Pre-Existing Conditions & Health Insurance

[youbet]

Yes, I suppose it's a thesis, but aside from any relationship to charity, I'm saying (just to be clear) that Atlas Shrugged is not a discussion and that it is insulting. Because Ayn Rand used the device of making her characters with views she opposed into really despicable people. I simply disagreed with her forthright writings on philosophy, but I hated Atlas Shrugged.

I agree to the extent that Atlas Shrugged uses "over the top" characterizations in much the same way that Michael Moore does in his so-called "documentaries." Lots of examples of this style of writing representing many viewpoints.

 

[GregLee]

I agree to the extend that Atlas Shrugged uses "over the top" characterizations in much the same way that Michael Moore does in his so-called "documentaries."

That's a reasonable comparison. I can't stand Michael Moore.

 

[Khan]

We can really lower the costs of medical care if we simply allow the unworthy to die.

 

[dgoldenz]

How to Get Group Health Insurance Coverage Through a Membership Organization
TJ

The author of that article has no idea what they're talking about. I looked at her bio, she's a property and casualty agent, so that would explain her lack of understanding. I bet she sells a whole lot of Assurant Right Start policies though!

 

[Peter]

The author of that article has no idea what they're talking about.

Isn't this a membership program?

IEEE - IEEE Insurance Services

Peter

 

[dgoldenz]

Isn't this a membership program?

IEEE - IEEE Insurance Services

Peter

This sounds great, sign me right up. I wonder if they've ever paid a single claim:

That's exactly why the $2,000,000 Catastrophe Major Medical Insurance Plan has been designed-TO TAKE OVER WHEN YOUR BASIC HEALTH INSURANCE RUNS SHORT-to help protect you when your basic health insurance plan limits your coverage and after you have met your $25,000 or $50,000 deductible.

Who Is Eligible?
All members in good standing who are U.S. residents are eligible to apply for member or spouse coverage, regardless of age, as well as their unmarried dependent children typically under age 21 (age 27 if in school full-time), provided each applicant is covered by a basic major medical plan (including an HMO or PPO) or Medicare parts A and B. (Dependent child ages vary by state.) (See Pre-Existing Conditions Limitation further on.)

The plan is not available in Arizona, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Vermont, Washington state, or Canada and other foreign countries. (A state specific plan is available for residents of NY. Please call the Administrator.)

How This Plan Works
This Plan is designed to help provide financial protection for extraordinary medical expenses not covered by your current medical insurance plan, or Medicare.

 

[ERD50]

This sounds great, sign me right up. I wonder if they've ever paid a single claim:

Interesting, it looks like other than short term policies, everything is 'supplemental', with all those ifs, ands, buts.

I guess I don't feel too bad letting my membership lapse about 30 years ago.

One of my backup plans was to try to get coverage by getting on the payroll (even if I had to pay him) of a small business owner I know. We had discussed, he was open to it, but who knows if I really had to take him up on it.

-ERD50

 

[dgoldenz]

Interesting, it looks like other than short term policies, everything is 'supplemental', with all those ifs, ands, buts.

I guess I don't feel too bad letting my membership lapse about 30 years ago.

One of my backup plans was to try to get coverage by getting on the payroll (even if I had to pay him) of a small business owner I know. We had discussed, he was open to it, but who knows if I really had to take him up on it.

-ERD50

That's how most of these associations work. They're either supplemental or limited benefit policies at a ridiculous price for what you get.

Like I said, you can't just join an association and get group health insurance (or major medical at least, which is what everyone wants). There are some states that will let you have a one-person group or let you use association membership to do a one-person group, but there still has to be an actual business that you own and work full time on if trying to set it up that way. This could have been fixed in the healthcare bill by allowing associations to have group health, but it wasn't included because politicians don't know anything about how health insurance works.

 

[Animorph]

I'm retired and age 56 now. I have insurance through DW's job, she's younger. I have enough health issues that I'm pretty sure I'd be denied individual insurance when DW retires and COBRA runs out. If I had been paying my own insurance instead of getting it through w*rk (mine or DW's) I'd be able to just continue it until I hit 65. But because it's though work, all I can do is COBRA for a short time and then join a high-risk pool. That doesn't sound like good coverage or reasonable cost. Kind of makes it tough to ER just now. I'm hoping DW decides to keep working until 2014 and the new healthcare law survives.

