Obama offers universal health care plan

[Trek]

"Under Obama's proposal, everyone would be able to obtain health insurance, and the Illinois senator would create a National Health Insurance Exchange to monitor insurance companies in offering the coverage. In essence, Obama's plan retains the private insurance system but injects additional money into the system to pay for the expanded coverage. Those who can't afford coverage would get a subsidy on a sliding scale depending on their income, and virtually all businesses would have to share in the cost of coverage for their workers. The plan that would be offered would be similar to the one covering members of Congress.

His package would prohibit insurance companies from refusing coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

"My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is that the amount of money you will spend on premiums will be less," Obama said. "If you are one of 45 million Americans who don't have health insurance, you will after this plan becomes law."

Obama offers universal health care plan - Yahoo! News

 

[mykidslovedogs]

His package would prohibit insurance companies from refusing coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

"My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is that the amount of money you will spend on premiums will be less," Obama said.

Sounds like the Utopian plan we have all been waiting for! He's got MY vote! My current individual catastrophic plan costs me about $300.00/mo for my family...I wonder how much less it will be once he implements his policy? I assume my taxes won't go up, either? Amazing! I'd love to see the details.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

My current individual catastrophic plan costs me about $300.00/mo for my family...I wonder how much less it will be once he implements his policy? I assume my taxes won't go up, either?

Well, at least your priorities are quite clear .

For some, it's about more than the money.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

Rich -

You know where my priorities are. I want everyone to have coverage just as much as you, but Obama is promising the world here...a good way to get lots of votes, but where is the money going to come from? How will costs be contained over time? Who will have to make sacrifices in the LONG RUN?

I don't believe him....that the only difference is going to be that my premiums will be less....there's got to be more to it than that. I'll be more open minded once I see the detailed proposal. Anybody can SAY they're going to cover all Americans, but at whose expense?

It sounds like a great proposal -- when the details come out, I'll think it over.

 

[unclemick]

Caught Warren Buffett on Charlie Rose(?a rerun?) last night - he thought either Obama or Hilary would do a good job for the Country if elected.

He sort of implied - he's had it pretty good the last few years and time to pony up a few extra bucks might not hurt.

Sooo - maybe I shouldn't worry/whine about the $138 per month/10k deductible(age 64) I got going in Missouri? It will go up!

Besides Obama passes my two fundamental criteria - he's breathing and a Democrat.

heh heh heh - my lefthanded Bear Bryant quirk - keep the passport up to date and the medical e-mail addresses in Thailand and India et al - world is flat - keep em honest price competition and all that rot. The silver bullet may prove elusive - but hopefully progress will be made.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

Let's just say Obama is elected, and he may very well be..he's attractive, smart and articulate, and he is good at promising the world. If his universal plan is implemented, what might the unintended consequences be?

I am an uper middle class American, who has my own busines and employs several people. If universal care is implemented, and let's just say my tax rates go up 10 to 20 grand per year (an estimate which I do not think is unreasonable), what might the unintended consequences be?:

1.) I might have to sell my home and downsize to something smaller (how many other Americans will be faced with similar choices, and what kind of economic impact will that have on the entire US economy?)

2.) I might have to fire one or two employees (who, by the way, I currently provide health benefits to). How many other small employers will have to do the same, and what kind of impact will that have on entire US economy?

3.) What about small employers who couldn't afford to offer benefits, but will now be forced to? How many of them will remain in business. How many people will lose their jobs? What kind of impact will that have on our economy as a whole?

These are all things that I think need to seriously be considered before any kind of universal plan is implemented. Politicians are very good at promising the world, and people stupidly elect them, without really understanding the ultimate consequences or without even really digging in and trying to understand the longterm impact to everyone.

4.) My mother or father might need an organ transplant or hip surgery in 10 or 20 years. Will they be able to get it, or will they be placed on a waiting list because costs have run umuck by then. These are the things I want people to think about.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Sounds like the Utopian plan we have all been waiting for! He's got MY vote! My current individual catastrophic plan costs me about $300.00/mo for my family...I wonder how much less it will be once he implements his policy? I assume my taxes won't go up, either? Amazing! I'd love to see the details.

I think I get it. "I've got mine...those that dont can eat cake..." ?

