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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 11:48 AM   #21
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Re: legal scam

We already have healthcare rationing. Those without green "tickets" with lots of zeros on them lose out under our present system.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 11:54 AM   #22
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
We already have healthcare rationing. Those without green "tickets" with lots of zeros on them lose out under our present system.
As I stated before, I think equality for all will lead to rationing for all. I can't support a system that hurts more people than it helps. I like the idea of basic care for all being available but not forced on everyone, with the ability to buy up or buy down based on need, but those who are farther to the left will argue that's not fair because it leads to a two-tiered system.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 11:56 AM   #23
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Re: legal scam

Just watch US companies dump retiree healthcare benefits next year.

Hanesbrands recently notified all of their retirees that the company would not pay for any portion of their health insurance premiums after 12/1/2007; retirees will still be able to purchase group health insurance at the group rate - however that will be significantly greater than their current cost to the retiree which is zero.

IMHO, US corporate healthcare benefits for retirees is a quickly expiring breed.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:04 PM   #24
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
As I stated before, I think equality for all will lead to rationing for all. I can't support a system that hurts more people than it helps. I like the idea of basic care for all being available but not forced on everyone, with the ability to buy up or buy down based on need, but those who are farther to the left will argue that's not fair because it leads to a two-tiered system.
Yeah, yeah, you aren't thinking about your livelihood at all, right?

You misconstrue the intent of my statements. Lack of universal basic care isn't a problem because it "isn't fair;" its a problem because it iis a stupid and wasteful way to run our healthcare system. Mammoth spending on "executive diagnostic services," hugely expensive treatments that benefit few people, and absurdly high drug prices while at the same time we have an uninsured (read: receives spotty care at best) population approaching 50MM is nothing short of foolish. Its high time we admit that the free market has (gasp! Milton Friedman rolling in his grave) resulted in a poor outcome.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:13 PM   #25
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by region2
Just watch US companies dump retiree healthcare benefits next year.

Hanesbrands recently notified all of their retirees that the company would not pay for any portion of their health insurance premiums after 12/1/2007; retirees will still be able to purchase group health insurance at the group rate - however that will be significantly greater than their current cost to the retiree which is zero.

IMHO, US corporate healthcare benefits for retirees is a quickly expiring breed.
I know, I see that coming down the pipeline too. It's just becoming too expensive for corporations to offer retiree benefits. We've got to find a way to bring down costs. I think HSAs are a good start, but we need more. Too much regulation in the prescription drug industry keeps drug costs high. Not enough doctors for reasons stated above. We also need to increase the number of insureds, hopefully, by using some of the ideas I mentioned earlier.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:14 PM   #26
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Re: legal scam

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Originally Posted by OldMcDonald
Only someone with a limited world view, and and even further limited imagination would be willing to accept the shody system we have now and declare it the best we can do.
This is a good start, but not quite a complete list. Let's not forget those who due to their business circumstances profit from the current scheme.

Ha
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:16 PM   #27
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
Too much regulation in the prescription drug industry keeps drug costs high.

Haaaaaaaahahahahahaahahahaahahaa!!! Now I KNOW for sure that you are a shill.

Do you also tell orphans that it is their fault for not having parents?
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:32 PM   #28
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
Medical schools keep a tight rope on the quanities of Doctors they let out in the system each year in order to keep salaries up.
What are your sources for the information you are stating as fact?! It is not a foregone conclusion that there is a physician shortage. By some accounts, the number has been rising disproportionately.

(There is some evidence that a shortage may be coming, however, as the hassles of practice and shrinking incomes make it a less appealing profession for the relatively marketable kids who now choose medicine. )

We have about 300 physicians per 100K population (look here). You'll see that very few countries have more than that. Maldistribution, maybe. Shortage? What shortage?

Public medical school class size is determined by state legislatures and relates to budget considerations rather than a preconceived plan to keep numbers down. Private medical school size is a proprietary decision and I have never seen, heard or heard of any collustion to adjust this based on supply and demand in 35 years of practice over 3 separate universities. What is your evidence for the plot to keep supply down?

Such irresposible statements don't enhance the credibility or your "arguments."

I think I'll let this be for a while. The discussion has run its course with me.
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As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:45 PM   #29
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
What are your sources for the information you are stating as fact?!
He is obviously talking out of his ass. Time for him to get an adjustment done to his tinfoil hat.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:50 PM   #30
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Re: legal scam

I suspect this has more to do with expensive drugs than too much regulation:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/...a/16297905.htm

$180 million in compensation for a CEO of pfizer who oversaw a 50% drop in stock price during his tenure....

Yea...its probably too much regulation driving up the cost of drugs....