 

[teejayevans]

I have enough health issues that I'm pretty sure I'd be denied individual insurance But because it's though work, all I can do is COBRA for a short time and then join a high-risk pool. That doesn't sound like good coverage or reasonable cost. Kind of makes it tough to ER just now. I'm hoping DW decides to keep working until 2014 and the new healthcare law survives.

Ditto, if the Dems moved up the benefits to 2011, they wouldn't have half the problems their having. Before you do COBRA, you should check to see if you can get individual insurance first, because it would be better to lock in coverage IF you can.
TJ

 

[dgoldenz]

Ditto, if the Dems moved up the benefits to 2011, they wouldn't have half the problems their having. Before you do COBRA, you should check to see if you can get individual insurance first, because it would be better to lock in coverage IF you can.
TJ

You're right, they'd have double the amount of problems when everyone's rates went from $500/month to $1500/month.

 

[LuvSouth]

Our healthcare system puts profit before people life. That's what business is all about. This is fundamental flaw of the system. Unless a universal basic healthcare system is in place, we'll continue to have run away costs and more people without access to affordable healthcare.

The US is the only developed country that does not have universal health care !
I wonder what it's like if Canada did not have universal health care ...

 

[travelover]

The US is the only developed country that does not have universal health care !
I wonder what it's like if Canada did not have universal health care ...

We have been informed by our politicians that you Canadians are miserable, but just don't have enough sense to realize it.

 

[wanaberetiree]

We have been informed by our politicians that you Canadians are miserable, but just don't have enough sense to realize it.

I love that!!! Exactly, we actually don't know why exactly, but we trust our politicians and do not like Canadian (or for the same Australian and others) health care systems.

 

[LuvSouth]

Health care has never been a big issue for Canadians as everyone has access to health care covered by the provincial governments.

The cost is high to be hospitalized in the US, that's why Canadians sometimes top up their medical coverage when they travel to the US.

 

[LuvSouth]

For the vast majority of people, there is no amount of hard work and saving that will pay for, say, cancer treatment, which can very easily run into 7 figures.

Peter

Cancer treatment is also covered by the health care system in Canada, but there are some "new" drugs that are not approved by Health Canada yet then the patients will have to pay out of pocket.

It is more comfortable to ER in Canada because one doesn't have to worry about the 7 figure cost of treatment, it's like a time bomb.

I once tried a few websites for quotes to top up the Canadian coverage for 6 months (snowbird in the States), I kind of recall it costs about $300 to 400 for 6 months top up coverage, and depending on age, it increases to $600-800, then the next age group is over $1200, then $2700 ... something like that, based on no pre existing condition though.

 

[samclem]

Health care has never been a big issue for Canadians as everyone has access to health care covered by the provincial governments.

You guys have provincial governments to provide your healthcare? That's great! I thought that maybe it was provided by taxpayers.

Canada is really fortunate to have a neighbor whose medical system provides research money that develops new drugs and medical equipment that can then be purchased for use in Canada at cut rate prices. And, any Canadian who needs treatment and can pay for it can drive right across the border and get the world's most advanced medical care. US citizens don't have such a neighbor.

If I were Canadian, I'd probably enjoy the free ride along with my countrymen, realizing that the Canadian system works (to the degree it does) in no small part due to the spillover benefits that come from my southern neighbor.

 

[LuvSouth]

Well, money from the provincial government of course comes from the taxpayers.

As far as I know, doctors in Canada gets lower pay than their US counterparts. That might explain one of the reasons why it costs so much in the US.

Canadians also pay higher income taxes to fund all these social programmes such as universal health care, dental care (for the poor such as those on social assistance).

One of the reasons that the Canadian health care system works is we have the Canada Health Act (complicated). In short, the provincial governments regulate the charges of doctors, item by item, from check up to procedures in the hospitals. On the other hand, doctors in the US make much more money than Canadian doctors, that might explain why it's so expensive to pay for the medicare.

Every time we travel to the States, we top up our medical insurance as we know if something happens to us such as accidents, it will drive us broke ... And we simply can't afford it !

I think the US has a great system overall such as R&D, but for some reason I still think health care reform in the US is the right step, though it is world's away from Canada in terms of univeral health care.

 

[DblDoc]

You guys have provincial governments to provide your healthcare? That's great! I thought that maybe it was provided by taxpayers.