 

[mykidslovedogs]

I think I get it. "I've got mine...those that dont can eat cake..." ?

See my comments above.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Your assumptions in your comments above have no realistic basis.

Its worst case fearmongering.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

Your assumptions in your comments above have no realistic basis.

Its worst case fearmongering.

How can you say that? Someone will have to foot the bill. It will be upper middle class and wealthiest Americans. We don't know what the actual impact will be, but there are plenty of case studes (ie...Canadian Healthcare system is one), that give a picture of what some of the possible outcomes might be.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

So everyone in canada had to sell their houses, fire their employees and go out of business?

 

[Trek]

4.) My mother or father might need an organ transplant or hip surgery in 10 or 20 years. Will they be able to get it, or will they be placed on a waiting list because costs have run umuck by then. These are the things I want people to think about.

Wow, does your insurance help cover the cost of illegally harvesting organs from somewhere if you need one? Because in Florida if you need an organ they DO place you on a waiting list to receive one.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

So everyone in canada had to sell their houses, fire their employees and go out of business?

I DID NOT say that. All I am saying is that we need to seriously consider economic impact. We know in Canada, there are extremely long wait times for certain services (my concern as mentioned in number 4 above).

We don't know what the economic impact will be to the middle class yet. Again, if I had to pay 10 or 20 grand more in taxes (and that is NOT an unreasonable assumption), I can guarantee you that I would have to make changes. If I would have to, I am sure there would be others who would have to, too. What kind of economic impact will that have on our economy?

What's unrealistic is for Obama to promise that the ONLY change will be that premiums will go down. Yet...he states more money will be put here and more money will be put there....who's going to pay for that? It has to come from somewhere.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

Wow, does your insurance help cover the cost of illegally harvesting organs from somewhere if you need one? Because in Florida if you need an organ they DO place you on a waiting list to receive one.

You know what I mean....I'm talking about excessive wait times....beyond what we have now....particularly for things like hip, knee and eye surgeries...

 

[ziggy29]

That thundering sound you hear is the footsteps of workers in the 50-to-64 age groups stampeding for the exits of Megacorp. Now that they no longer have to work to get health insurance, they can RE and become net tax consumers instead of tax payers.

Anyone who's only working for the health insurance ought to be cheering for this one, as it would be quite a giveaway to them at the expense of those who continue to work, most likely.

 

[Brat]

Ah, but you already are footing the bill in so many ways. When health care providers aren't reimbursed the expense is added to their cost of doing business. Insured and paying patients pay more!

Health care for the indigent is much cheaper in clinics than emergency rooms.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

That thundering sound you hear is the footsteps of workers in the 50-to-64 age groups stampeding for the exits of Megacorp. Now that they no longer have to work to get health insurance, they can RE and become net tax consumers instead of tax payers.

Anyone who's only working for the health insurance ought to be cheering for this one, as it would be quite a giveaway to them at the expense of those who continue to work, most likely.

....And yet, I am one of the only ones here who is consistently blamed for alterior motives.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

Ah, but you already are footing the bill in so many ways. When health care providers aren't reimbursed the expense is added to their cost of doing business. Insured and paying patients pay more!

Health care for the indigent is much cheaper in clinics than emergency rooms.

Correct - cost shifting is a major reason for expensive healthcare, but at least I have the option right now to buy an inexepensive catastrophic plan if that's all I want, but if universal care is implemented, I am NOT going to be able to evade my additional $10,000 tax bill.

Cost shifting will be even WORSE in a universalized implementation.. Especially the kind that offers unlimited benefits and no out of pocket responsibility to recipients.

 

[ziggy29]

Correct - cost shifting is a major reason for expensive healthcare, but at least I have the option right now to buy an inexepensive catastrophic plan if that's all I want, but if universal care is implemented, I am NOT going to be able to evade my additional $10,000 tax bill.

That's one of my greatest concerns. I don't want to pay for a $10,000 per year Cadillac plan. I'd rather buy a $3,000 Chevy plan that allows me to self-insure for small boo-boos and only kicks in for the big stuff.

Would consumers have such an option?

This is my biggest beef with COBRA, too. Usually employers offer high-end medical coverage which can cost $1000 a month on COBRA. It would be nice if one could opt for an HDHP under COBRA and still have preexisting conditions covered.