PFIZER'S MCKINNELL TO GET $180 MILLION PACKAGE: Pfizer Inc.'s former chief executive, Henry McKinnell, who was forced into an early retirement in part because of investor anger about his rich retirement benefits, will get every penny of it and more, a new regulatory filing shows.

McKinnell's package, which the company disclosed in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission Thursday, totals more than $180 million. It includes an estimated $82.3 million in pension benefits, $77.9 million in deferred compensation, and cash and stock totaling more than $20.7 million.

The total value could grow to almost $200 million if McKinnell gets an $18.3 million stock award, but that is contingent on the future performance of the stock of the world's largest drugmaker.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 12:59 PM   #31
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Yeah, yeah, you aren't thinking about your livelihood at all, right?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 01:03 PM   #32
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
What are your sources for the information you are stating as fact?! It is not a foregone conclusion that there is a physician shortage. By some accounts, the number has been rising disproportionately.

(There is some evidence that a shortage may be coming, however, as the hassles of practice and shrinking incomes make it a less appealing profession for the relatively marketable kids who now choose medicine. )
I agree with the latter point.

Here is one article regarding Dr. shortages:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...shortage_x.htm
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 01:03 PM   #33
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidslovedogs
I agree with the latter point.

Here is one article regarding Dr. shortages:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...shortage_x.htm
Ah, yes, USAToday. Better source than any medical journal...
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 01:22 PM   #34
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Yeah, yeah, you aren't thinking about your livelihood at all, right?

You misconstrue the intent of my statements. Lack of universal basic care isn't a problem because it "isn't fair;" its a problem because it iis a stupid and wasteful way to run our healthcare system. Mammoth spending on "executive diagnostic services," hugely expensive treatments that benefit few people, and absurdly high drug prices while at the same time we have an uninsured (read: receives spotty care at best) population approaching 50MM is nothing short of foolish. Its high time we admit that the free market has (gasp! Milton Friedman rolling in his grave) resulted in a poor outcome.
What Brewer said.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 01:49 PM   #35
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Re: legal scam

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Originally Posted by donheff
What Brewer said.
It won't be too long before we realize that the free market has more than a few problems with the real world.

Ha
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 02:05 PM   #36
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Re: legal scam

Here's an interesting article regarding the effects of medicaid spending on prescription drug costs:

http://www.econ.umd.edu/~duggan/mcd-...g-revision.pdf
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 02:39 PM   #37
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Re: legal scam

MKLD -- If you're really interested in helping people wth their health insurance problems, stop trying to bait arguments about the theoretical aspects. Really, really, really -- unless you're going to run for President, nobody cares what your (or my) opinions are concerning how things should work. By now it should be quite clear to you that your theories are decidedly a minority view -- many informed Americans, including doctors and patients, hate the present system. However, it seems to me that people care about the factual basis of getting healthcare insurance, which you know a lot about. When you share this information, you're helping us all. BUt when you bait arguments, you're fouling the drinking water.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 02:48 PM   #38
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2006
By now it should be quite clear to you that your theories are decidedly a minority view
As with any conservative view on this site.
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 02:55 PM   #39
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Re: legal scam

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Originally Posted by lets-retire
As with and conservative view on this site.
Sniff, sniff, sniff . . . do I smell more bait?
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Re: legal scam
Old 12-22-2006, 03:11 PM   #40
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Re: legal scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2006
MKLD -- If you're really interested in helping people wth their health insurance problems, stop trying to bait arguments about the theoretical aspects. Really, really, really -- unless you're going to run for President, nobody cares what your (or my) opinions are concerning how things should work. By now it should be quite clear to you that your theories are decidedly a minority view -- many informed Americans, including doctors and patients, hate the present system. However, it seems to me that people care about the factual basis of getting healthcare insurance, which you know a lot about. When you share this information, you're helping us all. BUt when you bait arguments, you're fouling the drinking water.
Who's baiting?...
I was discussing and defending my views, these are "bait"

Second post on a thread that I didn't start...."Some have implied that this is your fault because you failed to make the "choices" you should have regarding insurance over the years."

"IMHO, you are seriously out of touch with the plight of 10s of millions of Americans "

"Yeah, yeah, you aren't thinking about your livelihood at all, right?"

"Haaaaaaaahahahahahaahahahaahahaa!!! Now I KNOW for sure that you are a shill."

"What are your sources for the information you are stating as fact?!"

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." --

"Ah, yes, USAToday. Better source than any medical journal..." (as if a medical journal would certainly have no career bias...)

Jeff, you are right, these conversations just go in circles....sorry....people just know how to hit my hot buttons....I'll try to resist....
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