Canada is really fortunate to have a neighbor whose medical system spends billions on advertisements and provides research money that develops expensive new drugs of marginal benefit and expensive medical equipment that is overused but can then be purchased for use in Canada at [-]cut rate[/-] market prices. And, any Canadian who needs treatment and can pay for it can drive right across the border and get the world's most [-]advanced[/-] expensive and inefficient medical care. US citizens don't have such a neighbor. (Actually you too could drive over the border and get care, less expensively, in the Great White North, although you might have to wait unless it is truly an emergency)

If I were Canadian, I'd probably enjoy the free ride along with my countrymen, realizing that the Canadian system works (to the degree it does) in no small part due to the spillover benefits that come from my southern neighbor. And that goes for the other 37 countries who provide better quality health care than the US does for their citizens...

There, fixed some of it for you.

DD

 

[samclem]

If I were Canadian, I'd probably enjoy the free ride along with my countrymen, realizing that the Canadian system works (to the degree it does) in no small part due to the spillover benefits that come from my southern neighbor. And that goes for the other 37 countries who provide better quality health care than the US does for their citizens...

I agree, they all benefit from the spiilover of new developments that come from the US health care "system."

There's no doubt that the US health care "system" is very wasteful. There's also no doubt that the US system provides considerable tangible benefits to Canadians and many other countries. Once our system is more like theirs and the profit motive is reduced, I'd expect the pace of US medical innovation to closely parallel Canada's. And Mexico's.

 

[LuvSouth]

Canadians in the States are so "afraid" of going to the hospitals in the States because as soon as the hospitals find out we have top up medical insurance, the hospitals treat us like "king", no exegeration here at all !

With just a minor medical need, the hospital would do a series of tests (covered by the top up medical insurance), and insists us to stay longer for "observation", also covered by the top up medical insurance.

The matter of fact is the US economy is profit driven capitalism whereas Canada is a mixed economy where social programmes are provided by the governments through tax payers.

No wonder the healthcare in the States is so expensive: The rich get better care whereas the poor are left to die ...

Do you know how expensive to care for a patient who has kidney failure that needs peritoneal or hemo dialysis ? In Canada, we have a health network that will take care of patients, and after the surgery, depending on the choice (peritoneal or hemo), if the patient chose peritoneal analysis, the family will get training and medical supply will be shipped to the patient's home; If for hemo dialysis, the patient will visit the hospital twice a week for the hospital to perform hemo dialysis for him/her.

Plus the patients will get regular scheduled blood test at the hospital or some satellite clinic.

All of the above care (and others that I didn't write up such as the health care system in Canada will send some one to the patient's home to perform peritoneal dialysis at noon, hygiene care twice a week if needed) costs the patient nothing for life.

 

[LuvSouth]

The words "free ride" or "spillover benefit" are debatable here !

There are only a very tiny portion of Canadians who would cover over to the States for treatment, and they pay the market price, so do other people who come from all over the world.

If the hospitals don't want to "benefit" Canadians and other people, don't want to give a smaller number of Canadians and other people "free ride", they (the hospital) can simply shut the door, not accept new patients !

There's no "free ride" or "spillover benefit", it is market driven. If I could get treatment in hospital in the States for free, I would definitely call it a "free ride".

It's the system in the States that don't look after their own citizen ... universally ... and it's time the system needs fixed.

 

[travelover]

.............

It's the system in the States that don't look after their own citizen ... universally ... and it's time the system needs fixed.

Not to worry. We just had an election and it is going to be fixed right away.

 

[LuvSouth]

Not to worry. We just had an election and it is going to be fixed right away.

I am seeing light at the end of the tunnel for the gereral public in the US. But it will take time to get it fixed, not right way !

Here are the problems:
- Profit driven hospitals in existence
- Much higher costs to get the same medical care compared to Canada
- Unnecessary procedures performed in the hospitals for extra profit
- Lower income tax in the States, meaning lower revenue for the government
- Large population: 9 times more population than Canada
- Bigger budget for defence

Why it works in Canada:
- Non profit, governments run hospitals, no exception
- Lower costs per procedures compared to the States
- No unnecessary procedures will be performed (Canadians are not treated like "kings" as they are in hospitals in the States)
- Higher income tax, meaning higher revenue for the governments
- Population: 9 times less
- Smaller budget for defence (this might be the spillover benefit from the States as we don't have to spend $ on nuclear weapons ...)

So, I think it will take time to get it fixed ...

 

[MichaelB]

I am seeing light at the end of the tunnel for the gereral public in the US. But it will take time to get it fixed, not right way !

It's the headlight of a train and it's coming straight at us...