 

[Trek]

Correct - cost shifting is a major reason for expensive healthcare, but at least I have the option right now to buy an inexepensive catastrophic plan if that's all I want, but if universal care is implemented, I am NOT going to be able to evade my additional $10,000 tax bill.

Cost shifting will be even WORSE in a universalized implementation.. Especially the kind that offers unlimited benefits and no out of pocket responsibility to recipients.

So now you're trying to convince people that Obama's plan will cause everyone to have a $10,000 tax bill, possibly have to sell their home and might as well suffocate their parents since they will be in so much misery and pain for years waiting for a hip just like all the poor Canadians.

Can't bring up a thread mentioning any kind of alternative health care options around here without getting the threads dragged down by the same old tired scare tactics and mis-information.

Might as well lock this one up mods.

 

[ziggy29]

So now you're trying to convince people that Obama's plan will cause everyone to have a $10,000 tax bill, possibly have to sell their home and might as well suffocate their parents since they will be in so much misery and pain for years waiting for a hip just like all the poor Canadians.

Depending on what is covered and how much, the real cost could be close to $10,000 per household. Granted, much of that would not come from direct premium payments (most likely), but that could still be the cost. Put another way, the sum of taxes plus premiums could easily approach $10,000 per family per year for comprehensive, low-deductible health plans.

If there are options to self-insure the small stuff with larger deductibles and copays, then it wouldn't need to be $10K per year. But yes, the "Cadillac" plans many employers have DO cost in the vicinity of $10,000 per year. That's not FUD, that's fact. The real question here would be: is the "required" coverage going to be as comprehensive as most employer plans? If so, $10,000 per family is NOT a stretch -- at least in terms of total costs.

 

[mykidslovedogs]

So now you're trying to convince people that Obama's plan will cause everyone to have a $10,000 tax bill, possibly have to sell their home and might as well suffocate their parents since they will be in so much misery and pain for years waiting for a hip just like all the poor Canadians.

Can't bring up a thread mentioning any kind of alternative health care options around here without getting the threads dragged down by the same old tired scare tactics and mis-information.

Might as well lock this one up mods.

Not scare tactics, but a realistic possibility, and no, I don't think it will happen to everyone...but only the middle class and wealthier Americans. If you dig into the history of Canada's universalized system, you'll find that within 4 years of implementation, income taxes went up something like 40% after implementation.. something to think about.... (I'd have to go back and get the exact figures...if anyone is interested.)


Go ahead and lock the thread.....censorship is a typical solution from left-wingers who want to shut up anyone who has a different opinion or concern that they want to put out to the public.

 

[megacorp-firee]

SPENDING SOMEONE ELSES MONEY! It's interesting that any of our LBYM crowd would advocate turning over more of our tax dollars over to the [-]drunken sailors[/-] lawmakers in congress. They are a mirror of our society .... in it's worse incarnation. SPEND SPEND SPEND... and don't worry about where it's coming from ('after all it's NOT OUR MONEY').

If they (congress) had shown a history of wise spending I would feel different. However, when they tack pork barrel bills onto needed legislation so they can get a bridge to no where built in their district. I have to think twice about letting these [-]idiots[/-] esteemed legistators vote us into another PAY NOW and PAY LATER scheme ... so they can get re-elected and line their cronies pockets.

I am all for providing needed services for society. But it has to be built on priorities and affordability. PLEASE DON'T take that attitude that
' it's going to be PAID FOR BY THE GOVERNMENT' ... we have to quit being the ATM for these guys in Washington.

end of rant. ... steps off soapbox

 

[unclemick]

I would like to see a Deming or Taguchi type examination or even a dynamic symulation model conducted by those who have no dog in the fight:

Say some computer literate retired Singaphore civil servants.

heh heh heh - 'The Red Bead Experiment' updated to the computer age. BTY - the slosh model said at Cat. 3 or higher the levee's would break. Then came Katrina. My emotions pick stocks/sometimes asset classes - but my retirement rides with Vanguard's computer rebalancing Target Retirement - hint, hint, hint .

 

[Cut-Throat]

I want everyone to have coverage just as much as you, but Obama is promising the world here...a good way to get lots of votes, but where is the money going to come from?

The same place the money came from for the war in Iraq!