improved Medicare" being spoken highly about in retirement community speeches!

I think insurance companies are going to support that direction by making Medigap too high priced in the years ahead... not a new thought. So will the government enforce Medigap rules if a company breaks them? I doubt it. They will act in the opposite direction, weakening traditional Medicare and Medigap. Just an opinion.

 

[Bamaman]

My wife and I are sticking with a slightly more expensive conventional Medicare Supplement plan F. The dominant hospital chain in our area does not participate in Medicare Advantage plans, and neither do the 1700 physicians and nurse practitioners in the hundreds of practices the hospital now owns. When they made the decision, thousands of patients in the region had to change doctors and change hospitals--often to different doctors and hospitals 50-75 miles away.

I understand the Advantage plans operate somewhat like a HMO, and they're paid a flat payment per month per patient. Our experience with HMO's was okay when our young daughter needed to be checked for the sniffles. But when she mysteriously came down with tuberculosis at age 5, we were not satisfied. My wife also suffered with female problems that our HMO would not deal with for 5 years, and a private doctor's 1 hour procedure solved the problem when we switched to regular healthcare insurance.

My wife has had 4 surgeries in the last 14 months, and we've out $300 for each hospital visit and little more. We are just not willing to make the change to other plans.

 

[REWahoo]

I won't link to a different forum, but if you do a Google search on 'senior insurance forum' you will find out which forum MBSC has likely been reading. I too read this forum and started reading it before signing up for Medicare to help me figure out which insurance company to choose.

Mind sharing which company you chose, and why? I'm trying to decide whether to stay with MoO or try to move to another carrier.

 

[saydiver]

Mind sharing which company you chose, and why? I'm trying to decide whether to stay with MoO or try to move to another carrier.

For me I chose a HD-F plan with United American(UA) with an amount set up in an annuity for paying my claims automatically. So far it's worked out great and I haven't received a bill from any dr who accepted Medicare assignment.

Why? Supplemental rates in south FL are some of the highest in the country. My 2019 rate in FL for a HD-F with UA is $46/month. I'm willing to play the odds that most years I will come out ahead by having a HD-F plan, because the average person on Medicare doesn't hit $11,500 in claims year in and year out or whatever amount it will be in the future. Also rates continue to climb especially when one is in their 80s and I know at some point in the future I'll reach the break-even age where the HD-F annual rate + deductible will actually be cheaper than any other plan.

 

[zaqxsw]

Just to clarify Guarantee Issue Medigap plans, while Plans G and D become GI plans in 2020, they still are not GI available plans to anyone who was Medicare eligible before 2020. Only Plans A, B, C, F, K or L are GI to those folks.

Am I correct?

With only Plan M and N remaining unavailable for GI, I doubt if they will be excluded for long. Why exclude any plan, especially with only two exceptions now?

 

[MBSC]

Just to clarify Guarantee Issue Medigap plans, while Plans G and D become GI plans in 2020, they still are not GI available plans to anyone who was Medicare eligible before 2020. Only Plans A, B, C, F, K or L are GI to those folks.

Am I correct?

Correct.

While a person already Medicare eligible will continue to have a GI right to buy F/F-HD, there is no requirement for insurers to offer the plans. BCBSNC will not enroll anyone into F/F-HD after the end of the year. It's not worth the administrative cost to keep the plans open for a few potential GI enrollments. Those already enrolled can keep the plans. I believe other companies will follow suite, maybe not in 2020 but in the years that follow.

 

[ImaCheesehead]

Telly, I am curious as to what your experience has been with AARP UHC plan since your switchover 2 years ago.

Boomer Benefits has recommended MOO to DH in FL and I came across your thread discussing MOO closing books and it does concern me. I may go with UHC for that reason as well.

 

[Dash man]

Telly, I am curious as to what your experience has been with AARP UHC plan since your switchover 2 years ago.



Boomer Benefits has recommended MOO to DH in FL and I came across your thread discussing MOO closing books and it does concern me. I may go with UHC for that reason as well.

We have the AARP UHC Plan N and are very happy with it. We had Plan G last year, but decided to switch since PA law prohibits Medicare excess charges.

 

[Ian S]

Telly, I am curious as to what your experience has been with AARP UHC plan since your switchover 2 years ago.

Boomer Benefits has recommended MOO to DH in FL and I came across your thread discussing MOO closing books and it does concern me. I may go with UHC for that reason as well.

I'm not Telly but I've had an AARP UHC plan since I started Medicare over 5 years ago. Initially, they didn't offer a G plan so I had an F plan. When they started to offer a G plan, I switched to that. There has never been a hiccup in my benefits. I look at the relationships involved: insurer, insured, and AARP and it seems to me that it's in both UHC's and AARP's interests to maintain a good plan without the "book closing" and other games that other insurers may play. So they get a huge group of insured which is to their financial benefit but that can cut both ways if that large insured group gets ticked off with service and/or coverage issues and other games.

 

[Telly]

Telly, I am curious as to what your experience has been with AARP UHC plan since your switchover 2 years ago.

Boomer Benefits has recommended MOO to DH in FL and I came across your thread discussing MOO closing books and it does concern me. I may go with UHC for that reason as well.

AARP/UHC has been fine, no complaints. I'm glad I made the switch.

About insurance agents/brokers... If one went to an ACME Insurance company agent (I think Wiley Coyote did ), one would not be surprised if the agent says ACME Insurance is the greatest, and one should go with them. That's a given. But an independent agency, a broker, in my opinion, should do what is best for the customer, not colored by which insurance company pays them the best incentive to sign up another customer.

Now let's add in some obfuscation: Let's say that the broker says ACME Insurance is a very stable company, that they have the lowest rates (without getting into companies with lower AM Best financial stability ratings) for the prospective customer, and that ACME has not had a rate increase in the last 3 years. That sounds great! Taken by what is said, that can all be true and honest. But what is NOT being said? That the broker is fully aware of the book game, and it's ramifications on the customer longer-term? That ACME has a nice long-running incentive plan to agents to sign people up?